More London violence.

[sneakysnail]

hate to point out the obvious but there's also free will. Plenty of career criminals have chosen their path and to continue on it. Upbringing/ culture is an excuse for some but not most. We arent talking about kidnapped child soldiers like in africa here guys. We're talking about people brought up in crappy parts of London aka heaven compared to many parts of the world.

Not everyone raised in a poor environment turns to crime and its not an excuse for those that do. You are responsible for your own actions.

 

[Luckystrike123]

Alcohol is legal. People steal to fund their alcohol habits.
Alcholics are often homeless and beg.
Alchohol is responsible for a huge amount of police work.
Alcohol is linked to organised crime.

Any more points you want me to refute?

Well as you are m

Alcohol is legal. People steal to fund their alcohol habits.
Alcholics are often homeless and beg.
Alchohol is responsible for a huge amount of police work.
Alcohol is linked to organised crime.

Alcohol is legal. People steal to fund their alcohol habits.
Alcholics are often homeless and beg.
Alchohol is responsible for a huge amount of police work.
Alcohol is linked to organised crime.

Any more points you want me to refute?

Any more points you want me to refute?[/QU

Alcohol is legal. People steal to fund their alcohol habits.
Alcholics are often homeless and beg.
Alchohol is responsible for a huge amount of police work.
Alcohol is linked to organised crime.

Any more points you want me to refute?

Whilst your statements are correct it us hardly a like for like comparison, if alcohol had no value then immediately half of the list does not apply.

Stealing to fund what? Organised crime syndicates making money how? Alcoholics and drug users cause the police entirely separate problems, theiving vs. antisocial behaviour.

In theory you'd eradicate new heroin users as there would be no market and therefore no dealers.

Don't forget the horrendous problems that drug illegality causes in the countries of origin. If alchohol was made illegal we'd end up with prohibition style criminality in no time.

What I wrote about was not my personal opinion, it is the finding of progressive drug policies from progressive countries. I think the UK is far from ideal and could learn much from the example of others.

 

[jonneymendoza]

What made the person a low life? Genetics?

The choices they made in there life

 

[blazed]

hate to point out the obvious but there's also free will. Plenty of career criminals have chosen their path and to continue on it. Upbringing/ culture is an excuse for some but not most. We arent talking about kidnapped child soldiers like in africa here guys. We're talking about people brought up in crappy parts of London aka heaven compared to many parts of the world.

Not everyone raised in a poor environment turns to crime and its not an excuse for those that do. You are responsible for your own actions.

That's your problem though. You say "hate to point out the obvious" but it is not the obvious, it is not even true, you don't even know what freewill is, prove to me free will. Don't prove to the delusion of freewill, that you feel like you have freewill. (And please don't use Michio Kaku freewill video, he simply got overexcited about a claim which isn't proven yet)

Again like I said educate yourselves https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCGtkDzELAI


People on here can't even be arsed to watch a 10 minute video, if you could watch a 10 minute video I'd give you over 5000 hours of content to watch.

I'm not saying you are have to be born in somalia, to be a pirate etc.

I'm LITERALLY saying it's every factor in your life that leads to a decision. It's not that hard to understand.

e.g. A kid who was born to a poor family in England, who had ****** parents who paid no attention to him, abused him, who skipped out on school or bunked classes, who made the wrong friends that encouraged bad behavior, who never was taught right from wrong properly, never taught love and compassion, who doesn't have the intellect, experience, or wisdom to get himself out of the ******** he created, because his brain simply cannot comprehend what is important or not, heck maybe he has learning difficulty, dyslexia, adhd, add.

I'm not saying its in the envrionment or upbringing only, I am saying it's in "everything".

That's not free will at all.

Free will would be you have this menu open up like a character creation sheet and then you allocate all your points to "thug life" and deduct points from "intellect, wisdom and compassion". That's not how reality works, unfortunately, it leads you down a path and you pickup things subconsciously, if you're lucky you'll pickup great wisdoms which will allow your robotic nature to autocorrect.

I'm not saying these things to protect the criminals, but if you want to fix the world, at least have a proper understanding of it, otherwise you just going to walk around like Thanos wanting to flick your fingers and wipe them out instantly.

I bet most of you haven't even had crime done to you in the last year, if you're not getting mugged /burgled once a year then you have nothing to complain about, stop reading the news and heavily skewing to negativity that the newspapers prey on.

Touch wood I haven't had anything bad happen to me in London since I was a kid, the ones attempting to mug me were kids too.

It's also a statistics game, the higher the population the more % that people will commit crime, also in the UK we don't have high ideals, for Example in Japan there is less crime but they have much higher ideals, do you want to Bow multiple times to people for respect? Do you want to be banned from using Mobile phones on public transport? Japan has high ideals, UK doesn't, UK doesn't even really have a culture, its just a mix bag of everything.

 

[blazed]

Theres also many brain disorders like Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and they say these people are simply incapable of feeling empathy or compassion for others, even if they tried to.

So what do you think about that then? Being hard wired not to care for anyone. That's not really a fair hand played out to you. Maybe there are more things to discover about the brain and personalities.

 

[jonneymendoza]

That's your problem though. You say "hate to point out the obvious" but it is not the obvious, it is not even true, you don't even know what freewill is, prove to me free will. Don't prove to the delusion of freewill, that you feel like you have freewill. (And please don't use Michio Kaku freewill video, he simply got overexcited about a claim which isn't proven yet)

Again like I said educate yourselves https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCGtkDzELAI


People on here can't even be arsed to watch a 10 minute video, if you could watch a 10 minute video I'd give you over 5000 hours of content to watch.

I'm not saying you are have to be born in somalia, to be a pirate etc.

I'm LITERALLY saying it's every factor in your life that leads to a decision. It's not that hard to understand.

e.g. A kid who was born to a poor family in England, who had ****** parents who paid no attention to him, abused him, who skipped out on school or bunked classes, who made the wrong friends that encouraged bad behavior, who never was taught right from wrong properly, never taught love and compassion, who doesn't have the intellect, experience, or wisdom to get himself out of the ******** he created, because his brain simply cannot comprehend what is important or not, heck maybe he has learning difficulty, dyslexia, adhd, add.

I'm not saying its in the envrionment or upbringing only, I am saying it's in "everything".

That's not free will at all.

Free will would be you have this menu open up like a character creation sheet and then you allocate all your points to "thug life" and deduct points from "intellect, wisdom and compassion". That's not how reality works, unfortunately, it leads you down a path and you pickup things subconsciously, if you're lucky you'll pickup great wisdoms which will allow your robotic nature to autocorrect.

I'm not saying these things to protect the criminals, but if you want to fix the world, at least have a proper understanding of it, otherwise you just going to walk around like Thanos wanting to flick your fingers and wipe them out instantly.

I bet most of you haven't even had crime done to you in the last year, if you're not getting mugged /burgled once a year then you have nothing to complain about, stop reading the news and heavily skewing to negativity that the newspapers prey on.

Touch wood I haven't had anything bad happen to me in London since I was a kid, the ones attempting to mug me were kids too.

It's also a statistics game, the higher the population the more % that people will commit crime, also in the UK we don't have high ideals, for Example in Japan there is less crime but they have much higher ideals, do you want to Bow multiple times to people for respect? Do you want to be banned from using Mobile phones on public transport? Japan has high ideals, UK doesn't, UK doesn't even really have a culture, its just a mix bag of everything.

nonsense imo.

low lifes have no excuses whatsoever. no one is putting a gun to there head telling them to pretend to be gangster.

They all go to the same school i use to go. get equal opportunity to thrive and learn in school to get good grades in order to progress.

Have the ability to learn something, develop a legitimate passion for something and go off working hard to achieve there goals legitimately in life.

Now if the low life has damaged to his brain/sickness that prevents he or she from learning a skill useful for a career, then fair enough but no most if not all these low lifes have a nice healthy well being no sickness/deceases

 

[blazed]

nonsense imo.

low lifes have no excuses whatsoever. no one is putting a gun to there head telling them to pretend to be gangster.

They all go to the same school i use to go. get equal opportunity to thrive and learn in school to get good grades in order to progress.

Have the ability to learn something, develop a legitimate passion for something and go off working hard to achieve there goals legitimately in life.

Now if the low life has damaged to his brain/sickness that prevents he or she from learning a skill useful for a career, then fair enough but no most if not all these low lifes have a nice healthy well being no sickness/deceases

I see no difference between your inability to understand
and the inability of a criminal to understand that his actions are wrong.

They are also shrugging their shoulders and saying "nonsense imo, if i want to take, I take."

I'm trying to say something fundamental here, if someone puts a gun to your head and turns the lights out for you, it is not wrong, reality has no qualms about it, and eventually everyone will forget you ever existed in the first place.

It's only wrong in your own mind. It may be wrong in someone else's mind when they read a newspaper but a few seconds later they've forgotten all about it.

I dont know you personally but the way you write and your ideas show me what level you're at, you're not ready for these discussions, first you must go back into learning mode, because right now you think you know it all, you've concluded everything.

I'm not trying to win a debate with you, if that's all you care about satisfying the ego then fine, you are right, you win, happy?

 

[FortuitousFluke]

I dont know you personally but the way you write and your ideas show me what level you're at, you're not ready for these discussions, first you must go back into learning mode, because right now you think you know it all, you've concluded everything.

Now I'm going to start by saying I ascribe to some of what you're saying, in my opinion if you fix the issues that lead people to crime at an early age that's the best route to solve the problem. I also believe that a person's experience and upbringing can make them significantly more likely to engage in criminality. They still have an element of free will though as evidenced by people who turn their lives around.

The issue I have is that you are being as closed minded as the other guy. You've read up on some simple pop psychology and now you think you're infallible. The only difference between your position and his is that you are being incredibly pretentious about it. The reason you won't win him round is your attitude not your argument.

 

[kedge]

So what do you think about that then? Being hard wired not to care for anyone. That's not really a fair hand played out to you.

Sounds more like an excuse than anything else, there are many who have committed heinous crimes and yet they have changed their ways simply because they have a choice (free will) to do so. Just because some psychologist claims this or that does not make it irrefutable scientific proof.

 

[asim18]

Damn blazed. Absolutely everything you post is bang on

You come across as a cognitive scientist who knows exactly what they're talking about.

Now I'm going to start by saying I ascribe to some of what you're saying, in my opinion if you fix the issues that lead people to crime at an early age that's the best route to solve the problem. I also believe that a person's experience and upbringing can make them significantly more likely to engage in criminality. They still have an element of free will though as evidenced by people who turn their lives around.

The issue I have is that you are being as closed minded as the other guy. You've read up on some simple pop psychology and now you think you're infallible. The only difference between your position and his is that you are being incredibly pretentious about it. The reason you won't win him round is your attitude not your argument.

You say people turn their lives around. That is true people can turn their lives around but in many cases they won't if someone or something doesn't intervene and help them to do so. Most people just want to bung them behind bars. Some of them cant just do it themselves, someone or something needs to happen in their lives, or some sort of epiphany.

By the way I personally don't think the dude is pretentious at all he knows what he's talking about. His attitude is fine IMO he seems chilled, doesn't seem to get annoyed, etc. I thought I knew about psychology but this dude is on another level. I've learnt more from him in 50 posts than I have from thousands of posts by others.

Sounds more like an excuse than anything else, there are many who have committed heinous crimes and yet they have changed their ways simply because they have a choice (free will) to do so. Just because some psychologist claims this or that does not make it irrefutable scientific proof.

Trust me it's not an excuse for anything. It's just an example of being hard wired in a particular way.

Someone with NPD cant simply "change their ways". Someone doesn't just choose to be a narcissist, or pick and choose which personality disorder they want/don't want.

 

[Trappi$t]

I see no difference between your inability to understand
and the inability of a criminal to understand that his actions are wrong.

They are also shrugging their shoulders and saying "nonsense imo, if i want to take, I take."

I'm trying to say something fundamental here, if someone puts a gun to your head and turns the lights out for you, it is not wrong, reality has no qualms about it, and eventually everyone will forget you ever existed in the first place.

Are you actually ill ?

You are saying someone murdering someone "is not wrong" ? You literally have no recompense from that, you have just totally invalidated any possible opinion you could have on the matter.

LOL at Asim thinking you are a cognitive scientist, hahaha, I'd be willing to be he's a Corbyn Evangalist too! You two really are bonkers!

Essentially what you are saying is "ITS OK GUISE, you don't get these poor gangsta bluds who go around robbing and murdering, everyone is to blame but themselves, its their brains!, no, its their environment!, no they dont know its wrong!. no, its YOU just not learning enough about their perspective!"

Absolute madness.

Every human on earth bar the most tragically retarded and mentally ill know its wrong to plunge a knife into someones head, rob them, or shoot them, you guys are frightening you really are. Lets see how you feel when you get robbed/stabbed or someone you are close to does.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Are you actually ill ?

You are saying someone murdering someone "is not wrong" ? You literally have no recompense from that, you have just totally invalidated any possible opinion you could have on the matter.

LOL at Asim thinking you are a cognitive scientist, hahaha, I'd be willing to be he's a Corbyn Evangalist too! You two really are bonkers!

Essentially what you are saying is "ITS OK GUISE, you don't get these poor gangsta bluds who go around robbing and murdering, everyone is to blame but themselves, its their brains!, no, its their environment!, no they dont know its wrong!. no, its YOU just not learning enough about their perspective!"

Absolute madness.

Every human on earth bar the most tragically retarded and mentally ill know its wrong to plunge a knife into someones head, rob them, or shoot them, you guys are frightening you really are. Lets see how you feel when you get robbed/stabbed or someone you are close to does.

[/QUOTE]
well said!!

 

[blazed]

Are you actually ill ?

You are saying someone murdering someone "is not wrong" ? You literally have no recompense from that, you have just totally invalidated any possible opinion you could have on the matter.

LOL at Asim thinking you are a cognitive scientist, hahaha, I'd be willing to be he's a Corbyn Evangalist too! You two really are bonkers!

Essentially what you are saying is "ITS OK GUISE, you don't get these poor gangsta bluds who go around robbing and murdering, everyone is to blame but themselves, its their brains!, no, its their environment!, no they dont know its wrong!. no, its YOU just not learning enough about their perspective!"

Absolute madness.

Every human on earth bar the most tragically retarded and mentally ill know its wrong to plunge a knife into someones head, rob them, or shoot them, you guys are frightening you really are. Lets see how you feel when you get robbed/stabbed or someone you are close to does.

You've completely missed the point I was making which is all issues arise from lack of understanding and consciousness.

I never said criminals shouldn't be punished, I just understand why it happens, you haven't even grasp the basics of reality that things work in polar opposites, Yin and Yang, you still haven't understood that reality simply cannot exist without all these things you label as bad, You cannot draw a picture without both black and white values and shades of greys that are created in between, but you seem to want to be able to draw a picture using a white pencil on white paper.

I don't really care for the personal attacks, go for it, weak minds get offended and turn a discussion into a personal assault on someone just because I challenged your belief system to see in new perspectives.

Mankind crucified Jesus Christ just because they couldn't handle him claiming to be God, or the son of God.

You can tell if someone is bad at drawing if all they can do is draw stick figures, you can tell if someone can sing by the sounds of their singing ability.

Wherever you find it pretentious or not, you can tell what level someone is on from the things they say, discuss, how threatened and triggered they become, and if they only think in one perspective of their ego.

 

[jonneymendoza]

You've completely missed the point I was making which is all issues arise from lack of understanding and consciousness.

I never said criminals shouldn't be punished, I just understand why it happens, you haven't even grasp the basics of reality that things work in polar opposites, Yin and Yang, you still haven't understood that reality simply cannot exist without all these things you label as bad, You cannot draw a picture without both black and white values and shades of greys that are created in between, but you seem to want to be able to draw a picture using a white pencil on white paper.

I don't really care for the personal attacks, go for it, weak minds get offended and turn a discussion into a personal assault on someone just because I challenged your belief system to see in new perspectives.

Mankind crucified Jesus Christ just because they couldn't handle him claiming to be God, or the son of God.

You can tell if someone is bad at drawing if all they can do is draw stick figures, you can tell if someone can sing by the sounds of their singing ability.

Wherever you find it pretentious or not, you can tell what level someone is on from the things they say, discuss, how threatened and triggered they become, and if they only think in one perspective of their ego.

Some of your earlier post was ludicrous.

Thinking that these humans have no choice in there life whatsoever and that the environment etc prevents them from just putting there head down in school (which is free and automatically any born British kid has access to ).

I've traveled to some grim places in this planet where kids live in a much harsher environment yet have prevailed in life earning legit money to support there family and have a roof over there head Hard working people grinding legitimately.

 

[dowie]

In this thread:-

Thugs with no intelligence or moral fibre are defended with ...... METAPHYSICS! LOL

LOL

The armchair philosophy and psychology stuff is both hilarious and slightly tragic... the tendency is to keep it vague and esoteric then if questioned pretend that any criticism is a result of people not having an "open mind" etc...

These types seem to be complete suckers for junk science, conspiracies etc.. NLP types are quite delusional at times, this new poster seems to be into something similarly dubious called "spiral dynamics".

 

[blazed]

LOL

The armchair philosophy and psychology stuff is both hilarious and slightly tragic... the tendency is to keep it vague and esoteric then if questioned pretend that any criticism is a result of people not having an "open mind" etc...

These types seem to be complete suckers for junk science, conspiracies etc.. NLP types are quite delusional at times, this new poster seems to be into something similarly dubious called "spiral dynamics".

Hi Dowie, I knew you'd be back as soon as soon I join back into the discussion, thanks for proving me right amusing, first post back aimed at me heh

 

[Rroff]

Thinking that these humans have no choice in there life whatsoever and that the environment etc prevents them from just putting there head down in school (which is free and automatically any born British kid has access to ).

Some of these environments certainly aren't great for people who do want to study - as a generalisation schools that have a high percentage of people from deprived areas tends to result in pupils that do appear academically minded being targets for bullying and their lifestyle in general and how their friends spend their time outside of school, etc. not positive towards that end either.

 

[Trappi$t]

Criminal thugs stabbing, answer = SPIRAL DYNAMICS!!?

Best laugh I've had all day.. ROFL

 

[blazed]

Criminal thugs stabbing, answer = SPIRAL DYNAMICS!!?

Best laugh I've had all day.. ROFL

The best long term solution is to increase human consciousness and understanding.

USA is a good example of how creating war on thugs or creating war on drugs will not fix the issues. US has high crimes regardless of having a strong police/military force and harsh sentences with harsh prisons.

I've mentioned this before go find the safest countries in the world and study their societies. You will find they are much more stage green than other countries.

But you don't care, because you are in denial, and all you want to really do is argue and "ROFL" and "LMAO" at people on forums, the instagram thugsters have similar reactions as you, you are more similar than you think.

 

[Lord-Jaffa]

You've completely missed the point I was making which is all issues arise from lack of understanding and consciousness.

I never said criminals shouldn't be punished, I just understand why it happens, you haven't even grasp the basics of reality that things work in polar opposites, Yin and Yang, you still haven't understood that reality simply cannot exist without all these things you label as bad, You cannot draw a picture without both black and white values and shades of greys that are created in between, but you seem to want to be able to draw a picture using a white pencil on white paper.

I don't really care for the personal attacks, go for it, weak minds get offended and turn a discussion into a personal assault on someone just because I challenged your belief system to see in new perspectives.

Mankind crucified Jesus Christ just because they couldn't handle him claiming to be God, or the son of God.

You can tell if someone is bad at drawing if all they can do is draw stick figures, you can tell if someone can sing by the sounds of their singing ability.

Wherever you find it pretentious or not, you can tell what level someone is on from the things they say, discuss, how threatened and triggered they become, and if they only think in one perspective of their ego.

LOL