Motorsport Off Topic Thread

LzR · 14 May 2016 at 10:19

Random thought: Just watching the build up to the F1 and there was a snippet about Williams on there and they said that they seemed to be overlooked by people, which I guess is near the mark. Obviously if they start winning this will change, but with a customer mercedes engine are they ever going to win? This got me thinking (I know, amazing) about RBR with their works engine (albeit with different branding) which is improving. If Renault and say Honda get up to speed with their works engines and become fully competitive, do you think that teams running customer mercedes units will jump ship if they are offered works spec from other manufacturers? If they did, what would be the consequence for mercedes?

Jay

MissChief · 14 May 2016 at 15:50

Don't the rules currently state that all engines and parts must be the same across all teams now?

Marvin · 14 May 2016 at 17:44

I think that's from 2017 as part of the rules? Mercedes were running a different spec engine for much of last year too.

The main issue, as I understand it, is that Mercedes has special modes and things that the customer teams can't access, so even with the "same engine" it's not the same engine.

Skeeter · 15 May 2016 at 00:47

MissChief said:
Don't the rules currently state that all engines and parts must be the same across all teams now?

No.

Marvin said:
I think that's from 2017 as part of the rules?

Sort of. Manufacturers can only homilgate 1 engine per season (the same as now), but they have been forced into providing upgrades to customer teams "in a timely manner", which in effect means if Mercedes adds an upgrade to its engine, the next time any customer teams get a new engine it must include those upgrades.

But then they have also retained the ability for the FIA to approve the use of previous season engines, so we will still likely have a mish mash grid of a mix of specs with the manufacturer teams retaining an advantage, just like now.

After all, it is the manufacturers who have written these rules...

LzR · 15 May 2016 at 09:12

Isn't the RBR unit identical to the Renault works unit? Just with different branding?

Jay

Skeeter · 15 May 2016 at 09:48

On day 1 of the season, yes. The rules don't state they have to get upgrades that Renault bring though.

Ferrari ran upgraded engines in Sochi yet Haas and Sauber didn't get the upgrades. From what I know Haas now has them but Sauber don't. Toro Rosso are running year old Ferrari engines.

Last year none of the Mercedes customers got the big updates Mercedes brought.

There could even be disparity within a team if an upgrade is only available within a whole new engine the first driver within a team to take one could be running a different spec to his team mate.

LzR · 15 May 2016 at 18:03

Thanks for the detailed explanation, I didn't know that much about the situation.

Jay

413x · 16 May 2016 at 23:08

So it really is two separate formulas almost? The lower teams do not have a chance.
Makes McLarens move seem inspired

Didn't know this disparity existed

Skeeter · 16 May 2016 at 23:09

Depends what you mean by "lower teams"?

Manor are currently running the same spec engine as Mercedes, as the upgrades so far this year have been made available to all customer Mercedes teams.

The_Abyss · 17 May 2016 at 17:11

No Sauber testing today. Their finances must be even more dire than previously thought.

pastymuncher · 17 May 2016 at 19:20

I believe they made a press release last week stating that as they had no updates for the car at all they will not be taking part in the test. Things look pretty grim for them at this point.

smr · 17 May 2016 at 20:30

The_Abyss said:
No Sauber testing today. Their finances must be even more dire than previously thought.

RD reckons two teams could fold by the end of the year

I'd say he's more privvy to other teams financial affairs than most would think as well... Sauber are going the same way HRT did.

Marvin · 17 May 2016 at 21:47

I wonder who the second team is? All the other teams excepting Manor are either factory teams or B-teams, and I've not heard any low-budget type reports around Manor this year.

Duke · 17 May 2016 at 21:57

Ron has been saying that for a season or two now. Force India would be the other I expect.

Some interesting aero and testing devices in the test today - http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/05/17/2016-f1-testing-day-nine-pictures/

smr · 17 May 2016 at 21:59

yeah FI were the other he was referring to i think.

Marvin · 17 May 2016 at 22:20

Ah FI, somehow forgot them.

Well, with their owner properly in the **** as he's currently being chased by the Indian prosecutors and is hiding in the UK, I wonder how long until they're sold off.

Skeeter · 17 May 2016 at 22:38

Ron would love 2 teams to go bust. Means that McLaren can move 2 places further up the constructors table

The_Abyss · 17 May 2016 at 22:40

Or move to the bottom!

smr · 18 May 2016 at 09:28

Rumours today saying Rosberg in talks with Ferrari and Toto would welcome Alonso. If that happened ....

!

this_is_gav · 18 May 2016 at 11:47

Dieter Zetsche is supposed to have said on Sunday that both Hamilton and Rosberg will be continuing at Mercedes next season.

I guess that was before the turn 3 incident, but since neither driver were apparently particularly scathing afterwards I don't think it will cause the fallout that Monaco and Spa 2014 did, and I can't imagine it would change matters in that regard.