Motorsport Off Topic Thread

But then you have the issue that one engine could turn out to be 100HP faster than the others or one engine is 20% more efficient, effectively making anyone else taking part back markers to the teams running either of the engines. Now imagine an engine that was 50HP more powerful AND 10% more efficient. You'd lap most of the field with an engine like that. Teams have shown that if they have the money and the capability they will spend everything on everything, even for a 0.1 second a lap increase. That's five seconds over a race. The current engine regulations need to stay IMO. Anything else will increase spending.
 
MissChief said:
Now imagine an engine that was 50HP more powerful AND 10% more efficient. You'd lap most of the field with an engine like that. Teams have shown that if they have the money and the capability they will spend everything on everything, even for a 0.1 second a lap increase. That's five seconds over a race. The current engine regulations need to stay IMO. Anything else will increase spending.
Click to expand...


You mean like Merc is now?
 
Alibaba99 said:
Not sure that the engine manufacturers would be happy being forced to provide engines at below cost to the other teams though.
Click to expand...

I'm not suggesting they should be. I'm suggesting they have a fixed price though. To make it predictable for all teams. Rumors were that Red Bull were being quoted more than double the normal price for engines from some suppliers.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
You mean like Merc is now?
Click to expand...

Except the Mercedes engine is none of these things? When you see all the fuel used/remaining graphic all the engines are more or less the same, within a few percent, as you'd expect. The Mercedes was streets ahead in 2014 because Mercedes spent the most. Ferrari have caught up this year and I'd expect it to be closer next season.

Dominance only leads to one thing. Well, two actually. Boring races and higher expenditure from others playing catch up.
 
MissChief said:
Except the Mercedes engine is none of these things? When you see all the fuel used/remaining graphic all the engines are more or less the same, within a few percent, as you'd expect. The Mercedes was streets ahead in 2014 because Mercedes spent the most. Ferrari have caught up this year and I'd expect it to be closer next season.
Click to expand...

They all start with the optimum fuel loads for their car, as, like before, it works out faster to under-fuel than it does to pack in the 100kg and run flat out for longer. The problem last year was that the graphics always assume 100% fuel capacity.

Even within the team last year Rosberg and Hamilton were starting on different levels of fuel, which I assume was simply driver preference.

I've no idea if that's the same this year as fuel load has been far less relevant to the fans so I stopped looking, but we know the Honda was horrendously fuel inefficient due to admission from the team (presumably as they were on the throttle for longer as they were slower down the straight bits) yet that wasn't always reflected in the graphics.
 
MissChief said:
Except the Mercedes engine is none of these things? When you see all the fuel used/remaining graphic all the engines are more or less the same, within a few percent, as you'd expect. The Mercedes was streets ahead in 2014 because Mercedes spent the most. Ferrari have caught up this year and I'd expect it to be closer next season.

Dominance only leads to one thing. Well, two actually. Boring races and higher expenditure from others playing catch up.
Click to expand...

The Mercedes was way ahead in '14 as they realised that the key to the power system was the MGU-H. They fitted a sodding great compressor to the turbo which means that they can deliver the required mass flow of air at a lower turbo speed, giving far greater headroom to pull electrical power from the system. Ferrari was stuck last year as their compressor was in the middle of the V and couldn't be made larger. That was fixed this year, and gave them the large increase in performance, but I'm not sure they have any other silver bullets left.

Kermit said:
I disagree and susepct costs would decrease or at least stay at a sustainable level.

Currently the restrictions on design, cylinders, materials, fuel flow, MUG and other hybrid components pretty much dictate 90% of the engine and that leaves the manufacturers 10% to hone to the nth degree which Mercedes spent 100's of millions on getting about right prior to the tokens coming with Ferrari, Honda and Renault now trying to spend millions more to catch up but as they're mostly restricted to their original design philosephy (within the regulations) its a money pit trying to hone what they have to the nth degree to catch up.

I'd image some basic rules such as 100KG fuel per race and 1 engine per event would not only open up a world of new possabilties as no doubt each manufacturer would go different routes in terms of cylinders, MUG, turbo, supercharger, and anything else they can dream up as each resulting power unit would differ, they're would less of a money pit as you don't have to spend £10's of millions honing a good design that works.

As a bonus, new hybrid technology that can be surplanted to road cars will come on leaps and bounds as whose to say the current formula with 1.6L, 4 pots, MUG et al is the most efficient way to make use of 100KG's of fuel?
Click to expand...

You only have to look at WEC to see that doesn't work. Last year the cars used flywheel, battery and super capacitor hybrid storage systems, this year they are all using batteries.

Toyota are also dropping their large capacity N/A engine in favour of a smaller forced induction unit, though Audi are staying diesel.
 
MissChief said:
Except the Mercedes engine is none of these things? When you see all the fuel used/remaining graphic all the engines are more or less the same, within a few percent, as you'd expect. The Mercedes was streets ahead in 2014 because Mercedes spent the most. Ferrari have caught up this year and I'd expect it to be closer next season.
Click to expand...

No its got nothing to do with the fuel graphic or how much they spent, Mercedes have always been able to run there PU harder for longer, that is down to one reason, it uses less fuel.

The less fuel you use, the less you have to put in the car making it lighter and thus faster. Or alternatively the less fuel you use you can run the engine in a higher map for longer thus making it faster.

In reality its a combination of the two which is determined by computer simulation.
 
Alibaba99 said:
You only have to look at WEC to see that doesn't work. Last year the cars used flywheel, battery and super capacitor hybrid storage systems, this year they are all using batteries.

Toyota are also dropping their large capacity N/A engine in favour of a smaller forced induction unit, though Audi are staying diesel.
Click to expand...

There's always a best way to do something, and given enough time teams of the world's best people will always all arrive at that same conclusion.

Its a shame that WEC is losing the diversity it had. The only reason Audi are still running diesel is because they have invested heavily in it as a marketing platform. If F1 went open format, the only major difference you might see is Ferrari running a higher cylinder count V as that's where there road car focus is. But that would be a decision driven by their marketing department rather than pure performance.
 
qGsYbya.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom