Motorsport Off Topic Thread

cuke2u said:
Rather patronising, it's been done to death and on several occasions the mods have stepped to bring it to halt because no-one is quoting facts, just making it up as they go along. I'm rather hoping the mods will clamp down again.
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Merely matching your tone. You really don't need announce your "boredom", reply with childish remarks or dog whistle for the mods to censor the thread because you have some aversion to other folk discussing a topic that's in the current media, ie - BBC article, posted yesterday.
As said, it's easier to simply ignore a discussion if you don't agree with it :)

cuke2u said:
To suggest this barrister might be corrupt based upon an article that will quickly become tomorrow's food wrapper and with no actual evidence is a utter travesty.
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"Corrupt" is your word. Most of us are just discussing that if this article is true then it adds doubt to the conclusion, which would be true.
Either way, it looks like the claimant is taking it further, so if it reaches court then the actual truth will follow...that's if it doesn't get leaked beforehand.
 
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visibleman said:
Merely matching your tone. You really don't need announce your "boredom", reply with childish remarks or dog whistle for the mods to censor the thread because you have some aversion to other folk discussing a topic that's in the current media, ie - BBC article, posted yesterday.
As said, it's easier to simply ignore a topic if you don't agree with it :)


"Corrupt" is your word. Most of us are just discussing that if this article is true then it adds doubt to the conclusion, which would be true.
Either way, it looks like the claimant is taking it further, so if it reaches court then the actual truth will follow...that's if it doesn't get leaked beforehand.
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If you wish to discuss what the bbc has stated that's fine, I actually read it days ago, but to suggest it might be fact because it is the bbc when it is wriiten about what a 'friend' has stated who we don't know who they are and what agenda this 'friend' has. Does that make for a legitimate article? No, really the bbc should do better as that level of journalism is not impartial and no better than what we'd find in the sun or the daily mail.
That article should never have got past the editor.

As for using the word corrupt, I am not the one suggesting that a barrister from the highest court in law has a conflict of interest based upon no factual evidence. Just labelled what has been suggested.

If the moderators feel we can no longer discuss this, which they've done in the past, then that is their perogative, they may or they may not. But I'm sure a dog whistle is not required, rather insulting to imply they are dogs though don't you think?
 
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See Seb is getting the Danny Ric shine by being out of F1 for a bit!

I had a lot of time for Seb by the end (once he got some humility :p ) but lets not get the rose tinted glasses on he was pretty much finished in F1 by the time he retired.

F1 really needs to start moving on from the same old guys coming and going hogging the top seats, especially ones which have been gone for 2 years!
 
I feel like there may well be a possibility that Stroll gets ditched, and maybe for Sainz.

I know it seems unlikely considering he's the owners son, but he's costing them loads of constructors points and Stroll himself seems pretty miserable most of the time too.

It would be a reasonably good seat for Sainz, and he'd no doubt score more points for AM than Stroll is managing. Alonso and Sainz would be a really solid lineup.
 
Jono8 said:
I feel like there may well be a possibility that Stroll gets ditched, and maybe for Sainz.

I know it seems unlikely considering he's the owners son, but he's costing them loads of constructors points and Stroll himself seems pretty miserable most of the time too.

It would be a reasonably good seat for Sainz, and he'd no doubt score more points for AM than Stroll is managing. Alonso and Sainz would be a really solid lineup.
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Strolls had a good run and must see he’s hit his ceiling even compared to an aging Alonso. Plus he has the resources to literally go off and do anything else! Haha! But yeah, Alonso and Sainz would be a great pairing.
 
Jono8 said:
I feel like there may well be a possibility that Stroll gets ditched, and maybe for Sainz.
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I don't think Stroll will ever get ditched, but I think the probability that he decides to leave F1 and try his hand at something else is increasing all the time. For whatever reason he just isn't improving in F1. I thought he was pretty promising when he came in, but that Baku drive in his first year is still probably his best drive in F1.

He's only 25, he's got time to get into plenty of other things.
 
Mr Jack said:
I don't think Stroll will ever get ditched, but I think the probability that he decides to leave F1 and try his hand at something else is increasing all the time. For whatever reason he just isn't improving in F1. I thought he was pretty promising when he came in, but that Baku drive in his first year is still probably his best drive in F1.

He's only 25, he's got time to get into plenty of other things.
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It blows my mind that he hasn't been kicked out. I know his dad has some dream about his son winning the WDC, but surely they both know that that will never happen unless every other constructor start buying their cars from Alpine.

AM are going to finish 4th or 5th this year purely because of him. I don't even think of them as AM anymore because Alonso is driving for 2.
 
Mesai said:
It blows my mind that he hasn't been kicked out. I know his dad has some dream about his son winning the WDC, but surely they both know that that will never happen unless every other constructor start buying their cars from Alpine.

AM are going to finish 4th or 5th this year purely because of him. I don't even think of them as AM anymore because Alonso is driving for 2.
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Aston Martin = Alonso Mainly (scoring points). ;)

Agreed about Stroll. He's just not good enough and if he didn't have some kind of link to the boss/chairman of Aston Martin/the F1 team, he'd have been out ages ago. Alonso is 17 years older than Stroll, 17! And has scored 24 points to Stroll's 9 so far over the first 4 races. If we looked at Alonso's and Stroll's ages you'd expect the younger driver to be scoring the 24 points, all other things being equal. Yes Alonso is a double world champion but at 42 to be outscoring a team mate 17 years younger than him? That really doesn't look good for Stroll. Aston Martin are one point behind Mercedes. If Stroll were scoring more points, or the team had a driver better than Stroll, you'd expect Aston Martin to be comfortably ahead of Mercedes and looking at hauling in McLaren.
 
Mesai said:
It blows my mind that he hasn't been kicked out. I know his dad has some dream about his son winning the WDC, but surely they both know that that will never happen unless every other constructor start buying their cars from Alpine.

AM are going to finish 4th or 5th this year purely because of him. I don't even think of them as AM anymore because Alonso is driving for 2.
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Yeh. I mean Stroll is only ever going to win the championship if they somehow make the fastest car (and significantly so), AND they ensure he has a completely useless teammate. To be honest, finding an F1 driver who is consistently worse than Stroll would take some doing to be honest.

He's just not world champion material. I can see other younger drivers like Leclerc, Russell, Norris and maybe even Piastri (bit too early to tell with him maybe) winning a championship. I just can't see Stroll ever managing it.
 
MarcLister said:
Aston Martin = Alonso Mainly (scoring points). ;)

Agreed about Stroll. He's just not good enough and if he didn't have some kind of link to the boss/chairman of Aston Martin/the F1 team, he'd have been out ages ago. Alonso is 17 years older than Stroll, 17! And has scored 24 points to Stroll's 9 so far over the first 4 races. If we looked at Alonso's and Stroll's ages you'd expect the younger driver to be scoring the 24 points, all other things being equal. Yes Alonso is a double world champion but at 42 to be outscoring a team mate 17 years younger than him? That really doesn't look good for Stroll. Aston Martin are one point behind Mercedes. If Stroll were scoring more points, or the team had a driver better than Stroll, you'd expect Aston Martin to be comfortably ahead of Mercedes and looking at hauling in McLaren.
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You say about Alonso age being a detriment but outside of Lewis and Max he is the best driver on the grid.

Alonso at Ferrari or Macca is outscoring all 4 of those drivers.

The lineup of drivers on the grid today has to be one of the poorest in living memory but this has more to do with the cost of entry into the sport than anything else. The talent pool is far far smaller than a lot of other sports. This isn't a dig at F1 but Motorsport in general. Plato and Neal were winning BTCC races in their 50's.
 
This goes with something my wife and I were discussing before the race this weekend: which teams have the most disparate drivers.

I grouped Red Bull, Aston Martin and probably Williams as the three teams with the biggest gulf between drivers. Granted Perez performed better this week so might look a bit harsh but I don't think I'm out on a limb saying there's a huge gap between his and Max's skill levels. Sauber hard to place as I don't think I've seen enough to judge, Merc are a bit up and down the list but probably close enough to eachother overall not to add to this group. Similar with RB.

On the other end of the scale I'd probably put Ferrari and McLaren as having some of the most evenly matched drivers. Maybe even Haas close to them as well, possibly Alpine too.

Thought it was an interesting discussion and different to the usual 'who is out and out the best driver' debate. Thoughts?

Edit: removed spoiler just in case
 
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Jono8 said:
To be honest, finding an F1 driver who is consistently worse than Stroll would take some doing to be honest.
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Logan Sargeant?
adam cool dude said:
You say about Alonso age being a detriment but outside of Lewis and Max he is the best driver on the grid.

Alonso at Ferrari or Macca is outscoring all 4 of those drivers.

The lineup of drivers on the grid today has to be one of the poorest in living memory but this has more to do with the cost of entry into the sport than anything else. The talent pool is far far smaller than a lot of other sports. This isn't a dig at F1 but Motorsport in general. Plato and Neal were winning BTCC races in their 50's.
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I didn't mean to do that about Alonso's age. I just meant that a decent 25 year old driver ought to at least match a team mate 17 years older. My point was, probably poorly made, is how good a driver Alonso still is at his age. Yes, I would agree that he joins Lewis and Max as the best three drivers on the grid in what is a very slim pickings era for F1. Last year Ricciardo deservedly made his return to F1 but now he's just not cutting it.
 
An area, as well, @petridish, where I think we might find more agreement.

I guess in the closely matched category I would put Alpine and Ferrari (although I think Leclerc is the out and out faster driver by some margin; Sainz has a range of strengths where Leclerc is weak).

In the ordinary level of difference between teammates category I'd put Mercedes, Sauber, AlphaTauri (although with growing question marks over whether DR can ever find his groove again), Haas, and McLaren (I actually think Piastri is the better driver; but at this point in his career he can't match the more experienced Norris).

In the one driver is in trouble category I put Red Bull, Aston, and - with some sadness - Williams.
 
Yes RB, Aston and Williams have the biggest disparity between drivers. Sergio, Lance and Logan are all way off their teammates in pretty much all metrics.

Possibly Sauber as well as Zhou has not looked so hot recently. Though to be honest I've not paid much attention to them (they seem like the most dull team :p)

Alpine and Haas's driver pairings seem pretty equally matched.

Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes are all similar for me, in that I think Lewis, Lando and Charles edge it over their teammates, but their teammates are still very good and will equal or beat them semi regularly. It feels like if both are on top form, Lewis, Charles and Lando would be better, but if they are in a bit of a slump performance wise, Carlos, George or Oscar would beat them when in good form.

As a result, I think those three teams have the strongest driver pairings in terms of maximizing constructors points relative to the cars performance.

Not sure what to think about Danny Ric and Tsunoda quite yet. I'll give it a few more races.
 
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Some interesting thoughts, clearly some common ground on the more clear cut pairings but interesting @Mr Jack you'd put McLaren as 'ordinary difference'. I'm inclined to agree with @Jono8 that they're pretty closely matched with Norris just ahead at the moment, though I'd agree with you that I think Piastri might invert that difference over the next year or so. Either way this particular pairing interests me the most at the moment.

On RB (Alpha Tauri) the other thing to throw in the mix is Lawson. Not sure I can place him relative to the other two yet but if he gets some more time in the car this year it'll be interesting to compare them all (I'm sure the team already is). Riccardo isn't quite on the upward trajectory he needs to be to widen the gap between the three of them so I might well put all three of them into the closely matched group but with (potentially) very different prospects...
 
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