More London violence.

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I've mentioned this before go find the safest countries in the world and study their societies. You will find they are much more stage green than other countries.

Sorry but, LOL :D

Just in case anyone is interested in what is being referred to here, it is some hippie pseudo science stuff masquerading as psychology called "spiral dynamics". Much like NLP it isn't really of much interest to academics but is mostly used used by people who are more likely to be "life coaches" or therapist types (i.e. the sort that will happily believe in and rote learn all sorts of bunk unquestioningly) than actual clinical psychologists or psychiatrists.

For whatever reason, in this thread, the poster being quoted above has repeatedly made reference to/promoted this stuff in his posts.

spiral-dynamic-image.jpg
 
These types seem to be complete suckers for junk science, conspiracies etc..

The poster being quoted above has repeatedly made reference to/promoted this stuff in his posts.

Calls out others as suckers for conspiracies, then has some sort of conspiracy theory that I'm out to promote some product/material.

I have reference tons of videos, images, and quotes from various resources which are not tied to each other. I'm not promoting anything.

Spiral Dynamics is a good theory to explain evolution of our society, there is no better way to do this other than to theorize, you cannot experience human evolution directly as some event. There's a lot of people who don't believe even in evolution even through the science and evidence behind it is very, very strong.

You can change the stage green label to anything you want, it doesn't really matter, stage green is a references to many things, such as better quality of living rather than wealth, better education systems, a more compassionate and caring society, more in line with nature, and Greenpeace, etc. etc.

You disappeared from the thread shortly after I stop responding to only come back immediately when I started posting again. Whether you like it or not, you're constantly drawn to me, which says a lot.

It's a pity you have no ability to approach things from a holistic perspective.

But I'm wasting my time with you, regardless of what I say your purpose is to be a troll and shutdown everything as "woowoo" before you even investigated the subject even a little bit, clearly when shown scientific studies of how meditation is beneficial in so many ways, the science of how psychedelics can be beneficial, research done by all real institutes and real science you lie out of your ass and say it's "pseudo-science", because that's how adamant you are not to be in the wrong.

The things you call "woowoo" are actually things that some of the wisest people of all time quote and reference, Nikola Tesla, Albert Einstein, Leonardo Da Vinci, go actually read their quotes and biographies.

https://www.imgur.com/a/kVSLTrM (here's a good start for you).

These people are renowned, and changed the world as we know it, you on the other hand, a common folk, with common mind, a sheep, will you become more? how will you change the world Mr Dowie? Or are you going to keep ******** on what are actually positive theories?
 
No conspiracy here, you've referred to this stuff multiple times in this thread for whatever reason.

Actually I was only using the colours, it was only when someone wanted me to explain what it ment and where they can find info is when I reference spiral dynamics. Stop lying Dowie, go reread the thread, it's getting boring. You have no idea what you're on about.

I didn't have to use spiral dynamics, I could have just said "societies which are like X, Y, Z", I used spiral dynamics to just get the point across faster because you can actually google it. It was for simplicity, spiral dynamics is not a be all, end all, it's just extra knowledge and wisdom to consider when you contemplate issues.
 
"extra knowledge and wisdom" :D

I don't know why you're making reference to the likes of Einstein and Tesla with regards to this stuff.
 
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I am thinking of all the different sociological and psychological factors which cause children to become involved with crime and gangs and you call me an apologist.

J-Hus isn't a child though. He's a 22 year old man. He's well into the time of life where personal responsibility is to be expected, not "society made me do it". He is the one who chooses to have gang ties that increase the likelihood of him being in a violent confrontation a hundred-fold.

Same here I've never stabbed anyone, I do IT support lmao. Again you are thinking in your bubble

You do this thing where if someone doesn't share your view, you declare that they must be ignorant / privileged and simply not have your greater experience. Some of us have lived in some pretty rough areas and we somehow still manage to believe in personal responsibility and making better life choices.
 
Are you actually ill ?

You are saying someone murdering someone "is not wrong" ? You literally have no recompense from that, you have just totally invalidated any possible opinion you could have on the matter.

Blazed seems to be of a mind that there is no free will, that our path is determined by circumstances both environmental and inherited and there is no room left between these things for an "I" that makes its own choices. A mindset that removes personal responsibility and culpability from any discussion. A society that rejects personal responsibility and culpability is a weak and dying society. Societies that don't believe in these things will be replaced by societies that do; and individuals who do not believe in these things will not enjoy the success that is enjoyed by people who do.

Simultaneously with preaching that we are trapped in a world without choice, Blazed also preaches he/she has the way out for us. Neglecting that for those of us who do accept personal responsibility, we're not trapped.
 
Blazed seems to be of a mind that there is no free will, that our path is determined by circumstances both environmental and inherited and there is no room left between these things for an "I" that makes its own choices. A mindset that removes personal responsibility and culpability from any discussion. A society that rejects personal responsibility and culpability is a weak and dying society. Societies that don't believe in these things will be replaced by societies that do; and individuals who do not believe in these things will not enjoy the success that is enjoyed by people who do.

Simultaneously with preaching that we are trapped in a world without choice, Blazed also preaches he/she has the way out for us. Neglecting that for those of us who do accept personal responsibility, we're not trapped.

The evidence for freewill is weak. There is actually more proof that there is no free will. This is your problem you believe in absolute truths based on your opinion not realising your making gargantuan claims out of opinion alone.

But I am not one sided either, I'm actually in a paradox state. The body and physical world is deterministic, the video I linked explained this well, you guys offered no counter examples besides your own forceful opinion that we do have freewill.

Humans are biological robots most of us cannot even control our ability to not watch porn when your hormones are settings off, ever tried a life of no Fap? There is so many times we feel guilty for doing something we knew precisely we shouldn't do or indulge in, but we did it anyway, if we always had freewill then we wouldn't always have a battle of willpower between our higher self and lower self. When you control your car to go left or right, it behaves exactly like you want it, it does not create resistance, although you still have no freewill as you can't just drive through traffic when you're stuck.

But as consciousness itself I/you do have freewill, but this is a deep conversation, and people can't seem to tell the difference between consciousness and ego (reality vs persona, Persona, The word is derived from Latin, where it originally referred to a theatrical mask).

The bottom line is the criminals are not separate from you, they are happening within your consciousness, if we took away your eyes and ears you probably never detect a criminal ever again, the same way a blind person can never watch a movie or video game ever again.

The same way that Geralt a video game character is not separate from the NPC characters or his environment, it is all a video game made out of 3D graphics and coding, the only separation of Geralt is entirely fictional in your mind through the illusion of pixels. You actually can become aware of this with reality, you can become consciousness as opposed to a person, (there are countless books, and teachers that teach this very lesson, there is also ancient wisdom, from sages to prophets who said the same thing).

I gave my idea on positive changes to society, what the next generation of young people need to bring crime dramatically down, which is to become more of a green culture, we have education system that teaches nothing about life to our kids, nothing about how to meditate and distress, nothing about feeling into our emotions and figuring them out, nothing about compassion and well being, nothing about relationships, nothing about metaphysics, the meaning of life, and who we are, nothing about real world problems from, budgeting, spending, etc. I never even had a class that taught me how to job search and write a CV. We all had these very linear specialised classes that became utterly useless in our adulthood once we finished them.

We need parents, education system and centres with additional help for troubled youngsters to be on the same page about this.

But you guy's just want temporary changes like increasing police numbers, or powers or beating the **** out of criminals.

Honestly look at this thread, there are people making jokes and being sarcastic/aggressive, people high fiving each other, with "hahas" even though what I am saying is very positive in nature. Honestly you guys deserve the criminals! Keep getting butthurt about them. You guys can suffer with your negative newspapers and tunnel vision into negativity crap-hole that you, yourself is skewing with your own mind by simply focusing on the bad all the time.

Until people wise up and and take the recommendations above seriously we won't get the positive effects from them, because why would we build these positive infrastructures if all people want is just a Police Nation. And then years later people will be moaning about how brutal the police is because guess what, bad people will find their way into the force, and they'll beat the crap out of you or harass you when you give them lip.
 
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The evidence for freewill is weak. There is actually more proof that there is no free will.

Proof of a negative is logically dubious. But regardless, I never said whether there was free will or not. I said that a society that rejects it is a weaker society and an individual who rejects it will be less successful than otherwise. And I believe there's plenty of evidence of that.

This is your problem you believe in absolute truths based on your opinion not realising your making gargantuan claims out of opinion alone.

I'm not aware anything I've written uses my opinion as evidence.
 
Proof of a negative is logically dubious. But regardless, I never said whether there was free will or not. I said that a society that rejects it is a weaker society and an individual who rejects it will be less successful than otherwise. And I believe there's plenty of evidence of that.



I'm not aware anything I've written uses my opinion as evidence.

Oh I see what you think no free will is, you think it means because we have no free will we shouldn't do anything and sit and watch TV? Therefore, that makes us less successful and weaker. No that's not what no free will means.

Not taking action or not doing something is still an act of doing, it's still like making a choice. By making no choice at all you made a choice.

No free will means when you look at your past you realise what happened was always meant to happen and you cannot change the past. No free will means if you're about to be executed either by a terrorist, or death row sentence or any other unavoidable death such as cancer, it means accepting what reality has in store for you, being one with reality rather than being an ego that's opposing reality like as if it’s bigger than reality, bigger than the whole, judging reality how it ought to be, is like a human judging God.

People who understand no free will are not quitters, they just know how to accept losses and move on, forgive themselves, and whenever they win or succeed they know it wasn't their ego's that did but reality happened the way it was meant to happen, and for that they are grateful. That's why in a lot of religions people thank God for their fortune, which is the same thing as thanking reality for the story played.

Determinism means you're like this huge complex mathematical calculation which takes into account your entire being, from your genetics, to environment, to every event, and every position in life you were, and how you feel right now, and based on that huge calculation it will know what the next thing you're going to do is, but you as the ego, will obviously feel like you made a choice. And when the **** hits the fan we're very quick as ego's to blame others and other things, heh, the biggest illusion of all.

No freewill is not a negative thing. It's not something you can escape, and it will always feel like you have freewill.

Albert Einstein was deterministic, he had a quote along the lines of something like "Give the moon consciousness and it will think it's spinning around the world out of his own free will".

Remember what you were before you were born, you were here always, as consciousness and the human body grew inside of this consciousness and you are percieving all it's perceptions. You are not the mind, you are not the body.

That's why Jesus said "Before Abraham, I am".

Quran Verse (6:103) Vision perceives Him not, but He perceives [all] vision; and He is the Subtle, the Acquainted.

Psalm 46:10 "Be still and know that I am God".

The Bhagavad Gita - "The power of God is with you at all times; through the activities of mind, senses, breathing, and emotions; and is constantly doing all the work using you as a mere instrument".

Ok sorry about the religious context, love these little gems of truth across them all.
 
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Oh I see what you think no free will is, you think it means because we have no free will we shouldn't do anything and sit and watch TV? Therefore, that makes us less successful and weaker. No that's not what no free will means.

Not taking action or not doing something is still an act of doing, it's still like making a choice. By making no choice at all you made a choice.

No free will means when you look at your past you realise what happened was always meant to happen and you cannot change the past. No free will means if you're about to be executed either by a terrorist, or death row sentence or any other unavoidable death such as cancer, it means accepting what reality has in store for you, being one with reality rather than being an ego that's opposing reality like as if it’s bigger than reality, bigger than the whole, judging reality how it ought to be, is like a human judging God.

People who understand no free will are not quitters, they just know how to accept losses and move on, forgive themselves, and whenever they win or succeed they know it wasn't their ego's that did but reality happened the way it was meant to happen, and for that they are grateful. That's why in a lot of religions people thank God for their fortune, which is the same thing as thanking reality for the story played.

Determinism means you're like this huge complex mathematical calculation which takes into account your entire being, from your genetics, to environment, to every event, and every position in life you were, and how you feel right now, and based on that huge calculation it will know what the next thing you're going to do is, but you as the ego, will obviously feel like you made a choice. And when the **** hits the fan we're very quick as ego's to blame others and other things, heh, the biggest illusion of all.

No freewill is not a negative thing. It's not something you can escape, and it will always feel like you have freewill.

Albert Einstein was deterministic, he had a quote along the lines of something like "Give the moon consciousness and it will think it's spinning around the world out of his own free will".

Remember what you were before you were born, you were here always, as consciousness and the human body grew inside of this consciousness and you are percieving all it's perceptions. You are not the mind, you are not the body.

That's why Jesus said "Before Abraham, I am".

Quran Verse (6:103) Vision perceives Him not, but He perceives [all] vision; and He is the Subtle, the Acquainted.

Psalm 46:10 "Be still and know that I am God".

The Bhagavad Gita - "The power of God is with you at all times; through the activities of mind, senses, breathing, and emotions; and is constantly doing all the work using you as a mere instrument".

Ok sorry about the religious context, love these little gems of truth across them all.

So every terrible tragedy was always going to happen, and future ones will (and should) too?

Nah mate, way too 'all part of the Lords plan' for any sane person to entertain.
 
I removed myself from this discussion a while ago because there was no point in arguing with stupid.

Recent events with USA and protest all over the world, and the obvious police brutality and corruption going on, made me remember this thread and the sheer stupidity of people in it.

"YEAH MORE POLICING BRAH, BEAT THEIR ASSES, PUT THEM EM JAIL, MORE HARSH SENTENCES, MORE HARSH EVERYTHING"

Be careful about what you wish for. I told you it would be better to address the problem at its root, rather than dropping nukes on a garden of weed.

@dowie i remember you especially. I hope you're doing better now.
 
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You could use the quote function if you wanted to address what people had actually posted, making up a quote doesn't seem like a good start - you're the guy that was into some weird pseudoscience thing called "spiral dynamics"... kept promoting it in this thread and you got a bit miffed when it was criticised.

That some civil unrest has occurred again (rather minor in the case of the UK) - now seems to be, for whatever reason, taken by you as some sort of vindication and prompted you to bump the thread?

I'm not quite sure why - just a little prediction here - there probably will be some civil unrest, protests etc.. at some point again in future over some issue or other...
 
Sorry but, LOL :D

Just in case anyone is interested in what is being referred to here, it is some hippie pseudo science stuff masquerading as psychology called "spiral dynamics". Much like NLP it isn't really of much interest to academics but is mostly used used by people who are more likely to be "life coaches" or therapist types (i.e. the sort that will happily believe in and rote learn all sorts of bunk unquestioningly) than actual clinical psychologists or psychiatrists.

For whatever reason, in this thread, the poster being quoted above has repeatedly made reference to/promoted this stuff in his posts.

spiral-dynamic-image.jpg
Argh turquoise phase! Who can forget ickes famous turquoise phase.
 
So every terrible tragedy was always going to happen, and future ones will (and should) too?

Nah mate, way too 'all part of the Lords plan' for any sane person to entertain.

No free will doesn't mean that everything is determined, its more like humans are never really conscious of the decisions we make.

Think of a spurned male lover who ends up physically assaulting his partner, its not pre-determined, but the chemical reaction of the spurned lover ends up hurting their partner.
 
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