Mortgage Rate Rises

[grudas]

I think a lot of people today believe that the attitudes of young people have shifted to being work shy, and that they are entitled due to high consumerism, social media, youtube/influencers etc. Actually the majority of young people I speak to, want to get a job and earn well. It seems very hard to get even the most basic job these days. Work is much harder to find. I think most young people are well aware of how hard it will be for them. I don't like talking about it too much with my kids as I want them to have as much hope and positivity about the future as possible. It must be horrible to keep hearing how hard they will find it. One step at a time I feel.

To some, most even, owning property is so unachievable, it becomes a life choice to not worry about it and live life. The vast majority will end up going down the path of rent trap for life because they won't be able to hack living with parents into their thirties. I would say as soon as you move out and into rented, the chances of transitioning over to ownership becomes surely statistically very low sadly.

this is what I've seen :

accepting that they'll rent for ever unless they find a new way to make a living
accepting that they'll only buy once inheritance comes through
have already bought due to inheritance or parents helping - only know two couples like that, one got a massive chunk from inheritance and put it towards a property and now have affordable mortgage(under £1k/month)
a good friend of mine is renting and knows that the only way he'll ever own anything is by moving back to Ireland and buying land and building a property there - again long term dream thing.

 

[tonys]

You understand how statistics work right? They are data from real life and real people and your single data point doesn't disprove anything. Of course people are still buying houses at every age. The issue is that its getting harder on average.

And yes, your son moving out in his early 30s with no help from you (well, apart from living with you until his 30s, not paying remotely market rate to live with you etc) doesn't prove what you think it does. Then again, perhaps I am wrong and he was paying council tax, market rent, food, gas, electricity, water, looking after himself entirely on his own, cleaning and doing all the other life admin that people not living at home have to.

My son could have moved out and bought a house way before then and yes we did make him pay his way, probably not at the rate he would have paid if he had left home.

 

[tonys]

tony - I'm not sure if you've followed the conversation fully.

The person we're debating with here complained about the youth of today needing help from mum and dad, because in his mind they're lazy and spend money on silly things.

Your son's situation was an example of exactly that. He required your help to do it by 30, even though he worked hard and didn't spend frivolously.

This is the whole point.

My son as I have said did not need our help
His partner on the other hand lived at home with his parents and spent his money on lots of non essentials and had no extra money at the end of the day.

 

[grudas]

could i have saved 5k instead of 2.5k ( 50% of my cost of the deposit) if the house was double the price - Answer YES..... could i have afforded the mortgage if it was double the amount at the time - Answer YES.

There answered. Have a good day

how would you have done that if you already had cut everything down? where would the money come from? would you have even been able to get a loan on a property worth 100k+ in the 90s? doubtful. Gordy gave you a really good example of why things are the way they are but you're just not accepting it.

I feel like you know you're wrong but just struggle to say "yup, fair enough" or are you just mad that someone you know, who earns £35k decided to buy a Porsche?

 

[jaybee]

this is what I've seen :

accepting that they'll rent for ever unless they find a new way to make a living
accepting that they'll only buy once inheritance comes through
have already bought due to inheritance or parents helping - only know two couples like that, one got a massive chunk from inheritance and put it towards a property and now have affordable mortgage(under £1k/month)
a good friend of mine is renting and knows that the only way he'll ever own anything is by moving back to Ireland and buying land and building a property there - again long term dream thing.

That's a whole conversation isn't it. I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed with what inheritance they end up getting, what with the aging population and care costs towards end of life. I'm planning on receiving zero personally. There's a high chance it becomes not just zero, but negative for a lot of people. i.e. even after assets are gone, care costs can be huge.

 

[GordyR]

My son as I have said did not need our help

He lived in your house for 12 years beyond The Angry Welshman, who is of the opinion that because he was able to do it at 18, the youth of today are lazy and spending frivolously.

That's help. Without that help he maybe would have got there by 40, but then the chances are, whatever deposit he was saving during that time would have been outpaced by house price inflation anyway.

Was your son lazy tony? Did he spend frivolously? Of course not. This is the whole point we're make to him.

 

[The Angry Welshman]

how would you have done that if you already had cut everything down? where would the money come from? would you have even been able to get a loan on a property worth 100k+ in the 90s? doubtful. Gordy gave you a really good example of why things are the way they are but you're just not accepting it.

I feel like you know you're wrong but just struggle to say "yup, fair enough" or are you just mad that someone you know, who earns £35k decided to buy a Porsche?

i didnt cut everything down, i cut down enough to save the money for the deposit, if i needed to save more i would have cut my cloth accordingly.

and yes me and my partner could have got a 100K mortgage back then. am i annoyed the guy bought a porsche, NO..... its just a casing point on what some see as priorities, which are different to what i saw as i priority..... good lack to the lad, but if he ever moans about being skint and not being able to buy his own house, i will point at the car in the car park

 

[Junglist]

I'd say if you're moving out in your early thirties, you've had a lot of help. I stayed home until I was 25 and was fortunate that I only had to pay about £100 a month towards rent. But I also wanted to experience living away from home so I went into the world of renting.

It was only because of the help to buy scheme that we were ever able to get onto the ladder. I have a few friends slightly older than me ~38. One is single and on a really good wage but for him to be able to afford a property by himself he would essentially need to move away from everyone he knows to some obscure outskirt of Bristol

It's a dirty game

 

[The Angry Welshman]

the youth of today are lazy and spending frivolously.

They are, maybe not all of them, but a lot are...... its a simple fact

 

[grudas]

That's a whole conversation isn't it. I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed with what inheritance they end up getting, what with the aging population and care costs towards end of life. I'm planning on receiving zero personally. There's a high chance it becomes not just zero, but negative for a lot of people. i.e. even after assets are gone, care costs can be huge.

yup, but they see it as a thing that will happen, I personally knew from the start that I won't have anything but to be honest, my mum only managed to get on the ladder in her late 40s too.

i didnt cut everything down, i cut down enough to save the money for the deposit, if i needed to save more i would have cut my cloth accordingly.

and yes me and my partner could have got a 100K mortgage back then. am i annoyed the guy bought a porsche, NO..... its just a casing point on what some see as priorities, which are different to what i saw as i priority..... good lack to the lad, but if he ever moans about being skint and not being able to buy his own house, i will point at the car in the car park

ah so now it's a double income household, in wales, in the 90s, when a property was 52k to buy. Interesting

 

[grudas]

They are, maybe not all of them, but a lot are...... its a simple fact

what is this "Fact" based on ? statistically, can you show me something that proves it?

do the youth of today spend more time in front of a screen ? - yes
is the youth of today lazy - not that I'm aware, demotivated/different view and may not see as much point in certain things yes, but lazy, nope.

 

[matt100]

He wouldn't be able to afford one if he were a first time buyer today, at most a lender would only give him half that.

Cancel his avocado subscription, stop eating leased audis and getting a decaf netflix on the way to to work.

Simple.

 

[Zefan]

who says im wrong... the odd person on here thats accusing me of trolling, because i offer an alternative opinion. Yet they say im a drama queen or have a complex. bit strange really

You're not a drama queen, you are simply wrong mate. You are comparing things which aren't equal. It is far more difficult now due to house prices having grown much, much more over the years than the average salary has. Some people being lazy doesn't change this.

:edit: Note that I think the media are laying it on a bit thick and there is a "victim mindset" that I think goes slightly beyond what is justifiable in some of today's youth for sure, but it is much more difficult.

 

[matt100]

and yes me and my partner could have got a 100K mortgage back then.

You were on £10k a year. No you couldn't.

 

[The Angry Welshman]

yup, but they see it as a thing that will happen, I personally knew from the start that I won't have anything but to be honest, my mum only managed to get on the ladder in her late 40s too.



ah so now it's a double income household, in wales, in the 90s, when a property was 52k to buy. Interesting

i already stated that in my original post about my deposit...again maybe you missed it, because you were too busy typing so angrily on your keyboard because you didnt like someoee else having an opinion different to your own

 

[The Angry Welshman]

You were on £10k a year. No you couldn't.

yeh i could as my partner was on more, but i still paid my half of everything.

i paid half the deposit and half the mortgage, did i have less disposable income at the end of each month than my partner YES, did i care, NO..... i paid my half, she paid hers and the rest was ours individually to do as we wish. and no i wouldnt have done it any other way.

 

[Armageus]

I think we are done with this off topic - back to mortgage rate rise now please

 

[grudas]

talking about rates, I've not seen any drops since the base rate dropped? presume these were priced in already..

we locked a deal in yesterday, and 5 year fix was the lowest. 2/3 and 10 were higher. I expected the 10 to be higher but 2/3 were unexpected.

 

[adam cool dude]

The other issue is that currently many people cannot see the benefit of living like a pauper for years and years in the vague hope of being able to afford a mortgage one day. The social contract is being broken. My dad was a civil servant (relatively low level) and my mum was a part time hairdresser. They bought their ex-council house for a pittance and the only reason they had any real mortgage was because they stuck on a double storey extension. My dad is semi-retired and has been since he was 57 and my mum has been retired since a similar age. He does gardening for a bit of money because he enjoys it mainly.

If you had a couple with 2 kids on the salary that he had throughout his working life and with my mum working part time nowadays they would be laughed out of the bank asking for a mortgage. They would have been paying so much in rent that they wouldn't have been able to retire at any point I imagine, let alone early.

They were very frugal throughout my life but the payoff was always there. It simply isn't now. Things are getting worse by the year. Council tax rising. Wages stagnating. House prices and cost of living going up. Savings for most people are a dream. We are sleepwalking into a crisis and the fact that more and more of the younger generation are just opting out of the natural progression of buying a house and having kids is not good and not something we should be ignoring and telling them to cut down on their avocado toast and iPhones.

I was in a similar situation. My father was in the Royal Signals for 22 years from a kid and then had a second career in computers. Had two final salary pensions. Army and ICL(Now Fujitsu). State pension at 65. Mother never worked till I was teenager and only did the basic amount to qualify for a pension when she retired. Typical middle class. We were not rich by any means but didn't go without anything either. He also divorced twice!

He could have easily retired by 50 but basically had no financial worries in his mid 40's and 3 pensions to draw at 65 with zero need to put his salary into a pension pot.

That kind of life goal in 2025 would make my father look like a rich person.

I am 38 and have worked more years than my mother already. She was jammy and born in 1950 so just about got the 60 year old pension age and has been retired for 15 years already.

My best case scenario is finishing my Mortgage in my mid 40's but instead of enjoying that windfall of extra money a month. It will most likely get put into a pension.

 

[tonys]

That's a whole conversation isn't it. I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed with what inheritance they end up getting, what with the aging population and care costs towards end of life. I'm planning on receiving zero personally. There's a high chance it becomes not just zero, but negative for a lot of people. i.e. even after assets are gone, care costs can be huge.

I received a whopping £3,000 when my mum died