Monaco Grand Prix 2013, Monte Carlo - Race 6/19
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Will find out when the newspapers hit the stands tomorrow I guess
Pirelli do come across more and more as a cowboy outfit tbh.
Really? They seem very geared up for F1 and the investment they have made is huge. Did any other tyre supplier ever have a backup factory ready, and test the backup tyres alongside the normal ones to ensure they were the same?
Pirelli have done a great job. But they have been screwed firstly by what the FIA have asked them to provide within the retarded rules the FIA write, and now by the FIA dropping them in it over this test.
The cowboys in all of this are the FIA.
Soldato
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Wouldn't surprise me at all. Didn't Pirelli say one disadvantage of being the only tyre supplier is that if the Pirelli tyres fail in a race, non F1 fans might assume that Pirelli road tyres are rubbish and not want them on their car? I can see Pirelli thinking that the bonus of being in F1 isn't what they thought it was and that it's time for someone else to have a go.
Pirelli-gate surely? Seems they have been quite naive here. Of course Mercedes will say yes to an exclusive 3 day test to fix their tyre issues. Of course Red Bull and Ferrari will cry wolf. Of course the FIA will deny all knowledge. Everything points to Pirelli not having learned or understood the politics of F1 and everyone lining up to shaft them.
They have been asking teams for a test for over a year and nobody responded. The tyres are unknown and unmarked, the teams don't know what they are testing, so there is actually little tyre testing value in it for the team themselves.
Of course the other option is for Pirelli to run a current/1 year old car themselves, but the team have kicked up enough fuss about the 3 year old Renault already.
Soldato
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How do we know nobody responded? Have Mercedes or Pirelli said that? I know the FIA said that Pirelli had to ask each team but have the teams actually come out and admitted that they were asked but didn't take up the offer?
Pirelli have been quite naive in doing this test with the team that has the most to gain from better tyre knowledge in 2013.
It does seem silly to use a current car when they've a 3 year old Renault. I can see why Ferrari and Red Bull are upset that a current team had its current car used. Mercedes will have learned something from the test. Had it been a car that was 2 or 3 years old, would that team have actually learned anything? Also why did Pirelli use Lewis/Nico? If they'd used their own drivers then Pirelli could have at least said that Mercedes really weren't told anything of use.
Yes, it was practically all they talked about for the 90 minute build up on Sky. Its also on a lot of websites reporting on it.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107708
Obviously its no shocker that Mercedes might now be interested in doing the test, although they agreed before the strategy shambles that was Spain, and it was more about the failure they had in Bahrain. But either way, everyone had the chance, nobody else said yes.
Firstly, because the rules say so, and secondly, do you think any F1 team is going to let a non contracted driver drive their car? Of course not.
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Soldato
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Until a team like McLaren, Williams or Sauber come out and admit they were offered a test then can we really believe Mercedes or Pirelli? They would say everyone was offered the test, wouldn't they?
Whilst I think Pirelli have been naive and caught out, the FIA have helped to create this mess by allowing a one-off test with one team! Why one team?
Whilst I think Pirelli have been naive and caught out, the FIA have helped to create this mess by allowing a one-off test with one team! Why one team?
The issue has never been about who was asked. That isn't what RBR or Ferrari protested. Nobody has denied that everyone was asked.
What is being challenged is that Mercedes used a 2013 car, when the regulations on testing state tests outside of official pre season testing and straight line testing must be done in a car over 2 years old.
Everyone else turned it down because they thought it was testing on unknown tyres in 2011 spec cars. Mercedes obviously think 2013 was ok. Had RBR or Ferrari thought the same they would have probably done the test. But now they realise they missed the boat there kicking up a **** storm about it.
Its not about who was or wasn't invited, its about the car they did it in.
What is being challenged is that Mercedes used a 2013 car, when the regulations on testing state tests outside of official pre season testing and straight line testing must be done in a car over 2 years old.
Everyone else turned it down because they thought it was testing on unknown tyres in 2011 spec cars. Mercedes obviously think 2013 was ok. Had RBR or Ferrari thought the same they would have probably done the test. But now they realise they missed the boat there kicking up a **** storm about it.
Its not about who was or wasn't invited, its about the car they did it in.
From the one driver who probably couldn't punch his way out of a paper bag or summon the energy to try
Is Kimi disciplined when it comes to physical training?
I've always seen him as a physically lazy individual who barely has the energy to say more than a few sentences, let alone go for a long run, cycle ride or punch anybody in the face.
I like to see aggressive drivers, though to drive aggressively at Monaco is bit risky. I like Perez. He started off slow at McLaren and now he has taken the bull by the horns and is now unsettling Button. This is exactly what Senna did to Prost when he joined McLaren in 1988.
Nail on the head. If nothing else Merc got 1000kms of reliability data, and the drivers got extra miles.
The two year rule does appear to have been taken to the letter. They're not even allowed to run a current season car up the Goodwood hill as it constitutes testing.
In an interview today, Hembry stated repeatedly that all teams were asked last year and some didn't didn't respond.
The needed to use a representative car to test the potential modifications to this years tyres and the potential future tyres.
Teams have argued about them having an old Renault to use as it gives Renault an advantage... They've asked for a year old car to use time and time again, they're even willing to use different teams cars at different tests. It's just the teams will never agree.
Unless they design a car themselves, where else are they going to get one? Other than the HRT cars that were for sale earlier... and they're barely representative of a 2013 car.
As for using Rosberg and Hamilton, why waste time and tyres getting someone else comfortable, used to the car, how it operates, as well as the expense of getting the appropriate seat/steering wheel/pedals made, when you can use the drivers who were still around from the weekend.
Mercedes would have had a set of unmarked tyres given to them, asked to fit them and go out and do a certain number of laps with a certain driving style and an amount of fuel.
Would Ferrari have gained any useful knowledge about the future tyres from running a 2011 car in this way, like they did earlier this year?
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What we have is an FIA regulation loophole. And Ross Brawn has once again jumped right through it.
The FIA could own up and admit its a loophole that allows current car testing, but then everyone would want a Pirelli test. Its much easier for them to stick their fingers in their ears and deny knowledge of it and let people take it out on Pirelli and Mercedes.
Soldato
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And yet Pirelli didn't cancel the session once they realised Mercedes were going to use their 2013 car! Pirelli must know the rules regarding tyres/testing quite well so why did they go along with the test involving a 2013 car?
I meant in terms of saying 'yes' to the test. Mercedes thought they could use 2013 spec, so said yes. Everyone else thought they could only use 2011 spec, so said no.
Infact it doesn't even look like it got that far. From what Paul Hembrey has said it appear most people just ignored the request entirely.
Maybe Mercedes were the first to not shove the email straight in the trash and look at what was being asked, so were the first to realise they could run 2013 cars?
Pirelli think 2013 is ok, Mercedes think 2013 is ok, both think they had approval from the FIA. The key 'issue' here is the FIA now denying all knowledge of the test, which is utterly retarded considering where and when it was held.
Indeed.
Other teams may turn down the test because the team would be forced to use a 2011 car...which may not serve any use for the team. Mercedes however, decided it would be a good idea to use their current car, which is against the rules.
My belief is that Merc knew what they were doing. They took a chance. They were desperate after the disaster that was Spain and thought to themselves, lets do 1000km of extra testing (to get extra data) and if we get fined at a later date, we shall take the hit.
Remember Merc are spend huge sums of money hiring staff. They are given big money by their parent company and the pressure to succeed is huge.
So, they had 2 choices:
1. use the 2011 car. Gain no advantage and continue the season where they get pole and go backwards in the race; or
2. use the 2013 car. Gain an advantage with understanding the tyre shredding during races. Then pay a fine, at a later date and improve their chances of scoring more points in the remaining races of the season.
For me, the choice was obvious and I'd have done the same thing.
Deleted member 651465
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It's scandalous how both Red Bulls got past Lewis in the SC period. Any word on the delta times they put in once they were released?
And as far as the race goes: I found this one incredibly boring.
Not really much else to say.
Vettel will be happy because he got to open up a gap in the WDC.
I fully expect Vettel to win his 4th WDC, bringing him ever closer to MSc's record.
I still say that Alonso will finish 2nd this year, with Kimi 3rd.
Not really much else to say.
Vettel will be happy because he got to open up a gap in the WDC.
I fully expect Vettel to win his 4th WDC, bringing him ever closer to MSc's record.
I still say that Alonso will finish 2nd this year, with Kimi 3rd.
I don't think its quite that clear cut.
All the other teams knew about the test. They all knew it was a 2013 spec car.
The FIA knew about the test. They knew it was a 2013 spec car.
Anyone living within a few miles of the Barcelona race track knew there was some testing going on.
Yet nothing happened until 2 hours before the start of the Monaco GP, the perfect time to unsettle a team who are sat just infront of you on the grid.
The protest by RBR is all tactical gamesmanship. If there was a clear cut rule breach then it would have come to light the second Mercedes put the car on the track. After all, if you were a rival and knew they were breaking the rules, would you not only let them do the test, but then crunch the data before shouting about it? No, you would be in there at the earliest point you could.
The rules are not clear, and therein lies the issue. If they were, the test wouldn't have happened. As it did, the FIA are stuck between penalising a team for breaching rules that aren't clear, or admitting theres a loophole and taking the backlash for it. Much easier to divert the poop at Mercedes and Pirelli.
All the other teams knew about the test. They all knew it was a 2013 spec car.
The FIA knew about the test. They knew it was a 2013 spec car.
Anyone living within a few miles of the Barcelona race track knew there was some testing going on.
Yet nothing happened until 2 hours before the start of the Monaco GP, the perfect time to unsettle a team who are sat just infront of you on the grid.
The protest by RBR is all tactical gamesmanship. If there was a clear cut rule breach then it would have come to light the second Mercedes put the car on the track. After all, if you were a rival and knew they were breaking the rules, would you not only let them do the test, but then crunch the data before shouting about it? No, you would be in there at the earliest point you could.
The rules are not clear, and therein lies the issue. If they were, the test wouldn't have happened. As it did, the FIA are stuck between penalising a team for breaching rules that aren't clear, or admitting theres a loophole and taking the backlash for it. Much easier to divert the poop at Mercedes and Pirelli.
Pirelli get test data from a current 2013 car. It's everything they dreamed could be possible, unlike their 2010 ex-Renault.
As Skeeter says if the FIA knew then all was good to proceed. It's not like they snook off to Croix-en-Ternois and paid off all the locals to keep schtum. What other sensible reason would Merc have to stick around at Barcelona after the race was done?
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