MotoGP 2012

Darryl_1983 said:
I also think in some case people give too much credit to Rossi, the riders he was competing against for some of his titles were not in the same class as Stoner and Lorenzo. and all but maybe 2 or 3 seasons (upto his move to Ducati) he probably had the best equipment and the best team.
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I've already had an "argument" on here with Doc46 regarding this, but please tell me where the Yamaha was before Rossi got on it? NOWHERE! He made that bike what it is today, the Honda was dominant before that, oh yes Rossi was on that bike as well :D I really can't understand your statement regarding quality of riders though, Capirossi, Biaggi et al they are just two to mention!
 
The Deuce said:
I've already had an "argument" on here with Doc46 regarding this, but please tell me where the Yamaha was before Rossi got on it? NOWHERE! He made that bike what it is today, the Honda was dominant before that, oh yes Rossi was on that bike as well :D I really can't understand your statement regarding quality of riders though, Capirossi, Biaggi et al they are just two to mention!
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Both Excellent riders (especially in the 250 class), i can't argue against that, but i don't think they can be put in the same leauge as Stoner and Lorenzo. Just my opinion of course.

Would have been good to see Rossi against someone like Doohan though, shame there careers didn't overlap.
 
Darryl_1983 said:
You can't really compare the results from one season to another in a stoner vs rossi match. As the duc is massively diffenrent, but also so are the other bikes around them.

You can however compare there competitiveness with ducati against there team mates, and Stone always massively out scored his team mates, whereas Rossi hasn't managed to do that (I've not checked this statement, but its what i remember). This could has others have pointed out been because Rossi is unwilling to push or maybe he's just lost his confidence in his own ability. Personally i think he's going to struggle to overcome Lorenzo next year. I wouldn't bet against him though.

I'd never say Stoner is better than Rossi, But people need to give Stoner more credit for what he did on the Ducati.

I also think in some case people give too much credit to Rossi, the riders he was competing against for some of his titles were not in the same class as Stoner and Lorenzo. and all but maybe 2 or 3 seasons (upto his move to Ducati) he probably had the best equipment and the best team.
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Stoner is a fantastic rider, who just happens to moan a little too much about too many things, sure he won the title once on a Ducati, but after he won the title it went down hill faster than you could have thought possible, he can not develop a bike, but some how Ducati managed to understand him and built a bike for one year, that suited Stoner to a T, a big fat T in fact.

Whereas Rossi has built up a team of seriously skilled people including the best there possibly is - Jeremy Burgess, together they turned the M1 from an Iron horse to a flexible super fast bike in virtually no time at all, Checa, Biaggi and the others failed, but over the winter Rossi/burgess got the bike working. now over at Ducati they can't do it... but is this because Ducati are not listening or because they just can not make parts at very short notice? we will never know.

Rossi is older and wiser, so he doesn't want to push and break a few bones again , I know I wouldn't at that age... he can still develop a bike, with the right people listening ... and he can definitely win again, the thing with Rossi is that he doesn't need the fastest best bike out there to win, unlike Stoner, Lorenzo and Biaggi needed (hence why he didn't win the title), Lorenzo won the title because Rossi and Burgess made Yamaha what they are today.

Lorenzo is a big fat fraud, living of the successful workings of Rossi/Burgess to give him a the "best" bike, put Lorenzo on the Ducati and see if he gets a podium or two in 2 years! - it won't happen.
 
MissChief said:
When he leaves there's going to be no one to challenge Yamaha next year and its going to be a walkovers. I wouldn't be surprised for Yamaha to have both riders on the podium in every race they finish and to completely steamroll the manufacturers championship.
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It does look good for Yamaha next year, but I wouldn't bet against Marquez coming through later in the year after he learns the bike and at the least he isn't afraid to stick his elbows out and make for good TV. Pedrosa is always there or there abouts but isn't close enough for a championship.

mctiny said:
Lorenzo is a big fat fraud, living of the successful workings of Rossi/Burgess to give him a the "best" bike
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I have to disagree, I really rate Lorenzo. I didn't like him when he first came into Motogp he was too cocky and tried too hard to be like Rossi but now he's chilled out a bit and has become his own person. Hes one of the few riders that's always fast but doesn't look it, very smooth. The 1000cc Yamaha is seemingly better than the 800 was, not counting being barged off at Assen his worst result has been 2nd this year (ok he got lucky in Germany), a bike and rider aren't that good and consistent at so many tracks for nothing, they've obviously developed the bike well for the last two years without Rossi.
 
Darryl_1983 said:
I also think in some case people give too much credit to Rossi, the riders he was competing against for some of his titles were not in the same class as Stoner and Lorenzo. and all but maybe 2 or 3 seasons (upto his move to Ducati) he probably had the best equipment and the best team.
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Rossi was just that good he made others look less so and come on stoner has been in motoGP since 2002 so you saying others racing not in the same class doesnt hold water.
but as ever it doesnt last, age gets to everyone but he can still win races if the bike will let him, look at when it was wet rossi was right back up at the front . he know he has a few years left and wants a few more wins which im sure he will get
 
As a Rossi fan myself...

Stacey...very fast, luckily he's going!!!

Jorge...very fast

Pedrosa...not 'quite' the same level but still, very fast

For next year...i expect Marquez will spend a lot of his time throwing himself at the scenery before getting Pedrosa sacked to be the fave Spaniard in 2014. Pedrosa will win the odd race or two as is the season norm. Heres hoping Vale can remember what its all about and dice with Jorge, because i think thats where the fight will be...
:)
 
mctiny said:
Whereas Rossi has built up a team of seriously skilled people including the best there possibly is - Jeremy Burgess, together they turned the M1 from an Iron horse to a flexible super fast bike in virtually no time at all, Checa, Biaggi and the others failed, but over the winter Rossi/burgess got the bike working. now over at Ducati they can't do it... but is this because Ducati are not listening or because they just can not make parts at very short notice? we will never know.
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It's because Rossi doesn't want to put the effort in, according to Stacey.:rolleyes:

Seriously, what a ****.
 
i-bert said:
It's because Rossi doesn't want to put the effort in, according to Stacey.:rolleyes:

Seriously, what a ****.
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Or maybe according to Rossi and Burgess they could 'fix the Duc in 80 seconds' ?? And now they walk away after continually ****ging off the bike and the team ?

Works both ways, and personally I lost a lot of respect for Rossi. He may get the odd win but no more championships IMO.

As for Rossi and Burgess 'developing' the M1 , dont under estimate what Furusawa did !
 
duc999 said:
Or maybe according to Rossi and Burgess they could 'fix the Duc in 80 seconds' ?? And now they walk away after continually ****ging off the bike and the team ?
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As mentioned elsewhere...isn't it something like five months now since Jerry Burgess asked for redesigned crankcases to improve engine position and they still haven't appeared? Ducati's problem is the fact they believe the bike is fine and they are crossing their fingers they find someone who will be willing to win it or bin it ala Casey 2007...didn't they tell Marco Melandri to see a shrink as all the problems he thought he had with the bike were in his head?
 
jon.bda said:
As mentioned elsewhere...isn't it something like five months now since Jerry Burgess asked for redesigned crankcases to improve engine position and they still haven't appeared? Ducati's problem is the fact they believe the bike is fine and they are crossing their fingers they find someone who will be willing to win it or bin it ala Casey 2007...didn't they tell Marco Melandri to see a shrink as all the problems he thought he had with the bike were in his head?
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I'm not arguing about what went on at Ducati , more about how Rossi and Burgess have conducted themselves during their Ducati contract.

What Stoner said was bang on. 'Lets stick together' on the helmet at Mugello, when he already knew he was going back to Yamaha :rolleyes: A lot of people think that his GOAT status has been tainted by this and maybe his statement of 'the best can win on any bike' isnt entirely accurate :p

He's no saint and demands the best, sometimes its just how he goes about it. Just remember the reason he left Yamaha last time.;)

Should be an interesting 2013. Nowhere to hide now !
 
duc999 said:
I'm not arguing about what went on at Ducati , more about how Rossi and Burgess have conducted themselves during their Ducati contract.

What Stoner said was bang on. 'Lets stick together' on the helmet at Mugello, when he already knew he was going back to Yamaha :rolleyes: A lot of people think that his GOAT status has been tainted by this and maybe his statement of 'the best can win on any bike' isnt entirely accurate :p

He's no saint and demands the best, sometimes its just how he goes about it. Just remember the reason he left Yamaha last time.;)

Should be an interesting 2013. Nowhere to hide now !
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How do you know the helmet was aimed at the Ducati team?

And Stacey is full of ****.:rolleyes:
 
Who cares what the riders and teams teams think. Some might be nice guys, some might be absolute ****, we only know what we see or read about which is just a mere fraction of their personality. Better to save yourselves the worry and enjoy the racing.

Now, what are your predictions on Indy?
 
englishpremier said:
Who cares what the riders and teams teams think. Some might be nice guys, some might be absolute ****, we only know what we see or read about which is just a mere fraction of their personality. Better to save yourselves the worry and enjoy the racing.

Now, what are your predictions on Indy?
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Exactly. Let it all be sorted on the track. Can't stand the bickering that goes on and Rossi has nothing to prove to anyone.
 
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