Motorsport Off Topic Thread

FrankJH · 28 Aug 2014 at 06:40

serious question which Ive always wondered about and never found an answer
(because Im sure this kind of thing happens a lot)

Given that Merc will have contracters working in McLaren's garage to monitor and look after the engine supply etc how much (beyond the basic layout and what they can gleen from cockpit readings and stuff in woking in race HQ) would McLaren actually KNOW about the internals of the engine?

Mercedes and Ferrari (renault not having their own factory team as such can be ignored from this discussion) teams will know every minutea about the engines - but will Williams, McLaren , FI even know half as much?

Im not sure how long the Williams and FI deals are for the engine but Im guessing its going to be a few years at the very least - Merc (and everyone else) knew well before the season started Honda was coming in a year or so down the line.

There are certain regs set down and others that have to be strictly monitored during testing /races that will give a lot away to start with - but most of that is public knowledge anyway. Is there really a lot that Honda can gain directly from Merc (internal to McLaren)

deuse · 28 Aug 2014 at 07:04

Back in the days of Cosworth I know we used to send them out sealed. If something went wrong it was sent back to the factory.

What they do these day I don't know, but I would imagine it's near enough the same.

DiCe! · 28 Aug 2014 at 12:27

sunama said:
Can someone explain to me why McLaren are ditching the most powerful engine in F1, for an untested engine?

If you are not a works team you get everything after everyone else. Merc have a works team....McLaren do not get the best treatment any more.

El_Watcher · 28 Aug 2014 at 12:48

deuse said:
Back in the days of Cosworth I know we used to send them out sealed. If something went wrong it was sent back to the factory.

What they do these day I don't know, but I would imagine it's near enough the same.

Surely not, as back in the Cosworth days, if an engine component failed the whole engine is replaced.
These days with limited engines per season, the unit has to be team serviceable to replace only the failed component.

FrankJH · 28 Aug 2014 at 17:33

El_Watcher said:
Surely not, as back in the Cosworth days, if an engine component failed the whole engine is replaced.
These days with limited engines per season, the unit has to be team serviceable to replace only the failed component.

Its not really "team" servicable (as its Merc contractors)

Also (I may be wrong on this) its three main parts the "engine" and the two different ERS parts , all "plug" together but essentially different parts. Its not like McLaren would change cylinders or parts within an ERS section.

~Mike~ · 28 Aug 2014 at 19:03

Listen to Lewis in a Zonda

http://instagram.com/p/sPztOLL07B/

MissChief · 28 Aug 2014 at 21:41

The engines are sealed by the FIA and as soon as the seal is broken, regardless of what failed and if anything is replaced the Engine is classed as 'used' and counts towards the quota.

Last year I think it was, in order to give Alonso a boost on they grid Ferrari broke the seal on Massa's gearbox. AFAIK they didn't replace it or even crack it open to inspect it, they just broke the seal which gave him a grid penalty. The same thing applies to Engines this season. It's the breaking of the FIA seal.

DiCe! · 29 Aug 2014 at 09:19

McLaren Employee motor show tomorrow, should be good as long as it doesn't rain :cool:

~Mike~ · 29 Aug 2014 at 13:36

DiCe! said:
McLaren Employee motor show tomorrow, should be good as long as it doesn't rain

Have fun, will you be allowed to take photo's?

Malt_Vinegar · 29 Aug 2014 at 14:36

The thing with Honda is, they will almost certainly have been developing regulation current F1 cars during all the seasons they have been off. IIRC they do this most years anyway as an engineering exercise in HQ, using the DOME wind tunnel for testing.
So, even the years they are not in the circus, they are designing and testing stuff. Once they knew there was even a whiff of joining they would have been designing and planning a powerplant, and probably a car at the same time to get some of the design principles down.
Sometimes they even build and test the whole vehicle, I can think of three times they have done this whilst not actually in F1.

So, expect them to hit the ground running, and be using the data and feedback they get from Mclaren to further improve the designs and perhaps even enter F1 proper sometime soon (again!).

Outcast · 29 Aug 2014 at 15:49

C&P of my post on OCAU

The one thing that may swing Alonso is if they start using the Honda engine this year and it is competitive. McLaren have alluded to this already.

I strongly suspect this years car is/was balanced for the incoming powerplant and that's why McLarens chassis is underperforming.

For the life of me I can't see why they'd be interested in Vettel though.
He can't make the best chassis in the field (by a country mile) work and is being comprehensively spanked by a relative rookie.

Considering Jenson has outperformed K-Mag it would probably suit JB to partner FA @ McLaren next year.

JB moved to McLaren in the first place for the challenge of competing in equal machinery who he considered to be the fastest driver at the time (LH).
If JB put up a good showing or beats FA under the same conditions perhaps that would shut up the nay-sayers ?

JRS · 29 Aug 2014 at 16:30

Outcast said:
If JB put up a good showing or beats FA under the same conditions perhaps that would shut up the nay-sayers ?

Give over! We're talking about motorsport fandumb here - a group that would happily argue that black is white once they've run out of other topics to argue about....

dannyjo22 · 29 Aug 2014 at 16:35

Outcast said:
If JB put up a good showing or beats FA under the same conditions perhaps that would shut up the nay-sayers ?

I totally agree with your post but the last bit. There is no way in hell Alonso would go to Mclaren or anywhere else where he isn't the no1. I imagine he can take the fuel out of the team mates car if he so wishes

He would certainly not go back to Mclaren without the most water tight no1 contract in history I think.

Alonso is seen by just about anyone as the best driver in F1. He doesn't go anywhere to have to worry about team mate performance. I do agree JB though would be the best option alongside him. Won't make too many waves and put in decent performances alongside the top man, much like Webber did when he learnt his place.

JRS · 29 Aug 2014 at 17:16

dannyjo22 said:
Alonso is seen by just about anyone as the best driver in F1.

Who would ever have thought back at the end of the '06 season that he'd still only have two titles to his name in 2014....In retrospect, if Ferrari had had any inkling that Kimi was going to just fade after 2007 and leave championship fighting duties to Massa then they might well have paid him off and hired Alonso straight away after it was clear that he couldn't stop at McLaren.

Slam62 · 29 Aug 2014 at 17:21

Some people are going to be so disappointed, including Ron

DiCe! · 29 Aug 2014 at 17:56

~Mike~ said:
Have fun, will you be allowed to take photo's?

Outside yes, inside....I do not know.

dannyjo22 · 29 Aug 2014 at 19:18

JRS said:
Who would ever have thought back at the end of the '06 season that he'd still only have two titles to his name in 2014

I actually argued that I thought he'd never win a title again. I still think that will be true but I reasoned that no one would want to touch him because he blackmailed the team boss. I still think I will be right and he won't win a title again but not for the reasons I thought. They just don't ignore a driver of his calibre regardless of what he's done.

You only need to look at the old singapore 2011 thread and how much was being slug at Lewis to see how quickly all is forgotten. Same with Rosberg, if he wins the title no one out side of England will care after 12 months.

Flibster · 29 Aug 2014 at 19:35

DiCe! said:
McLaren Employee motor show tomorrow, should be good as long as it doesn't rain

Wonder if Big Boss Ron will dig his 1.5l V6 Turbo TAG engined 911 out again.

F1 engine in the back of a 911. Given how dangerous they were at that time, that must have been absolutely terrifying.

DiCe! · 29 Aug 2014 at 22:06

Flibster said:
Wonder if Big Boss Ron will dig his 1.5l V6 Turbo TAG engined 911 out again.

F1 engine in the back of a 911. Given how dangerous they were at that time, that must have been absolutely terrifying.

Ive already posted about it in the daily encounters thread. Sex. On. Wheels.

sunama · 30 Aug 2014 at 15:43

Outcast said:
For the life of me I can't see why they'd be interested in Vettel though.
He can't make the best chassis in the field (by a country mile) work and is being comprehensively spanked by a relative rookie.

1 poor season doesnt make Vettel bad.
Just like 1 good season doesnt make a driver great.
You are seeing this year, how difficult it is to win more than 4 races in a row in the best car (no Merc driver has managed this). Well, Vettel did 9 races in a row last year! The guy is top class and is highly regarded in the F1 paddock. Unfortunately, the British public are reluctant to acknowledge great German drivers.

Outcast said:
If JB put up a good showing or beats FA under the same conditions perhaps that would shut up the nay-sayers ?

McLaren dont care about Button or Alonso.
They only care about winning.
They need to put together a driver pairing together, which will allow them to score the highest points. In all likelihood, this would mean having Alonso as outright No.1 and the No.2 driver willing to play 2nd fiddle (which Button is unlikely to agree to).
People also have to remember that in the past, the most successful teams have had a No.1/No.2 driver system and McLaren know this all too well.

Ron Dennis is desperate to win and is willing to hire the driver who he bickered with and (effectively) sacked. That's how desperate Ron is....and I don't blame him.