Correct. If you make a mistake on an oval, or take out too much downforce, you tend to spin and crash (Will Power said he appreciated the challenge of a car that was tricky in the corners - it separates good drivers from mediocre ones). Having a Le Mans-style blowover isn't acceptable though, which is why changes were enforced.
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Correct. If you make a mistake on an oval, or take out too much downforce, you tend to spin and crash (Will Power said he appreciated the challenge of a car that was tricky in the corners - it separates good drivers from mediocre ones). Having a Le Mans-style blowover isn't acceptable though, which is why changes were enforced.
*sigh*
Why, because they're 'only' turning left?
The fastest ever Indy 500 so far has been the 2013 race - Tony Kanaan averaging 187.433mph on his way to victory. Now, even I can work out that in a 500 mile race that means just over 2hrs40mins. Usually, with more caution periods, it would be nearer 3 hours. The track is going to change an awful lot from start to finish in that time - air temp, track temp, rubber being laid down. So you run long practice sessions to get a feel for what your car is going to do as temperatures change, work out what you can do to the car in the pits to counteract any changes in behaviour, get your baseline setup absolutely sorted, and get your head around driving around a quite difficult piece of racetrack at enormous speed.
Right, a few things here.
1) That crash you linked to happened due to mechanical failure. We've seen mechanical failures put cars in the wall in all kinds of racing series - it's hardly unique to Indy.
2) The blowovers earlier - as soon as the Chevrolet cars started having problems, Indy officials started looking at the aero kit.
3) Changes have been made by officials, qualifying was held in race trim (more drag, less boost). The entire field made it through Sunday qualifying without an incident.
I know I'm not alone in finding it frustrating that this sport only gets a mention over here when something bad happens. Same goes for NASCAR as well. Remember the furore on here when Kyle Busch deliberately wrecked Ron Hornaday? No-one had even acknowledged the existence of the sport on this forum for the most part until that.
It's not just a US thing. Most people only become aware of any Motorsport once a "oh my god look at this crash" video appears on YouTube.
Headlines like "qualifying for the South Korean Touring Car Championship concluded without incident" don't really grab people
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I for one like the 500. I'm annoyed TV coverage over here of IndyCar is poor.
Headlines like "qualifying for the South Korean Touring Car Championship concluded without incident" don't really grab people
.I for one like the 500. I'm annoyed TV coverage over here of IndyCar is poor.
Soldato
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Used to watch it every race when I lived with my folks and it was on Sky Sports. It used to be F1 in the day, Cart in the evening. Those where the days....It's not just a US thing. Most people only become aware of any Motorsport once a "oh my god look at this crash" video appears on YouTube.
Headlines like "qualifying for the South Korean Touring Car Championship concluded without incident" don't really grab people
I for one like the 500. I'm annoyed TV coverage over here of IndyCar is poor.
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My 1:18 scale diecast Lewis Hamilton 2014 Mercedes has arrived. I completely forgot that I had pre ordered it (did it right after the Abu Dhabi race last year). But the price increased since I placed the order and now I'm not convinced its worth the money 
. Its twice as much as I paid for my 2009 Button Brawn...
Considering sending it back
. Its twice as much as I paid for my 2009 Button Brawn...Considering sending it back
It's standard policy for diecasts unfortunately. You agree that the price may change when you place the order as most companies will commit to producing a model way before they have any ideas on volume or price.
It wasn't a big increase in price, it was already dam expensive when I ordered it. Its just its now arrived and I'm not convinced £140 on a display model is worth it! Especially not an F1 one, as they always look a bit toy-ish due to all the intricate parts. My GT and LMP models look far more substantial and were far cheaper. I should have got the Davidson Toyota instead.
It wasn't a big increase in price, it was already dam expensive when I ordered it. Its just its now arrived and I'm not convinced £140 on a display model is worth it! Especially not an F1 one, as they always look a bit toy-ish due to all the intricate parts. My GT and LMP models look far more substantial and were far cheaper. I should have got the Davidson Toyota instead.
Caporegime
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sigh, really, because it's only a left turn. Well done, except what you just talked about, track evolution and changes you might want to do in the pits applies to EVERY race, Indy car and F1, except on 99% of tracks there is more than 4 corners to deal with. Driving only left does give you an immensely simplified job, you focus on where the tires will have the most pressure, you know which way the camber is. Regardless of what you want to believe, an oval track is far more simple to set up for.
But again, did you add up the amount of practice? You're talking about 30 hours + of practice for a sub 3 hour race.. and you sigh because I can't get my head around that? 30 hours to work out how to set up a car over changing conditions. How much practice do they have for other races and tracks, how much does the Indy 500 track change year to year how many teams and drivers have no previous experience of the track and thus could do with the extra practice?
Hmmm,
1/ It's hardly unique... really? F1 street circuits don't have that kind of speed into the corners, almost none of them follow the same style of effectively not braking because of conserving speed. Oval tracks are about ultra low downforce, conserving speed and little braking. No run off areas at all, high speeds and walls. F1 street circuits are slower, are mostly very high downforce setup tracks, no one is not braking going into a corner hoping to maintain 200kph+ speeds.
Oval tracks are entirely unique and almost no other open cockpit series race on anything like it. Yes some tracks have walls, the more walls and the closer they are, generally the slower the track and the more downforce the cars run. OVal tracks in single seat/open cockpit IS entirely unique set of circumstances.
2/ I mentioned there had been cars flipping, I didn't equate it to that particular crash... it's still a problem. I was actually more hinting that huge big aero changes without a lot of thought are dangerous, not having a go at Indy but at F1 fans with so many people wanting massive free ability to do any aero you want in F1... that invites a lot of new danger. Fact is they have clamped down on aero because it was becoming unsafe there.
3/ People find F1 boring, people find Nascar boring, people find Indycar boring, and many people like them as well. Indycar races in the US, there isn't much interest over here in a non UK involving sport. F1 both races here, has a long history of racing here and many of the teams and drivers are based here.
People aren't only interested in Nascar/Indycar when something out of the norm happens. People will watch a video of something out of the norm happening in Indycar, Nascar, rugby, cricket, golf, NFL, NHL, NBA, tennis, table tennis.... etc. Welcome to the world, people with no interest in a particular sport will still watch a video of something spectacular happening in it.
Many people don't want F1, but will watch a video of a big crash, though would never watch a full race.
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Right, this 30+ hours business. Here's how that first week of practice breaks down.
Practice 1 - Monday 11th May - 30 cars, 1,094 laps total. Rain stopped play for 2½ hours in the middle of the session. Weather - 25°C, overcast and rain.
Practice 2 - Tuesday 12th May - 34 cars, 1,958 laps total. Weather - 17°C, cloudy, up to 30mph winds.
Practice 3 - Wednesday 13th May - 33 cars, 2,146 laps total. Weather - 18°C, clear, sun.
Practice 4 - Thursday 14th May - 34 cars, 1,995 laps total. Weather - 21°C, sunny
'Fast Friday' - Friday 15th May - 34 cars, 1,055 laps total. Weather - 28°C, partly cloudy, up to 16mph winds.
So, 27½ hours (on account of the rain during Monday practice) and 8,248 laps logged. I make that 1 lap for every 5 minutes of practice. The fastest laps set were in the low 39sec range. So hardly 30 hours of continually pounding around the circuit.
F1 holds three practice sessions in a GP weekend. In Spain, it broke down like this:
FP1 - 20 cars, 383 laps total
FP2 - 20 cars, 605 laps total
FP3 - 20 cars, 319 laps total
So that's 4 hours to do 1,307 laps. Or a lap every - gasp! - five-and-a-bit minutes.
This is also the first oval of the season isn't it? So you should really add the total of all 3 pre season tests to that F1 comparison 
Edit: yeah it is, so what you've really got is all the pre season testing and practice for the first race happening at once. If you add up everything F1 does prior to qualifying at Australia its 100 hours! Makes 30 hours for a season of ovals seem quite slim tbh.
Edit: yeah it is, so what you've really got is all the pre season testing and practice for the first race happening at once. If you add up everything F1 does prior to qualifying at Australia its 100 hours! Makes 30 hours for a season of ovals seem quite slim tbh.
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Caporegime
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I honestly don't have a freaking clue what you're trying to say here? What has the laps per minute got to do with anything, it's the most bizarre and pointless counter argument to make because... it doesn't counter anything I said in the slightest.
FP1-3 is 4 hours total practice time..... Indy 500 has 30 hours +..... that is effective 8 times as much practice.
Number of laps per minute isn't important, the point is they have 8 times as many minutes. AS for rain, so the hell what, another utterly silly comparison, Fp1 can be rained out as well, when it does rain in free practice we do get vastly less laps done. Those sessions could have had absolutely no rain and thus done even more running.
As for the whole "into the oval season", that's like saying it would seem sane if we had 30 hours of practice before Monaco because we haven't had a tight street circuit yet. Preseason is longer and full days because people are trying new engines, new electronics and can easily lose entire days of running, which multiple teams did. It's not about building up to a single race or a specific track, it's about finding and fixing major fundamental problems. Going into a race later in the season there is no sense before any specific race to have 5 times + more practice because 99% of the issues faced in preseason won't be a problem in the season. AS with the test day at Barcelona last week, even Mclaren who barely got out of the pits in preseason managed to run pretty consistently across both days. Actual testing is one thing, you spend hours taking off and changing body parts, internal parts, putting a different engine in, trouble shooting new engine maps/other software. It's not about consistent running nor building up to a specific track or conditions.
I'm also under the impression they tested both the non oval AND the oval aero packages before the season started. So again it would be like doing a second full preseason test just before any race of the F1 season rather than the usual 4 hours.
AS for the crash I linked to, it sounds now like he came fairly close to dying. Part of the suspension rod entered the chassis, went through his leg and entered the pelvic region. He lost a lot of blood at the scene after the rod needing to be cut to get him out of the car then surgery to basically save his life. No one expecting him to race again this season now.
Loads of arguments throughout last season and Alonso's crashgate as to what constitutes the most dangerous type of impact. Hitting a wall at full speed is bad, flipping is less bad, most of those guys walked away after losing loads of speed. Speed + walls with zero run off is insanely dangerous for what are relatively unsafe cockpits and these types of cars. Nascar types of cars can look horrific after smashing into the walls and rolling down the track but at least have the rollcage and are a better design of car for ovals. I still think it's mad to drive F1/indy car style cars on oval tracks.
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I am trying to say that you saying that they are practising for 30 hours solid is wrong. They are not. The sessions are 6 hours long, but the teams aren't running laps through that entire session. Hell, none of the drivers have done more than 99 laps in a session through those 5 days. It's exactly like F1 pre-season testing. They've got all day, but they don't generally spend the whole of it on-track. It just means that they can put the car together at their own pace, send it out, and not have to worry about frantically sorting anything throughout the day.
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As for it being 'mad' to drive an open wheel car on a high-speed oval....
Safety is always a concern. Hence the introduction of the DW12 chassis, the SAFER barriers, the controls on turbocharger boost levels etc. The only way of course to make it completely safe is to not run it. You're more than welcome to start a petition to get the sport ended, but I don't see you getting much traction with it.
James Hinchcliffe was incredibly unlucky to have that accident in the first place. He was then incredibly unlucky to have suspension parts stab him. Quick work by the IndyCar safety crews and the staff at the hospital he was taken to has prevented that unlucky accident from being a tragic one.
IndyCar will doubtless review the events, and make changes to the cars if necessary.
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I'd say quite the opposite. The changes they've forced the teams to make (more downforce, less power) are just going to make it less likely someone will go off. Once some one does go off the car is still going to take off if it gets turned into the airflow. The officials are basically burying their heads in the sand and hoping there won't be another crash.
Unfortunately the above is an opinion I posted elsewhere before Hinchcliffe's crash and whilst his incident is, on the face of it, totally different to the other three the fact that the car picked up on to its side so easily even after having lost most of it's speed only reinforces my point.
Chances are someone will take off in the 500, i'm just hoping they land safely and avoid having their crash in the middle of a pack.
The rules permit at least 2 weeks of test days in total, with 6 additional days for manufacturer testing. There are 3 in-season tests including one at the Fontana oval.
Since we're talking about oval aero, I do know that there was oval testing at Phoenix, Fontana and Texas prior to the season opener. Those were private tests so I don't have exact details.
Over 11,000 laps were turned in Indy 500 practice, there was also an open test at the beginning of May which is in addition to what I've stated above.