33% of current length would leave them shorter than karts wouldn't it?
OK wording wasn't perfect, but you know what I meant.
Reduce overall length of the current cars by between a third and half of the current length..
Poll: Monaco Grand Prix 2021, Monte Carlo - Race 5/23
- Thread starter Shimmy
- Start date
- Status
OK wording wasn't perfect, but you know what I meant.
Reduce overall length of the current cars by between a third and half of the current length..
Well obviously if the cars are far shorter and narrower, the drivers cannot lie down any more, they will have to sit up, like people drivers used to in the past.
The Mercedes is the longest current F1 car at around 5.7m. Reducing its length by 50% would give you a 2.8m long car, which is still shorter than an original Mini. That's also shorter than a Legends car which is a 5/8 scale vehicle.
Not sure there would be much global audience to watch midget racing cars pootling round tracks and probably being slower than GT cars.
Someone who understands.
Smaller cars with massively less reliance on aerodynamics.
Ideally loose well over 50% of current levels of downforce, so cars can run far closer, with far less disruption, it will instantly give better racing, on smaller narrower tracks.
The other one simple change that would bring back great spectacle in racing, is bring back purely mechanical manual gearboxes and clutches.
Missed changes, false neutrals, drivers making mistakes, and following cars benefitting.
Soldato
- Joined
- 17 Oct 2005
- Posts
- 6,243
- Location
- North of Watford Gap
F1 has never been like that going back to its inception in 1946 (with the exception of Monza slipstreaming in the late 60s and early 70s before the chicanes were added) nor should it be.
That's what makes club racing and to a lesser degree touring cars great, but that's not F1. It would be good entertainment in the short term, but the whole premise of F1 is that, in theory, the best team and drivers are battling near the front while everyone else aspires to getting there and every once in a while you get a shock result or a freak race. That's what makes F1 special. Turning it into a lottery would dilute everything that makes F1 what it is.
Edit for terrible English
Last edited:
The problem with f1 though is you can be faster and still lose. If you’re slightly better you should be able to get past as long as you are good at overtaking. Needing to be 2 seconds a lap faster just to overtake us what makes it a borefest. British super bikes is a good example of what a competitive and fun series is. The best rise to the top but you still get others on good days that can win.
Soldato
- Joined
- 17 Oct 2005
- Posts
- 6,243
- Location
- North of Watford Gap
That's what the idea behind the 2021 (now 2022) rules are. The idea is that there is less turbulence and it affects following cars less too. I doubt the 2022 will go far enough though and I've already seen warnings that they will probably be keeping DRS.
Still, it's bit of a difficult balancing act as passing shouldn't be easy - there needs to be an element of risk and skill involved, and even now there are tracks where you see loads of DRS passes completed well before the corner, taking much of the skill out of it.
Still, it's bit of a difficult balancing act as passing shouldn't be easy - there needs to be an element of risk and skill involved, and even now there are tracks where you see loads of DRS passes completed well before the corner, taking much of the skill out of it.
And what's the one major difference between bikes and cars except number of wheels?
Bikes have next to zero aerodynamics.
Have F1 with next to zero aero, and you WILL get closer racing, tonnes of overtakes, and a million times better spectacle, and the formula will go back to driver skill, being paramount.
Look through the history of F1, and the more aero has been developed and become the single most important factor in a cars design and development, the worst the racing has become.
I do, why wouldn’t you think that? There is more than one problem with F1 but this is certainly one of the big ones imo.
Not all bike racing is competitive though, world superbikes is a good example. Now and again it can be decent but more often than not it’s a borefest. Moto gp was going down a similar road until recently. British superbikes and moto3 seem to have it just right.
It’s tricky to get the balance right and unfortunately in F1 there is too much power with the teams. As soon as the owners of F1 come up with ways to make the sport better you get team owners dictating what can and can’t happen. That’s like letting students make the rules up in a school.
Because throughout the history of F1 there have been many, many races where the fastest car didn't win, and seasons where the fastest car didn't win the championship. Even in seasons held up as classics.
'67 is a favourite example, since Grand Prix Legends got a mention in the PC gaming section the other day. The fastest car that year by far was the Lotus 49, a car that was a game changer in F1 (though the Lotus 72 that followed in 1970 was even more so). Introduced at the third championship round, it only won four out of the nine races left at that point. The car that won the title, in the process winning as many races as the Lotus, was the Brabham - a glorified F2 chassis with a modified Oldsmobile V8 engine that was easily one of the least powerful in the field. But it did at least reliably get to the end of races, and that was enough.
I'm not sure @Entai is right when he puts the majority of the blame on aero. I think you can have exciting racing in an aero-heavy formula still, but you need cars that can follow each other closely and that's going to mean allowing ground effect. See the 1981 Spanish Grand Prix for what that can do - a five car pack separated by 1.24 seconds coming over the line
Oh, and once again the fastest car wasn't the winner - though Gilles Villeneuve's Ferrari was more powerful, it was not a good handling car and only some pretty handy driving combined with the power advantage kept him in front.You're also going to need cars that are much shorter and lighter, but I've banged that drum often enough on here so I'm not going to repeat every argument I've made for that.
Bikes have aero too these days
Never said they didn't
But the do not have so much downforce available that they could theoretically run upside down in a tunnel because of the amount of aero downforce available, like F1 have.
THAT has to be reduced to make the formula more competitive.
Personally I'd be far happier seeing, maximum aero downforce being limited to maybe roughly 60-75% of unladen car weight, so yes even lower percentage of fully laden car weight.
Watching classic F1 cars from 70's and 80's with some aero, but by no means massive amounts, is far more satisfying racing to watch than any F1 from early mid nineties onwards.
You have some major, major rose tinted glasses if you think races were better in the 80’s. You’re remembering individual battles but in general the racing was ****. Three or four cars on the lead lap, often separated by thirty seconds or more, a dozen retirements, it was crap.Never said they didn't
But the do not have so much downforce available that they could theoretically run upside down in a tunnel because of the amount of aero downforce available, like F1 have.
THAT has to be reduced to make the formula more competitive.
Personally I'd be far happier seeing, maximum aero downforce being limited to maybe roughly 60-75% of unladen car weight, so yes even lower percentage of fully laden car weight.
Watching classic F1 cars from 70's and 80's with some aero, but by no means massive amounts, is far more satisfying racing to watch than any F1 from early mid nineties onwards.
Bikes have aero too these days
It's widely accepted that F1 cars don't function properly in dirty air, rarely a race goes by without Brundle stating it. To get exciting racing you need to take away the advantage the car in front has with clean air, basically make the cars less predictable and harder to handle so that driver skill plays more of a role, rather than aero and engine power. They're pretty much on rails at this point unless a driver makes a serious error/misjudgement or gets caught up in dirty air (case in point).
- Status