Metal Gear Solid. The Phantom pain.

FoxEye said:
Right well, after four hours, I still haven't managed the first mission :p Just trying to figure the AI out. I swear I'm getting spotted a lot by stuff that's round corners, yet sometimes I can sneak right past a soldier's nose in plain view with no cover. I must not be understanding the rules of stealth yet.

Using his mechanical arm to lure an enemy toward you... how is that supposed to help? There doesn't appear to be a way to do a takedown from behind cover.... so, useless?

Also I *hate* how if I restart a checkpoint, all the enemies stay marked. This feels like cheating, and means I have to restart the mission instead, losing a lot more progress. I wish there was a way to clear marked enemies when you reload a checkpoint, but there isn't :( It's lame. Especially because I'm trying to do this without killing soldiers, or being spotted (proper stealth).
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You can perform a corner take down which is quite handy. The knock is also good for splitting groups of guards up. Remember when performing take downs or tranq shots that enemies wake up after 4 minutes or so. My tactic if not fultoning them away was hide the body, kick them to wake them up then perform a full CQC takedown as I read online that this keeps them down for a good 10 minutes.
 
FoxEye said:
Right well, after four hours, I still haven't managed the first mission :p Just trying to figure the AI out. I swear I'm getting spotted a lot by stuff that's round corners, yet sometimes I can sneak right past a soldier's nose in plain view with no cover. I must not be understanding the rules of stealth yet.

Using his mechanical arm to lure an enemy toward you... how is that supposed to help? There doesn't appear to be a way to do a takedown from behind cover.... so, useless?

Also I *hate* how if I restart a checkpoint, all the enemies stay marked. This feels like cheating, and means I have to restart the mission instead, losing a lot more progress. I wish there was a way to clear marked enemies when you reload a checkpoint, but there isn't :( It's lame. Especially because I'm trying to do this without killing soldiers, or being spotted (proper stealth).
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You can set it in game to not mark the enemy at all so you have to rely on your wits and be stealthy. I wouldn't recommend that though if it's taken you 4 hours on the first mission.

I've not played the game for over a month now, just couldn't get back into it.. I am currently in Africa in game and using Quiet as my companion, I'll try and see if I can get back into it at some points as I really want to finish it. I'm sure when MGO comes this month it'll be more fulfilling.
 
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OK, tried mission 2 and I've learned some more things:

Killing enemies is pointless. For every one you kill, the game sends a reinforcement to take his place. Those reinforcements arrive within five minutes to boot. They've copied Far Cry/ Crysis, and I was equally frustrated with infinite re-spawning enemies there.

But that leads me to a problem... as much as I try I can't do the missions without being spotted. Too many guards, their patrols overlap, they go round in twos... all realistic, but how the hell are you supposed to avoid being spotted? They're clustered really close together and can see for bloody miles.

Now you can sneak up on a lone guard 50% of the time, but you can't sneak up on two of them :/ Because even if you hold up or knock out the first, the 2nd will start shooting, blowing your cover.

I've played all the previous MGS games and they were all 1000% easier to avoid being spotted. In this one it's nigh on impossible (for me). And that means D rankings or below, sadly. Even Ocelot mocks me at the end of the mission. "Surely you can do better than that?" Bar steward.
 
It's not as difficult as you make out, firstly you should be prone when in close proximity to enemies as this greatly reduces the chances of you being spotted. Use your silenced tranquiliser pistol so you don't alert enemies, if you bodyshoot a group of enemies in close succession they will all start dropping after 20 seconds or so, by the time one spots his friend dropping he will drop before he has time to react. Headshots with the tranq pistol are instant and will draw nearby enemies to investigate their fallen friends satus, you can then headshot these in turn. If you approach from behind when crouched you can usually do a successful close quarter combat manoeuvre putting them in a stranglehold is probably best as it is silent and gives you the opportunity to interrogate them before putting them to sleep, you can often do this with an enemy who is trailing a friend and then finish off his friend afterwards. The cardboard box is also worth experimenting with, generally if you are sensible and don't move when spotted the enemy will come over to investigate and you can then either headshot them or CQC, it's very useful with vehicles if you use D-Horse as a roadblock and sit in your box at the side of the road a few meters in front, the vehicle will stop at your position and you can extract it without being spotted. Killing is pointless you are much better off extracting all incapacitated enemies so they strengthen your base facilities, I have completed the game non lethally the only exceptions being helicopters and where enemies have thrown grenades and finished off their sleeping colleagues who were awaiting extraction - vehicles including tanks can be extracted if you sneak up on them.

Each major outpost will have a radio, destroying this will stop the ability for reinforcements to be called. If you do trigger an alert just hide and they will eventually give up looking for you.
 
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It will click for you eventually. It is nowhere near as hard as you currently think it is:)

It is definitely hard to avoid detection during the day in open ground though. Much better to wait until night.
 
Well, mission 5 down (extract traitor from barracks). Got spotted about 15 times. Killed everyone (seriously, Snake almost /can't/ die in a firefight, it's insane how much you can just stand there and take hits).

Rank: D :'(

There is just no bloody way I can stealth in this game. And killing them all is 100% not satisfying in the slightest. Feels like a cop out :(

One stupid thing I really hate is how the game keeps changing the brightness (or adding bloom) when I'm moving from shadows to light, to frankly insanely unrealistic degrees. Like when you're inside a dark room, and trying to see what's outside (in daylight), the game turns the bloom up until I can't see ****. Standing right at the door and looking out and it's just a complete white-out.

I know what they're trying to do (simulate eyes adjusting to darkness). But if I'm standing next to the boody door I should be able to see what's outside. The game says I can't, however, and so I have no choice but to walk outside completely blind as to what's there. Cost me a mission earlier for this very reason. Got inside, got hostage, go to exit: can't see ****. Completely white screen. Walk out, straight into patrol. Thanks, game.
 
FoxEye said:
There is just no bloody way I can stealth in this game. And killing them all is 100% not satisfying in the slightest. Feels like a cop out :(
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You're doing something wrong, take your time and use the tools available, was my previous post not any help? Enemies are resources to be extracted and made use of in strengthening your base, developing new items, processing materials and undertaking missions to gain further resources, killing them is waste and will hold you back.

FoxEye said:
But if I'm standing next to the boody door I should be able to see what's outside. The game says I can't, however, and so I have no choice but to walk outside completely blind as to what's there. Cost me a mission earlier for this very reason. Got inside, got hostage, go to exit: can't see ****. Completely white screen. Walk out, straight into patrol. Thanks, game.
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Develop and use the Sonar function for your prosthetic arm, this will help a lot with these situations but more importantly to identify and clear out enemies from positions before you start exploring buildings etc.
 
A lot of the earlier missions are designed as such that you cant 100% them until you have later upgrades. Means theres value in replaying old missions to get those sub missions that you couldnt get originally.

Example would be something with a sub ojbective to grab a materials shipping container, which you cant do until latyer when you have an upgraded fulton.

Im still enjoying the game, i find that using Quiet as your buddy makes the game ridiculously easy, and shes a bit annoying when shes just humming a little tune in your earpiece while scouting an outpost.

Likewise i find DDog really annoying that he just openly runs past people, always opens doors behind me which gives me a panic attack :p.

One question ive wondered is there any reason to choose characters other than snake for the mission? I see i can choose from a lot of my grunts and wonder what the reason would be?
 
I've given up on stealth now. I'm just shooting everybody in the head. The game gives me a **** rank, but the missions get done :p

I can't stealth in this game to save my life. I get spotted crouching in shadows. I get spotted crawling in long grass. I've been spotted (and shot) by a guy on the other side of a chest high wall. The game just hates me :p

So if that's how it wants to play it, fine, I'll shoot every thing that moves instead :p Snake is basically invincible on Normal difficulty. He just can't die.

e: Oh and this is the first MGS that I know of that allows you to run away from boss battles, effectively skipping them.

"Snake, use the rocket launcher!"
Me: Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.
"Looks like they've gone."
Me: \o/
 
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FoxEye said:
I've given up on stealth now. I'm just shooting everybody in the head. The game gives me a **** rank, but the missions get done :p

I can't stealth in this game to save my life. I get spotted crouching in shadows. I get spotted crawling in long grass. I've been spotted (and shot) by a guy on the other side of a chest high wall. The game just hates me :p

So if that's how it wants to play it, fine, I'll shoot every thing that moves instead :p Snake is basically invincible on Normal difficulty. He just can't die.

e: Oh and this is the first MGS that I know of that allows you to run away from boss battles, effectively skipping them.

"Snake, use the rocket launcher!"
Me: Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.
"Looks like they've gone."
Me: \o/
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This is completely bizarre, I love this game because of the stealth. Sounds like your game is broken??
 
I don't think my game is broken I just don't think I can do it.

I'll summarise my problems in a nutshell. It all boils down to the fact that I keep getting spotted attempting to remove a guard.

The trouble is the game is already - by mission 6 no less - packing 6-8 soldiers into a very small area. Normally in groups of two, but groups of three are cropping up as well.

This means that whatever I do, somebody will spot me doing it.

1. Tranquilliser gun. I can headshot the first guy, but this alerts the remaining two, and I can't headshot them at all, so they inevitably wake the first guy up, and also sound the alarm. Game over (or Snake murder rampage time :p)

2. CQC. This for me is a complete waste of time because in groups of 2-3 soldiers you just cannot CQC them. You'll go straight into combat and your cover is blown immediately. Even if you do CQC they only stay down for 2-4 minutes, after which they will wake up and sound the alarm.

3. Hold up. Again you can't hold up more than 1 soldier at a time. Normally because they are facing each other, meaning there is no angle where you can be behind both of them. Sneaking up on two soldiers facing each other is also for me not possible. Invariably one will spot me.

I tried using the cardboard box and I get spotted in that too. Not really sure how it works in this compared to previous games, but soldiers who get fairly near to the box will immediately sound the alarm, and start shooting.

But basically like I said I just can't deal with groups of 2-3 soldiers, as no matter what I do one will sound the alarm and bring the whole base down on me.
 
FoxEye said:
The trouble is the game is already - by mission 6 no less - packing 6-8 soldiers into a very small area. Normally in groups of two, but groups of three are cropping up as well.
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Use the tools you have to try and lure one guard out, be it by throwing a magazine near them (you have an infinite amount), or the knocking feature of your arm. When they move to investigate grab onto them, ask them what they know and where there friends are to get more info then choke them out. Fulton them to get rid of the body (around 50 meters away from people to be safe in daylight, can be shorter at night)... sorted :)

If you're wanting to stealth generally I found just being a bit more patient was fine. Either mark and avoid, or just lure them and dispose of them.
 
Epoch said:
Use the tools you have to try and lure one guard out, be it by throwing a magazine near them (you have an infinite amount), or the knocking feature of your arm. When they move to investigate grab onto them, ask them what they know and where there friends are to get more info then choke them out. Fulton them to get rid of the body (around 50 meters away from people to be safe in daylight, can be shorter at night)... sorted :)

If you're wanting to stealth generally I found just being a bit more patient was fine. Either mark and avoid, or just lure them and dispose of them.
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I've not once been successful in separating groups of two or three. You either get all of them or none of them.

Yes I've thrown the magazines. What I found is whoever hears it says "I've heard something, going to investigate." Then the other soldiers near him go into alert and follow him to check it out.

So again, the problems is dealing with two/three soldiers simultaneously (although now on the move and searching for you).
 
FoxEye said:
I've not once been successful in separating groups of two or three. You either get all of them or none of them.

Yes I've thrown the magazines. What I found is whoever hears it says "I've heard something, going to investigate." Then the other soldiers near him go into alert and follow him to check it out.

So again, the problems is dealing with two/three soldiers simultaneously (although now on the move and searching for you).
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What you can do here is either try and get used to their hearing range and attempt to only be closer to one guard than the other (maybe use the SONAR?) then make the noise. You can lure them as far out as you'd like by chaining this. If you have two people out, when they investigate they'll report on their radio that they found nothing and walk back to where they were. You can grab the guard who is behind the other (since they tend to walk in a line rather than side by side). The front guard wont notice you grabbing the guy behind him.
 
The game definitely gets easier as it goes along.

Sleep grenades, tranquillizing sniper rifles, Quiet etc.

I think I've logged 100 hours on it now. 'Completed it' a while ago but was doing a few mopping up of some bits.

82% complete
 
FoxEye said:
I tried this with hold-ups, but the guy in front always notices and turns around. I also tried CQC slams, and again the guy in front notices. After that I figured they'd notice anything.
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They shouldn't do, you must be approaching too noisily or something.

Usually when there are two guards together, they have patrol patterns and one tends to stay slightly behind the other when they both stop. If you grab one from behind the one furthest ahead won't realise

Unless you time it badly.
 
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