Motorsport Off Topic Thread

Skeeter · 8 Jul 2013 at 14:04

You like him yet you want to see him in a Caterham :confused:

?

I'd only wish a Caterham or Marussia seat on my enemies

ins0mn1ac · 8 Jul 2013 at 14:57

Skillmister said:
http://www.redbull.com/en/motorsports/stories/1331598982312/video-loeb-pikes-peak-record

Wow amazing drive, bet thats proper scary at those speeds though! :eek:

For some reason the flash on the RB site won't let me view the highest res of Loeb crossing the finishing line, its an epic photo.

Flibster · 8 Jul 2013 at 16:55

Skeeter said:
You like him yet you want to see him in a Caterham ?

I'd only wish a Caterham or Marussia seat on my enemies

I supported them as Lotus Racing, Team Lotus and Caterham. Up until recently they were based very close to where I used to live. I even supported them against Group Lotus in the use of the Team Lotus name, partially because of who they were, but mostly because they were right.

Add to that, I like the guys in the team. It's the drivers I'm not happy with, especially Van Der Garde, who is pretty much useless.

Caterham made a huge mistake this year by only doing minor updates to last years car for the start of the season. Since they got the new update pack *which is still based on the 2012 chassis*, they're getting better, but they don't have anyone used to development. Hence the reason they gave Heikki a drive earlier this year in FP1.

The other teams have decades of data to use in development of cars. Old aero data, setup info, . The new teams have none of that. It's something they're having to build up as they go along.

It's actually pretty surprising how much you can derive from all that information about possible future designs. We used to do it all the time when I was doing suspension work. We'd pull designs from WTCC, Indycar, Le Mans series, rally cars, BTCC and even some of the road car designs for a new design project.

Here's a question... Possibly for JRS.

What was the last team *prior to Lotus Racing* to start in F1 without moving from another form of motorsport or buying a team?

I think I have an answer, and it was a while ago. Most seem to come from F3 up to F1, but others like Toyota moved from endurance racing to F1... which showed in the reliability of their F1 car.

JRS · 8 Jul 2013 at 18:57

Flibster said:
What was the last team *prior to Lotus Racing* to start in F1 without moving from another form of motorsport or buying a team?

I think I have an answer, and it was a while ago. Most seem to come from F3 up to F1, but others like Toyota moved from endurance racing to F1... which showed in the reliability of their F1 car.

Hmm. Tricky one that. Simtek perhaps?

MarcLister · 8 Jul 2013 at 19:13

Flibster said:
Here's a question... Possibly for JRS.

What was the last team *prior to Lotus Racing* to start in F1 without moving from another form of motorsport or buying a team?

I think I have an answer, and it was a while ago. Most seem to come from F3 up to F1, but others like Toyota moved from endurance racing to F1... which showed in the reliability of their F1 car.

Ooh, a nice challenge!

JRS said:
Hmm. Tricky one that. Simtek perhaps?

I'd go with that. Or Renault in 1977.

Flibster · 8 Jul 2013 at 19:27

JRS said:
Hmm. Tricky one that. Simtek perhaps?

Possibly, but Simtek did work for Ligier and even designed a F1 car for BMW *the BMW F1 team was canned in 1990* and ended up running cars for BMW in the DTM and did other research work for teams before setting up their own team in 1993

Not far off though...

this_is_gav · 8 Jul 2013 at 19:34

BAR, while technically not a new team (taking over the Tyrrell F1 license) were all but new. They shared nothing with Tyrrell itself.

Stewart GP were based around Paul Stewart Racing, but I believe they entered F1 as Stewart GP.

Lola, having made plenty of motor racing parts and chassis in other series entered F1 under their own name in 1997. The fact that they only survived one race (well, one qualifying session and zero races) almost renders their argument moot.

Probably getting pedantic now though.

MarcLister · 8 Jul 2013 at 19:51

Is it Larrousse?

MagicBoy · 8 Jul 2013 at 19:55

I'd say Life in 1990. I seem to recall the chassis was bought in from another failed project but the team and engine were all new. The whole project was a complete embarrassment.

MagicBoy · 8 Jul 2013 at 19:59

MarcLister said:
Is it Larrousse?

Nah, they bought chassis from Lola in the early years.

BAR are out for the same reason - they used Reynard.

Outcast · 8 Jul 2013 at 20:06

Pacific ?

MarcLister · 8 Jul 2013 at 20:08

Outcast said:
Pacific ?

Formula Ford, F3 etc before F1.

Hmm, this is a challenge after all!

LizardKing · 8 Jul 2013 at 20:27

Lamborghini, though they did produce engines beforehand.

leaskovski · 8 Jul 2013 at 20:54

I would say fondmetal, though wiki says they did engines the year before they did f1

Edit, it turns out I can't read.

Larrousse

El_Watcher · 8 Jul 2013 at 21:18

Ligier?

Flibster · 8 Jul 2013 at 22:07

MarcLister said:
Is it Larrousse?

That's who I think.

Apart from the owner being an ex-racer, no previous motorsport involvement on the team side. Setup to go into F1.

Yes, they bought a chassis, but so did many teams who moved up to F1 from other levels of motorsport.

Skeeter · 8 Jul 2013 at 22:20

Would USF1 been on this list had they made it to the grid?

JRS · 8 Jul 2013 at 23:06

Flibster said:
Possibly, but Simtek did work for Ligier and even designed a F1 car for BMW *the BMW F1 team was canned in 1990* and ended up running cars for BMW in the DTM and did other research work for teams before setting up their own team in 1993

Not far off though...

I'd forgotten that they did anything for the DTM. And yes, they did design a car for BMW's abortive attempt at F1 in 1990 - it ended up being sold to Andrea Moda, who ran it in 1992 as the S921 which was an appalling heap of ****. So if we can't count Simtek, Larrousse must be the answer. They had some decent moments over the years, 1990 being their best season - points finishes several times and a podium finish in Japan.

Incidentally, that race in Japan - is that still the last time that there wasn't a European driver on the podium?

Flibster · 8 Jul 2013 at 23:20

Skeeter said:
Would USF1 been on this list had they made it to the grid?

Yup, they would have made the list.
Good job they didn't. Gave us Lotus back in F1.

JRS said:
I'd forgotten that they did anything for the DTM. And yes, they did design a car for BMW's abortive attempt at F1 in 1990 - it ended up being sold to Andrea Moda, who ran it in 1992 as the S921 which was an appalling heap of ****. So if we can't count Simtek, Larrousse must be the answer. They had some decent moments over the years, 1990 being their best season - points finishes several times and a podium finish in Japan.

Incidentally, that race in Japan - is that still the last time that there wasn't a European driver on the podium?

Thing is, I know the S921 is a piece of crap, but it looked pretty good. Much like the Layton House later on. In fact, most of the cars from that period looked good. The simplicity on them just works.

As for the podium, could be. It's certainly an uncommon event.

JRS · 8 Jul 2013 at 23:33

Flibster said:
Thing is, I know the S921 is a piece of crap, but it looked pretty good. Much like the Layton House later on. In fact, most of the cars from that period looked good. The simplicity on them just works.

You're right, I should be fair - Simtek designed it for BMW to run in 1990, and it didn't get to run until 1992. It should have looked hopelessly old-fashioned. But it looked alright, especially in the black base paintscheme. A case of 'nice car, shame about the team' I guess.

That era produced some of the best looking cars since the Lotus 79. It's a shame that the rulebook has forced teams to build absolute munters for a while now