Mortgage Rate Rises

GordyR said:
Pure obfuscation. Why are you finding this so difficult to answer?

Which non-essentials? Precisely which ones?

Think back to your situation when you were saving for your first home.

What would you have done to afford the same house at twice the price, with a deposit twice the size and a mortgage payment twice the size.

Can you see a way that you could have achieved that realistically at the time? If so, explain in detail.
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i dont need to explain in detail.... i just would have waited longer until my deposit was reached.

Maybe its because i didnt have the bank of mum and dad available and sort out the alternatives. i did state above what non essentials i would have looked ot cut, maybe you missed it.
 
The Angry Welshman said:
i dont need to explain in detail....
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Yes you do.

If you're making an extraordinary claim that flies counter to all available evidence, then you need to be able to explain how you arrived there.

The Angry Welshman said:
i just would have waited longer until my deposit was reached.
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How would you have dealt with the fact that you would have been saving at a slower pace than house prices were rising? i.e by the time you reached the required deposit, you'd have been priced out again.

And if you had magically managed to outpace the house price inflation we've witnessed, how would you have handled a mortgage twice the size?

The Angry Welshman said:
Maybe its because i didnt have the bank of mum and dad available and sort out the alternatives. i did state above what non essentials i would have looked ot cut, maybe you missed it.
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So list them for me.

Think back to the time you were saving for your deposit.

What non-essentials would you have cut out, that you hadn't already cut out, that would have opened up enough cash flow for you to realistically afford 2x your first house.

These should be some fairly sizeable non-essentials right?

Just so we're clear - I'm 43, run a successful software development company, and I own my own house. You're not talking to uninformed 16 year olds here.
 
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GordyR said:
Yes you do.

If you're making an extraordinary claim that flies counter to all available evidence, then you need to be able to explain how you arrived there.



How would you have dealt with the fact that you would have been saving at a slower pace than house prices were rising? i.e by the time you reached the required deposit, you'd have been priced out again.

And if you had magically managed to outpace the house price inflation we've witnessed, how would you have handled a mortgage twice the size?



So list them for me.

Think back to the time you were saving for your deposit.

What non-essentials would you have cut out, that you hadn't already cut out, that would have opened up enough cash flow for you to realistically afford 2x your first house.

These should be some fairly sizeable non-essentials right?

Just so we're clear - I'm 43, run a successful software development company, and I own my own house. You're not talking to uninformed 16 year olds here.
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i listed them above...... but when i was 18, some of those things where never heard of. Kids these days want everything that the influencers put on their social media platforms
 
Just as a casing point, we have a young lad in work...first fulltime job since uni, earning 35k+. First thing he did was to get a loan and buy a Porsche GT with insurance at 2k+ per year.

Why?

why not get a smaller cheaper car, cheaper insurance, less fuel and tax...... reason:- society, friends, influencers, outside noise
 
Zatoichi.uK said:
Most people I know couldn't afford to buy the house they're already in.
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We could but we would be mortgaged all the way to retirement age and basically 200k short in the pension pot. Instead of Mortgage free by mid 40's.

It is crazy to think that only buying our house 15 years ago puts us 150k net worth better off today compared to people just getting on the housing market now and we are only 2 years older than the average age of first time buyers.

That is 10000 a year someone buying now has to find over those 15 years just to break even. That isn't taking into account interest which bumps up that number even higher!
 
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Acknowledging that the housing market is ****** and a nightmare for the youngsters of today doesn't mean that you didn't work hard for your money/house. I don't know why this needs to be said to a certain generation but it does. You worked hard and were rewarded handsomely for it. You can currently work hard and not be rewarded for it. Most people need two incomes to afford a basic house and we are seeing more and more that the salaries required to acquire a certain level of house are constantly increasing.

You can argue against this as much as you like but fundamentally the statistics and data are against you.
 
GordyR said:
What non-essentials would you have cut out, that you hadn't already cut out, that would have opened up enough cash flow for you to realistically afford 2x your first house.
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The Angry Welshman said:
maybe go out less at weekends, have one holiday a year instead of 3 or 4...... dont drink or smoke, which costs a hell of lot thee days. Buy a cheaper car rather than the PCP contract so you look good around your friends, ditch the expensive iphone and get a cheaper alternative, dont change them every year. theres may things people can do, but lifestyles wont allow it anymore.
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@The Angry Welshman Just to be clear, as I'm not trying to catch you out here, you were doing all of that stuff while saving for your first house!?

And you could have just done it less to afford a house twice as expensive?
 
The Angry Welshman said:
i listed them above...... but when i was 18, some of those things where never heard of. Kids these days want everything that the influencers put on their social media platforms
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Found them... You edited them in after I had already responded.

The Angry Welshman said:
maybe go out less at weekends, have one holiday a year instead of 3 or 4...... dont drink or smoke, which costs a hell of lot thee days. Buy a cheaper car rather than the PCP contract so you look good around your friends, ditch the expensive iphone and get a cheaper alternative, dont change them every year. theres may things people can do, but lifestyles wont allow it anymore.
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Let's ignore the fact that it's competely ludicrous that you think that young people haven't already cut absolutely everything to the bone just in order to pay rent and survive, let alone save for a house deposit.

And let's ignore the fact that you appear to be under the asburd impression that somehow these items would even scratch the sides in terms of being able to afford a house at double the value.

Far more importantly, this isn't close to being an answer to my question.

We are talking about you and what you would have done to afford a house of twice the value, on your income back then.

I'll ask one final time - What non-essentials, that you hadn't already cut out, would you have cut out, that would have enabled you to buy a house of twice the value.

Do you not understand that this an excerise aimed at helping you realise in real terms how today's economic situation would have felt for you back then?

The point is, you wouldn't have been able to get on the property ladder; and I suspect you already realise it; hence the obfuscation and continual (and completely incorrect) wasteful youth cliche.
 
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The other issue is that currently many people cannot see the benefit of living like a pauper for years and years in the vague hope of being able to afford a mortgage one day. The social contract is being broken. My dad was a civil servant (relatively low level) and my mum was a part time hairdresser. They bought their ex-council house for a pittance and the only reason they had any real mortgage was because they stuck on a double storey extension. My dad is semi-retired and has been since he was 57 and my mum has been retired since a similar age. He does gardening for a bit of money because he enjoys it mainly.

If you had a couple with 2 kids on the salary that he had throughout his working life and with my mum working part time nowadays they would be laughed out of the bank asking for a mortgage. They would have been paying so much in rent that they wouldn't have been able to retire at any point I imagine, let alone early.

They were very frugal throughout my life but the payoff was always there. It simply isn't now. Things are getting worse by the year. Council tax rising. Wages stagnating. House prices and cost of living going up. Savings for most people are a dream. We are sleepwalking into a crisis and the fact that more and more of the younger generation are just opting out of the natural progression of buying a house and having kids is not good and not something we should be ignoring and telling them to cut down on their avocado toast and iPhones.
 
The Angry Welshman said:
Just as a casing point, we have a young lad in work...first fulltime job since uni, earning 35k+. First thing he did was to get a loan and buy a Porsche GT with insurance at 2k+ per year.

Why?

why not get a smaller cheaper car, cheaper insurance, less fuel and tax...... reason:- society, friends, influencers, outside noise
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Their priorities are completely different to the older generation, we had no mobile phones, streaming platforms, Internet access, easier access to credit, fixed interest mortgages, easier access to mortgage funds, etc. I've said before that the reality of buying a house 40yrs ago was, probably, just as hard as today. We had to both save up for the deposit of our first house, we had to wait for the funds to be available from the Building Society(not, a sign here and the money is in your account straight away type of thing). We had interest rates going up almost daily at several points through our mortgage, we still had to find that money from somewhere(reducing spending on branded items of food was one way). Our son moved out in his early 30's with no help from us, he hardly spent money on non essentials and he paid his way with us. This was on a HCA'S wage. So real life for some can buck the dry statistics that everybody on here spouts.
 
tonys said:
Their priorities are completely different to the older generation, we had no mobile phones, streaming platforms, Internet access, easier access to credit, fixed interest mortgages, easier access to mortgage funds, etc. I've said before that the reality of buying a house 40yrs ago was, probably, just as hard as today. We had to both save up for the deposit of our first house, we had to wait for the funds to be available from the Building Society(not, a sign here and the money is in your account straight away type of thing). We had interest rates going up almost daily at several points through our mortgage, we still had to find that money from somewhere(reducing spending on branded items of food was one way). Our son moved out in his early 30's with no help from us, he hardly spent money on non essentials and he paid his way with us. This was on a HCA'S wage. So real life for some can buck the dry statistics that everybody on here spouts.
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a common sense answer from someone that understands.
 
GordyR said:
Found them... You edited them in after I had already responded.



Let's ignore the fact that it's competely ludicrous that you think that young people haven't already cut absolutely everything to the bone just in order to pay rent and survive, let alone save for a house deposit.

And let's ignore the fact that you appear to be under the asburd impression that somehow these items would even scratch the sides in terms of being able to afford a house at double the value.

Far more importantly, this isn't close to being an answer to my question.

We are talking about you and what you would have done to afford a house of twice the value, on your income back then.

I'll ask one final time - What non-essentials, that you hadn't already cut out, would you have cut out, that would have enabled you to buy a house of twice the value.

Do you not understand that this an excerise aimed at helping you realise in real terms how today's economic situation would have felt for you back then?

The point is, you wouldn't have been able to get on the property ladder; and I suspect you already realise it; hence the obfuscation and continual (and completely incorrect) wasteful youth cliche.
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i gave you a casing point above about young people...... not all have cut like you state and have no willing to do so. Thats life im afraid.

i stated what i would have done, you just dont want to see it. Some parents just like helping their kids, i get that... but for me it shouldnt just be that.
 
tonys said:
Their priorities are completely different to the older generation, we had no mobile phones, streaming platforms, Internet access, easier access to credit, fixed interest mortgages, easier access to mortgage funds, etc. I've said before that the reality of buying a house 40yrs ago was, probably, just as hard as today. We had to both save up for the deposit of our first house, we had to wait for the funds to be available from the Building Society(not, a sign here and the money is in your account straight away type of thing). We had interest rates going up almost daily at several points through our mortgage, we still had to find that money from somewhere(reducing spending on branded items of food was one way). Our son moved out in his early 30's with no help from us, he hardly spent money on non essentials and he paid his way with us. This was on a HCA'S wage. So real life for some can buck the dry statistics that everybody on here spouts.
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it wasn't as hard, I don't get why people from certain generation keep repeating it? no one here is saying that the house was given to you and you had to do no work to get there. What people are saying and proving with actual cold hard facts is that it is much harder to do the same these days.

it's not that difficult to grasp it surely? do you inferior because it was easier back then? what's the actual reason for not seeing basic statistics and facts listed?
 
The Angry Welshman said:
i gave you a casing point above about young people...... not all have cut like you state and have no willing to do so. Thats life im afraid.

i stated what i would have done, you just dont want to see it. Some parents just like helping their kids, i get that... but for me it shouldnt just be that.
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you'd have done nothing, if it was like we say, you couldn't have bought a house if it was twice the price back then. Simples. You know it, we know it but you refuse to admit it out loud :)
 
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slinxy said:
Maths… most mortgages have a penalty for exiting the deal early.

Work out how much that penalty is, then how much you would save by moving, and the cost and time it takes to do all the paperwork.

I’m within three years of a 5 year deal, I have a 2% penalty, my mortgage is 4.01%.. so I think it needs to be around 3.8% before I even start to do the maths.
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Sorry I should have made it clearer. I meant... I'm currently within 4 months of renewal as my fix is up so need to remortgage. I have locked in early on the best deal I can now get ready to start from June, which is 4.29%. That's been locked in for like a month or so with my existing provider HSBC. Now seen one for 4.16% with Lloyds.
 
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