Monaco Grand Prix 2012, Monte Carlo - Race 6/20

The Ferrari and Williams duo's are interesting. They both have 1 driver absolutely riding the crest of a wave (Maldonado from winning, Alonso from having a bunch of epic races in a car people thought would struggle to even score points), while the other driver is, well, not performing.

Massa looks to be turning a corner, or at least showing some sort of ability to keep up. But Senna is just being completely destroyed. Williams most definately don't have a '1 driver' setup or the ability or funds to have focused all their efforts on developing the car for Maldonado, so the difference between the Williams duo is purely pace and confidence.
 
Where was Maldonado set to finish in Malaysia before his car gave up? I'm trying to use the Arknor Method™ to work out how many points he could actually have had about now.
 
I'm assuming though, that Senna does bring heaps of cash to the team.
The "Senna" name alone must be worth £Ms in sponsorship.
 
Was going to wait for P3 results but so far it seems to be Lotus, Williams, Mclaren and Ferrari all very close. However Redbull , Merc and Sauber are there or thereabouts as well!
 
Isn't Maldanado only 0.9 seconds ahead of Senna but he was on the option not the prime? Likewise, there is a little thing called, Senna having a new car from scratch having to set it up from scratch while Maldanado is using basically his fantastically working car from last race?

He closed from 2 seconds behind him to 1 from p1 to p2, which is what you expect of a car going from completely new to zero'ing in on a workable setup?

Looking at Q2 at Aussie and Malaysia, they are 2-3 tenths apart, but this year 2-3 tenths(often the gap between Hamilton and button) in a midtable team is the difference between getting to Q3 and being left in Q2. Even so Senna did badly in the first race, Maldanado also went backwards, but in Malay Senna did finished 6th after starting behind Maldanado.

China, qualified right on top of each other, Senna finished in the points just ahead of Maldanado.

Bahrain, bad for both, Spain is the ONLY race where they've had significantly different races and well, he got knocked off the track.

Sorry there is nothing at all beyond a single race to suggest Maldanado is significantly outdriving that car over Senna, because in 2-3 races he's qualified marginally behind and finished ahead of Maldanado.

One terrible qualifying put him way way back and cost him the race, he was doing fairly well when he was knocked off wasn't he, and every top driver has been in the same situation this year in at least one race.
 
We shall have to wait and see what happens at Monaco. This circuit requires a lot of driver skill (its not one of those tracks where you can leave your foot on the throttle and let the car do the work). A good driver on this track, can make the difference.
 
Weebull said:
Where was Maldonado set to finish in Malaysia before his car gave up? I'm trying to use the Arknor Method™ to work out how many points he could actually have had about now.
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He was in the points wasn't he? I know he was about 6th or something in Australia too before stuffing it in the wall on the last lap.

sunama said:
I'm assuming though, that Senna does bring heaps of cash to the team.
The "Senna" name alone must be worth £Ms in sponsorship.
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I don't think it does. The major 'pay' seat in that team is Maldonados, and its well documented. £29,400,000 from PDVSA alone. The Senna name is only valuable if someone is willing to pay for it, and I seriously doubt anyone is paying nearly as much as the Venezuelan government is currently splurging on world motorsport. Just look at GP2. One Venezuelan driver couldn't get a drive, so the government bought a whole team to put him in instead.
 
He was 10th in Malaysia before it blew on the second last lap, was 6th in Australia too.

Maldonardo was the proper pay driver, as you pointed out, when Senna is the potential sponsors dream, without the racing luck so far.
 
In odd news, there has just been a controlled explosion of a suspect device, described as 'a box of unknown electrical equipment', which was found in the paddock.
 
Just watching the classic Monaco 2008 highlights. Man that was a fantastic race.

Weird though - Hamilton driving the socks of the car (had forgotten how good he could be), grooved tyres, re-fuelling, "wiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnssssssssssss" at the end...seems like so long ago.
 
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Was that the race where JA did the classic:

'And Lewis Hamilton................

*several children are born, live long, satifying lives and are buried*

.............

*the sun finally goes supernova*

... WIIIIINNNNNS!"
 
Skeeter said:
The Senna name is only valuable if someone is willing to pay for it, ...
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But that goes for anything in life.

If I were a marketing bod at Williams (before the season started), I would find it a lot easier to get bigger sums of money with Senna in my team. How? I would focus on the Senna name.

"We have a fantastic new driver - the nephew of one of the most loved F1 drivers of all time. The whole of Brazil (as well as the rest of the World) are watching him and there is going to be massive focus on Senna. We think that we are going to have a great car this year and with Senna in it, your name on our car is going to get serious (advertising) air-time."

I would much rather market Senna, than most other drivers (of Senna's calibre). That name is a marketing mans dream. The other big name is Schumacher. If Schumacher's child attempts to go in F1, that name on its own will help attract a lot of attention. Some drivers (believe it or not), get their first chance in F1 or in GP2, purely on the basis of their name.
 
pingwing said:
He was 10th in Malaysia before it blew on the second last lap, was 6th in Australia too.

Maldonardo was the proper pay driver, as you pointed out, when Senna is the potential sponsors dream, without the racing luck so far.
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Problem is, in Malaysia Senna was 6th and started two places behind Maldanado, so simply was having a much better drive, even had he finished 10th and Australia it wasn't a car failure or someone hitting him, just his own mistake.

You aren't talking about many more points considering he got 25 of his 29 in one race and the other points he may have had, wouldn't have put him much further ahead.

Very harsh to criticise Senna this year for finishing better than Maldanado twice while qualifying behind him. He was ahead of him in Bahrain as he finished but I'm not sure why Maldanado didn't finish that one, I think it was car failure but can't remember. Neither did well anyway, take Spain out of the equation and Maldanado is the faster qualifier and Senna has outperformed him over the 4 races. One win and uber points doesn't suddenly make Senna awful.

This year will be odd, Schumi has certainly been competitive in race and very much qualifying pace over Rossberg, but mostly car reliability and one stupid mistake means he's got almost nothing.

Because of the way the season is going, vast differences between which car is doing well in which race, vast differences in luck with tyres, we've already seen different winners, different teams competiting in each race and bad luck taking so many points off Hamilton and Schumi. This season to a certain degree almost anyone can fluke one win, while being almost completely uncompetitive in most other races.
 
sunama said:
But that goes for anything in life.

If I were a marketing bod at Williams (before the season started), I would find it a lot easier to get bigger sums of money with Senna in my team. How? I would focus on the Senna name.

"We have a fantastic new driver - the nephew of one of the most loved F1 drivers of all time. The whole of Brazil (as well as the rest of the World) are watching him and there is going to be massive focus on Senna. We think that we are going to have a great car this year and with Senna in it, your name on our car is going to get serious (advertising) air-time."

I would much rather market Senna, than most other drivers (of Senna's calibre). That name is a marketing mans dream. The other big name is Schumacher. If Schumacher's child attempts to go in F1, that name on its own will help attract a lot of attention. Some drivers (believe it or not), get their first chance in F1 or in GP2, purely on the basis of their name.
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Yeah, I get what your saying, and its perfectly valid. But in Williams it definitely seems like Maldonado is bringing in tha major money. Do we even know who Senna's big sponsors are? Meanwhile PDVSA and Venezuela are plastered all over the car...
 
Ok, this has been bugging me all day, so time for a Countdown challenge.

"One from the top, and 5 from anywhere else please Carol"

Team Lotus (1958-1994) - 491 races
Pacific Team Lotus (1995) - 17 races
Lotus Racing (2010) - 19 races
Team Lotus (2011) - 19 races
Lotus Renault GP (2011) - 19 races
Lotus F1 (2012) - 6 races

(Italics are when Lotus were not the name of the constructor)

How in the hell do you twist those numbers to make this weekend 'Lotus' 500th Grand Prix' in any way? Ignoring the fact that Genii Lotus have no claim to any of the Team Lotus history, the raw numbers don't even add up in any combination?

Just... :confused:
 
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Skeeter said:
Ok, this has been bugging me all day, so time for a Countdown challenge.

"One from the top, and 5 from anywhere else please Carol"

Team Lotus (1958-1994) - 491 races
Pacific Team Lotus (1995) - 17 races
Lotus Racing (2010) - 19 races
Team Lotus (2011) - 19 races
Lotus Renault GP (2011) - 19 races
Lotus F1 (2012) - 6 races

(Italics are when Lotus were not the name of the constructor)

How in the hell do you twist those numbers to make this weekend 'Lotus' 500th Grand Prix' in any way? Ignoring the fact that Genii Lotus have no claim to any of the Team Lotus history, the raw numbers don't even add up in any combination?

Just... :confused:
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It's not (as I posted earlier), its 500 for the team's lineage of Renault, Benetton and Toleman ;)

Confusingly funny, but since Toleman's entry into F1 in the 80's the team in its various guises have competed in 500 races.

drunkenmaster said:
Problem is, in Malaysia Senna was 6th and started two places behind Maldanado, so simply was having a much better drive, even had he finished 10th and Australia it wasn't a car failure or someone hitting him, just his own mistake.

You aren't talking about many more points considering he got 25 of his 29 in one race and the other points he may have had, wouldn't have put him much further ahead.

Very harsh to criticise Senna this year for finishing better than Maldanado twice while qualifying behind him. He was ahead of him in Bahrain as he finished but I'm not sure why Maldanado didn't finish that one, I think it was car failure but can't remember. Neither did well anyway, take Spain out of the equation and Maldanado is the faster qualifier and Senna has outperformed him over the 4 races. One win and uber points doesn't suddenly make Senna awful.

This year will be odd, Schumi has certainly been competitive in race and very much qualifying pace over Rossberg, but mostly car reliability and one stupid mistake means he's got almost nothing.

Because of the way the season is going, vast differences between which car is doing well in which race, vast differences in luck with tyres, we've already seen different winners, different teams competiting in each race and bad luck taking so many points off Hamilton and Schumi. This season to a certain degree almost anyone can fluke one win, while being almost completely uncompetitive in most other races.
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It is a normal media bandwagon to say one is better than the other, but Senna hasn't really set the world on fire in the last year (other than quali at spa), when Maldonardo has made a few mistakes but has had stronger showings. Aus anyone could have done what he did, riding a curb a little too hard to chase down Alonso is an understandable mistake in the same way Perez could have won in Malaysia if he hadn't spun it...

Over the course of the season we can make a better comparison, especially if Maldonardo rides his positivity now.

Oh and "tyre luck" isn't a factor, a teams ability to adapt and understand the tyres is something they can improve on...
 
sunama said:
I'm assuming though, that Senna does bring heaps of cash to the team.
The "Senna" name alone must be worth £Ms in sponsorship.
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Weirdly I don't know of a single person that cares about this senna when 90% of the f1 friends I have loved the original. Myself I couldn't careless either.

I think it's because he's not his son, I agree that is schumachers spawn joined f1 there would be some interest but like this senna if they were not on it from day one interest rapidly disappears. Like Damon when he was plodding along before his Williams break.

Jacques carried the name of probably the most popular Ferrari driver but he was lucky he joined the best team on the grid. I think that he doesn't show a tenth the talent of 3 times world champion senna means he isn't drawing in the sponsorship anything like Maldonado.
 
pingwing said:
It's not (as I posted earlier), its 500 for the team's lineage of Renault, Benetton and Toleman ;)

Confusingly funny, but since Toleman's entry into F1 in the 80's the team in its various guises have competed in 500 races.
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Some quick Wiki Maths makes this the 514th race for that team?

Toleman (1981 - 1985) - 70 Races
Benetton (1986-2001) - 260 Races
Renault (2002 - 2010) -159 Races
Lotus Renault (2011) - 19 Races
Lotus F1 (2012) - 6 Races

Now I'm completely confused :confused:
 
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