Motorsport Off Topic Thread

FrankJH said:
Surely the energy storage is the part of the unit where the battery acid is, admittedly not for a while but there have been cases where the acid has leaked and to have this location stipulated in the rules does seem a little strange on the FIA 's part.
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I doubt they use Lead Acid batteries?

LiOn apparently, or possibly 'SuperCaps' (capacitors in the KERs not for the whole car)
 
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FrankJH said:
Thank you Skeeter that was very interesting indeed, much appreciated

I do find it fascinating (and a bit of added danger surely) that the ES is a seperate unit, although I guess the least interesting part of the KERS /ERS from a technical pov. Surely the energy storage is the part of the unit where the battery acid is, admittedly not for a while but there have been cases where the acid has leaked and to have this location stipulated in the rules does seem a little strange on the FIA 's part.

In one sense its ideal for the teams, from the weight distribution pov - but I wonder how many drivers are equally as happy......
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I think its for 2 reasons.

Firstly the engines for 2014 have standardised mounting points and must fit within a standardised 'box'. The ES is not subject to this, meaning teams/manufacturers can design them however they like. I assume its to promote development in battery technology, and also allow a variety of storage devices such as capacitors or even flywheels. It would be to restrictive to lock them into a size/shape and positioning of the ES.

And secondly, safety. With these things potentially containing huge amounts of electric charge or high speed rotating parts they want them stored within the safety cell to stop them flying off in an accident. The thought of a 100,000RPM flywheel flying into the crowd doesn't bear thinking about.
 
Skeeter, that was a bloody great explanation. so much more to it than I thought and very very interesting.

Is the expectation that the new engines + ERS are going to kick out more power than current spec engines without any impact to reliability?
 
Tenzo said:
Is the expectation that the new engines + ERS are going to kick out more power than current spec engines without any impact to reliability?
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I think the aim is to produce about the same power, so say 600bhp from the V6 plus the additional 160bhp from the ERS.

We won't know the specifics until the engines run in anger, and even then I doubt any manufacturer will openly give us all the details.

There is massive potential for field spread and major disparity in the engines performance. However, as with most things in F1, these are clever people and they will likely all converge on the same solutions to the same problems eventually. I think the biggest differentiator between the power units will be reliability, rather than performance.
 
Skeeter said:
I think its for 2 reasons.

Firstly the engines for 2014 have standardised mounting points and must fit within a standardised 'box'. The ES is not subject to this, meaning teams/manufacturers can design them however they like. I assume its to promote development in battery technology, and also allow a variety of storage devices such as capacitors or even flywheels. It would be to restrictive to lock them into a size/shape and positioning of the ES.

And secondly, safety. With these things potentially containing huge amounts of electric charge or high speed rotating parts they want them stored within the safety cell to stop them flying off in an accident. The thought of a 100,000RPM flywheel flying into the crowd doesn't bear thinking about.
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I went to a presentation by Flybrid *iirc* about the flywheel hybrid system. It's a 5kg wheel spinning in excess of 100'000rpm. It had been tested to 20g impacts and passed ok, and was designed to be safe in an 80g impact.

Didn't want to answer my question on 200g impact though. Thats the highest G that has been experienced in a race car accident and survived.

I not keen on getting in a car that has one.
 
Flibster said:
I not keen on getting in a car that has one.
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Your passenger for todays is... 100,000RPM of spinning death!

timandrew_YWG-0267-600x400.jpg


Thats the 911 RSR Hybrid. The 918 Racer concept has it in the same spot, and the flywheel in the Audi R18 Hybrids is in the cockpit too, so I assume they must be fairly safe...

Would still give me the heeby jeebies though.
 
Until they've survived a 200g impact without the structure failing, I'm not convinced.

Then again, I'm not overly convinced in the safety of the current KERS systems in F1. BMW mechanic getting electrocuted, Kimi having to leap out of the car, mechanics and marshals having to wear rubber gloves...
 
Flibster said:
Until they've survived a 200g impact without the structure failing, I'm not convinced.

Then again, I'm not overly convinced in the safety of the current KERS systems in F1. BMW mechanic getting electrocuted, Kimi having to leap out of the car, mechanics and marshals having to wear rubber gloves...
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All drivers are taught to jump from the car if there is any sign of a KERS failure.
 
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