Motorsport Off Topic Thread
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Soldato
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They wouldn't. I was trying to clear up what looked like a misunderstanding of what sunama was suggesting. There's no way Mercedes will supply McLaren with engines. And even if they did the chassis would be miles off the pace. I think McLaren have more chance of getting engines from Ferrari than they have with Mercedes.
Well, quite.
I understood what sunama wrote, it was in English and reasonably clear. I just don't understand why he wrote it, because it's utter ********
I hear there may be a Renault engine supply looking for a new home.....
That wouldn't be bad. Ron making good on his promise to Michael Andretti of a Renault engine supply. Only a little over two decades late
Soldato
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There is that. Of all the not going to happen events in F1 Mercedes and McLaren going back into partnership is about the most unlikely of those events.Well, quite.
I understood what sunama wrote, it was in English and reasonably clear. I just don't understand why he wrote it, because it's utter ********
Full FIA press release
Well... usual stream of 'we're going to do this!' without actually saying anything about how really.
Reduction of driver aids and coaching. Good. But, what driver aids? Going to force them to have H patten boxes and the steering wheel from a 80's turbo car fitted and remove the radio?
Ooooh... new exhausts... Meh.
Honda allowed a 5th engine in 2015. Fair enough. But a touch late after Alonso's 20 place penalty at the last race? Going to ignore their next engine change as they've now already served a penalty that they shouldn't have had?
The rest is just pure fluff.
Well... usual stream of 'we're going to do this!' without actually saying anything about how really.
Reduction of driver aids and coaching. Good. But, what driver aids? Going to force them to have H patten boxes and the steering wheel from a 80's turbo car fitted and remove the radio?
Ooooh... new exhausts... Meh.
Honda allowed a 5th engine in 2015. Fair enough. But a touch late after Alonso's 20 place penalty at the last race? Going to ignore their next engine change as they've now already served a penalty that they shouldn't have had?
The rest is just pure fluff.
Soldato
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FIA/FOM/SG said:
Irrespective of how little the group gets done, that worries me. There's obviously been discussion of shorter sprint races for a number of years now, but for me one of the few things right with F1 is the format of the weekend.
After they changed from the 2 hour-long qualifying sessions in 1996, we went through about a million different qualifying formats and changes before the nail was hit on the head with the current system (in my opinion). Don't change something for the sake of change. There are far more important factors that need full focus.
In part, the semi-auto starts. They want to have completely manual starts without funky clutch settings.
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Big on promises but light on detail. Also increase downforce so cars can't follow each other again?
So the rumours appear to be that Renault will be buying back a controlling share Lotus Mercedes (formerly Lotus Renault, and Renault) and then buying out the Mercedes engine contract from Lotus Mercedes to make it either Lotus Renault again, or just Renault, again.
But considering that the team spend most of the time it was called Renault not being owned by Renault, now that Renault own it again, I imagine they will call it Bob.
But considering that the team spend most of the time it was called Renault not being owned by Renault, now that Renault own it again, I imagine they will call it Bob.
Then spend the next few years languishing towards the back of the grid before selling it all again...and the F1 merry-go-round continues.I wonder how well the "extra engine for a manufacturer in their first year" rule has been worded? What are the chances of Red Bull turning up with a 'Nissan' engine next year that looks suspiciously similar to the Renault and demanding a 5th engine?
It will be manufacturer not branded name. The maker of the Renault unit is Renault F1, and the Mercedes is Mercedes HPP. I imagine they could call them whatever they want and they will still be considered the same manufacturer.
There's a two important differences between Williams in 2004 and 2015 :
1) Works engine deal, therefore the years worth of engines cost BMW $90m (equivalent to $113m in 2015 $US). Williams are a Mercedes customer in 2015 so the $15m is coming out of the teams budget.
2) 2004 - 19 engines per car per season vs 2015 - 4 engines per car per season
1) Works engine deal, therefore the years worth of engines cost BMW $90m (equivalent to $113m in 2015 $US). Williams are a Mercedes customer in 2015 so the $15m is coming out of the teams budget.
2) 2004 - 19 engines per car per season vs 2015 - 4 engines per car per season
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1) Not every team was a works team. Customers were paying for engine contracts.
2) Your looking at more like 100+ engines per team in the early 00s. Most practice engines were refurbished rather than new though.
But regardless of the numbers, its still "a years F1 engine supply" contract, and the V6s are considerably cheaper than the V10s and the early V8s. The cost of the V8s only dropped as low as they did because they were frozen so there was zero development costs.
I do not buy the whole "they are too expensive" arguments. Putting Maldonado in a car pays for 2 teams engine contracts in its self! In 2004 a team could spend 1/3rd of its budget on engines (the documentary claimed Williams was around $230m a year). Last year Marrussia had about £60m ($90m), meaning even the expensive V6s up at $20m would be just over 1/5th of their budget.
F1 is too expensive, that I agree with. But simply laying all the blame at the engines door is not just, and means F1 is failing to address the problem.
2) Your looking at more like 100+ engines per team in the early 00s. Most practice engines were refurbished rather than new though.
But regardless of the numbers, its still "a years F1 engine supply" contract, and the V6s are considerably cheaper than the V10s and the early V8s. The cost of the V8s only dropped as low as they did because they were frozen so there was zero development costs.
I do not buy the whole "they are too expensive" arguments. Putting Maldonado in a car pays for 2 teams engine contracts in its self! In 2004 a team could spend 1/3rd of its budget on engines (the documentary claimed Williams was around $230m a year). Last year Marrussia had about £60m ($90m), meaning even the expensive V6s up at $20m would be just over 1/5th of their budget.
F1 is too expensive, that I agree with. But simply laying all the blame at the engines door is not just, and means F1 is failing to address the problem.
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1) True then again I was only talking about Williams. Stepping back ... a quick glance suggests 7 works teams, 1 rebadged via the sponsor and 2 customer teams (Jordan and Minardi) in 2004.
2) Up to 2003, depending on testing. 2004 was the first year of engine life in the rules - had to last the weekend. Prior to that it was anything goes. Usually a BMW into component parts after a couple of hundred miles...
2) Up to 2003, depending on testing. 2004 was the first year of engine life in the rules - had to last the weekend. Prior to that it was anything goes. Usually a BMW into component parts after a couple of hundred miles...