Mortgage Rate Rises

[fez]

Our son moved out in his early 30's with no help from us, he hardly spent money on non essentials and he paid his way with us. This was on a HCA'S wage. So real life for some can buck the dry statistics that everybody on here spouts.

You understand how statistics work right? They are data from real life and real people and your single data point doesn't disprove anything. Of course people are still buying houses at every age. The issue is that its getting harder on average.

And yes, your son moving out in his early 30s with no help from you (well, apart from living with you until his 30s, not paying remotely market rate to live with you etc) doesn't prove what you think it does. Then again, perhaps I am wrong and he was paying council tax, market rent, food, gas, electricity, water, looking after himself entirely on his own, cleaning and doing all the other life admin that people not living at home have to.

 

[Sythe79]

Their priorities are completely different to the older generation, we had no mobile phones, streaming platforms, Internet access, easier access to credit, fixed interest mortgages, easier access to mortgage funds, etc. I've said before that the reality of buying a house 40yrs ago was, probably, just as hard as today. We had to both save up for the deposit of our first house, we had to wait for the funds to be available from the Building Society(not, a sign here and the money is in your account straight away type of thing). We had interest rates going up almost daily at several points through our mortgage, we still had to find that money from somewhere(reducing spending on branded items of food was one way). Our son moved out in his early 30's with no help from us, he hardly spent money on non essentials and he paid his way with us. This was on a HCA'S wage. So real life for some can buck the dry statistics that everybody on here spouts.

Except every town and village had 3 or 4 times as many pubs 40 years ago, 3 times as many people smoked, every town had a nightclub and every city had dozens.

Seems people were wasting all their money too then just on different things, at least now it's a new phone and an expensive coffee, then it was literally going up a wall behind a dodgy takeaway.

 

[slinxy]

Sorry I should have made it clearer. I meant... I'm currently within 4 months of renewal as my fix is up so need to remortgage. I have locked in early on the best deal I can now get ready to start from June, which is 4.29%. That's been locked in for like a month or so with my existing provider HSBC. Now seen one for 4.16% with Lloyds.

If you're in your renewal period, it's just cost time... normally it's worth re-looking at once the BoE changes the rates and the banks onboard them.

 

[The Angry Welshman]

You understand how statistics work right? They are data from real life and real people and your single data point doesn't disprove anything. Of course people are still buying houses at every age. The issue is that its getting harder on average.

And yes, your son moving out in his early 30s with no help from you (well, apart from living with you until his 30s, not paying remotely market rate to live with you etc) doesn't prove what you think it does. Then again, perhaps I am wrong and he was paying council tax, market rent, food, gas, electricity, water, looking after himself entirely on his own, cleaning and doing all the other life admin that people not living at home have to.

and as the saying goes - lies, damn liess and statistics, they can all be manipulated to fit whatever rhetoric that suits.

 

[grudas]

and as the saying goes - lies, damn liess and statistics, they can all be manipulated to fit whatever rhetoric that suits.

now we're in lalalala head in sand area.

 

[The Angry Welshman]

I think what we have put into it has certainly added value, but the market incrasing is the biggest factor.

but you have done a hell of lot to that property to add that value and therefore market increase would help with that. if you didnt make all those changes, do you think it would have increased that much??

 

[The Angry Welshman]

now we're in lalalala head in sand area.

no where not in truth..... donald trump is good at putting out statistics that suits his rhetoric, so are teh conservatives in the UK , doesn't mean they are all true and some cant be fact checked.

stop buying the cars, phones, etc etc etc that put them into debt and makes it harder to save for what some people think is way more important -buying a house

 

[jaybee]

I think people get offended - often deeply - when you label them as having had it easier than today. No matter how much you try to explain that things truly were a different landscape economically etc, they see it as an attack that they didn't work hard. The reality is that most people did indeed work hard to get their houses and they always think back to hard times themselves which they went through. The hard reality is... those times weren't as hard as today. People don't like hearing that. It's hard to take I get it. But it is harder today.

 

[fez]

and as the saying goes - lies, damn liess and statistics, they can all be manipulated to fit whatever rhetoric that suits.

And who is manipulating these statics for their gain? That saying is meant for when someone is trying to lie to you or manipulate you. Is it all the young people that have got together to try and pull the wool over your eyes? The statistics are coming from places whose job it is to create data/statistics to help us understand things, not to try and sell you something.

 

[grudas]

I think people get offended - often deeply - when you label them as having had it easier than today. No matter how much you try to explain that things truly were a different landscape economically etc, they see it as an attack that they didn't work hard. The reality is that most people did indeed work hard to get their houses and they always think back to hard times themselves which they went through. The hard reality is... those times weren't as hard as today. People don't like hearing that. It's hard to take I get it. But it is harder today.

the thing is, some things are harder some are easier. It's all relative. Buying a property, which is a topic of this thread, is harder. As real world facts show.

getting a date with a blonde from 250 miles away is easier these days than back then.

 

[Freakbro]

Our son moved out in his early 30's with no help from us, he hardly spent money on non essentials and he paid his way with us. This was on a HCA'S wage. So real life for some can buck the dry statistics that everybody on here spouts.

Yes, I don't think you realise but you've just made our point, not yours and welshmans.

Your son was frugal, had no help from mum and dad and still had to wait into his 30's to be able to move out.

Welshman did it when he was 18, ergo it was relatively easier to do it back then.

 

[fez]

I think people get offended - often deeply - when you label them as having had it easier than today. No matter how much you try to explain that things truly were a different landscape economically etc, they see it as an attack that they didn't work hard. The reality is that most people did indeed work hard to get their houses and they always think back to hard times themselves which they went through. The hard reality is... those times weren't as hard as today. People don't like hearing that. It's hard to take I get it. But it is harder today.

Of course they don't like hearing it. Funnily enough its often the people who call today youth fragile that can't stand the idea that they had any sort of help in life or that everything they earned wasn't entirely from the sweat of their own brow. People might have more compassion for others if they understood how much of your lot in life is luck. When you were born, where you were born, who your parents were, what jobs were available when you went into the workforce, how much houses cost when you could buy, how intelligent you are, how healthy you are etc.

 

[GordyR]

a common sense answer from someone that understands.

Like yourself, he's completely incorrect. It's an answer that denies the basic facts of economic reality.

In tony's defence however, he has admitted multiple times that he wouldn't have been able to afford his home if the income/house price ratio was the same back then as it was today.

That honesty is to his credit.

There's a strange kind of mental block with certain people when it comes to this topic; it's a point blank refusal to accept that although they may have worked hard, the game has now changed to the point that for so many today, it's completely and utterly economically impossible, no matter how hard you work or how hard you save.

Put it this way...

My wife's stepdad is a carpenter who owns a house that is now worth around £750k. He earns around £40-£45k a year and is the only income in his household. That's around 18 times his current household income.

I'm lucky enough to earn several times what he does, and the equivalent would be like me living in a £3 million house.

I don't, I live in a very modest 3 bed semi. I'm not complaining about that, we're fine, and we will be able to upsize significantly in a couple of years whatever the market conditions.

But now imagine someone on my wife's stepfather's salary, let alone on the average wage. 3 bed semis around here start at about £450k. That's >10x his salary and closer to 14x the average salary.

He wouldn't be able to afford one if he were a first time buyer today, at most a lender would only give him half that.

These are fundamental shifts in affordability that completely change everything. They're not opinion.

 

[fez]

Your son was frugal, had no help from mum and dad and still had to wait into his 30's to be able to move out.

Being able to live at home for however long and not paying through the nose for everything is help. I would bet a fair amount of money that "paying his way" was about 1/5th of what he would have been paying in the real world.

 

[GordyR]

and as the saying goes - lies, damn liess and statistics, they can all be manipulated to fit whatever rhetoric that suits.

Please do so.

Provide me some statistics around house affordability that you are able to "manipulate" in support of your argument.

I'll look forward to it.

 

[tonys]

it wasn't as hard, I don't get why people from certain generation keep repeating it? no one here is saying that the house was given to you and you had to do no work to get there. What people are saying and proving with actual cold hard facts is that it is much harder to do the same these days.

it's not that difficult to grasp it surely? do you inferior because it was easier back then? what's the actual reason for not seeing basic statistics and facts listed?

I just gave you a fact that it can be done with my son, yes if he had moved out and rented it would have been harder but I think he would have got there. Like I said he hardly spent money on non essentials, his partner he has now is the opposite despite working hard had very little money because he spent his money on the items that he did not need but he wanted (the latest iPhone, leased car, latest Liverpool FC strip and so on).
My daughter on the other hand left home at 17 and rented with some idiot boyfriends and never had much money left at the end of the day. So yes I know about both sides of the equation.

 

[grudas]

I just gave you a fact that it can be done with my son, yes if he had moved out and rented it would have been harder but I think he would have got there. Like I said he hardly spent money on non essentials, his partner he has now is the opposite despite working hard had very little money because he spent his money on the items that he did not need but he wanted (the latest iPhone, leased car, latest Liverpool FC strip and so on).
My daughter on the other hand left home at 17 and rented with some idiot boyfriends and never had much money left at the end of the day. So yes I know about both sides of the equation.

yea he'd have bought a house when he was 40, if lucky.

we're talking to a guy who claims you can do the same by just working hard at 18.

I barely know any 20 year olds with latest phones, cars etc. Most of the younger(25ish) guys I know drive old fiestas, have a smashed screen iphone and that's it. Plus let's be real, someone spending £9.99 on spotify is not magically going to come up with 20k extra for a house deposit.

 

[jaybee]

I think a lot of people today believe that the attitudes of young people have shifted to being work shy, and that they are entitled due to high consumerism, social media, youtube/influencers etc. Actually the majority of young people I speak to, want to get a job and earn well. It seems very hard to get even the most basic job these days. Work is much harder to find. I think most young people are well aware of how hard it will be for them. I don't like talking about it too much with my kids as I want them to have as much hope and positivity about the future as possible. It must be horrible to keep hearing how hard they will find it. One step at a time I feel.

To some, most even, owning property is so unachievable, it becomes a life choice to not worry about it and live life. The vast majority will end up going down the path of rent trap for life because they won't be able to hack living with parents into their thirties. I would say as soon as you move out and into rented, the chances of transitioning over to ownership becomes surely statistically very low sadly.

 

[The Angry Welshman]

Please do so.

Provide me some statistics around house affordability that you are able to "manipulate" in support of your argument.

I'll look forward to it.

could i have saved 5k instead of 2.5k ( 50% of my cost of the deposit) if the house was double the price - Answer YES..... could i have afforded the mortgage if it was double the amount at the time - Answer YES.

There answered. Have a good day

 

[GordyR]

I just gave you a fact that it can be done with my son, yes if he had moved out and rented it would have been harder but I think he would have got there. Like I said he hardly spent money on non essentials, his partner he has now is the opposite despite working hard had very little money because he spent his money on the items that he did not need but he wanted (the latest iPhone, leased car, latest Liverpool FC strip and so on).
My daughter on the other hand left home at 17 and rented with some idiot boyfriends and never had much money left at the end of the day. So yes I know about both sides of the equation.

tony - I'm not sure if you've followed the conversation fully.

The person we're debating with here complained about the youth of today needing help from mum and dad, because in his mind they're lazy and spend money on silly things.

Your son's situation was an example of exactly that. He required your help to do it by 30, even though he worked hard and didn't spend frivolously.

This is the whole point.