Motorsport Off Topic Thread

Mesai said:
Similar to a performance clause, why wouldn't you? If he's rubbish, and takes unnecessary risks, then they can use it to terminate his contract early.

He's an unproven driver - why would you give him free reign in his first year? RB have enough data on him to make the right decision for his first year.
Click to expand...

Yes he's unproven.. and yes they have enough data to make an informed decision.. so why put in a "let Max win" clause..

If needed put in a rubbish clause or a unnecessary risks clause.. so they can terminate on those reasons..

Are you seriously arguing, that if he starts beating Max they will terminate his contract.. lol... ???
 
SimonRigga said:
Yes he's unproven.. and yes they have enough data to make an informed decision.. so why put in a "let Max win" clause..

If needed put in a rubbish clause or a unnecessary risks clause.. so they can terminate on those reasons..

Are you seriously arguing, that if he starts beating Max they will terminate his contract.. lol... ???
Click to expand...
I'm not sure where you're getting a "let Max win" clause from?

I never said he should let Max win or not fight or give up his position - I don't think anyone did.

Bazzards said:
So that clause in Liams contract effectively means one less competitor for Max?
Click to expand...
Who said it's in his contract?
 
Mesai said:
I'm not sure where you're getting a "let Max win" clause from?

I never said he should let Max win or not fight or give up his position - I don't think anyone did.
Click to expand...

No you're right, a "clarifying priority" statement is not a "let Max win" statement

If however Liam does challenge Max, (which is highly doubtful I know!), then do you think Helmut and Jos would be happy for Max to be being challenged? Would they then use team orders? what if in the unlikely situation Liam has a better chance of the drivers title.. Would Max then point to the I have priority statement, and ensure the team still favour him??

All i'm trying to say is the statment is NOT required, so it's a strange thing to have to issue up front.. and if things turn out wierdly.. then it could cause issues..

edit: changed so it's not a contract thing..
 
Last edited:
SimonRigga said:
No you're right, a "clarifying priority" statement is not a "let Max win" statement

If however Liam does challenge Max, (which is highly doubtful I know!), then do you think Helmut and Jos would be happy for Max to be being challenged? Would they then use team orders? what if in the unlikely situation Liam has a better chance of the drivers title.. Would Max then point to the I have priority statement, and ensure the team still favour him??

All i'm trying to say is the statment is NOT required, so it's a strange thing to have to issue up front.. and if things turn out wierdly.. then it could cause issues..

edit: changed so it's not a contract thing..
Click to expand...
Yea but you need to remember that this is a multi-million (billion?) dollar company, and the contract verbosity will reflect that.

RB will have protection clauses against their drivers, especially when it comes to performance, but you can imagine that Max has negotiated favourable clauses in his own contract that could entitle him to new parts first, pit order, etc. which Liam would have to obey.

If Liam is really good, all he needs to do is race cleanly and negotiate a better situation for next year. We should only see team orders where there's a clear difference in skill and points.
 
Mesai said:
We should only see team orders where there's a clear difference in skill and points.
Click to expand...
Yeah, this part I really agree with.

If Max is X points ahead in the championship and in a position to fight for the WDC again then it's only going to make sense to have Liam play a more supporting role.

I also think Liam was quite realistic in one of the interviews he did recently where he said that most drivers, when they reach F1 in a mid/low team, are aiming to establish themselves so they get a chance with a top team. Once you're at a top team it's about proving your reliable and consistent, and not that you're immediately going to destabilize a team by constantly crashing into your teammate/the wall by trying to do too much too soon.
 
t2na said:
Yeah, this part I really agree with.

If Max is X points ahead in the championship and in a position to fight for the WDC again then it's only going to make sense to have Liam play a more supporting role.

I also think Liam was quite realistic in one of the interviews he did recently where he said that most drivers, when they reach F1 in a mid/low team, are aiming to establish themselves so they get a chance with a top team. Once you're at a top team it's about proving your reliable and consistent, and not that you're immediately going to destabilize a team by constantly crashing into your teammate/the wall by trying to do too much too soon.
Click to expand...
Helping RB win the WCC should be his goal for 2025 and If he's somehow faster than Max then cool, go for the WDC. Really he just needs to be better than Perez, which is a low bar.
 
I believe Lawson will get closer and closer to Verstappen as the season progresses, make no mistake he's a very good driver and I'm disappointed (but not surprised) to see so many people write him off before he's been given a chance. In Red Bull's eyes Lawson is clearly a number two driver there to support Team Verstappen, that said I know Liam and he will push Max as hard as possible and take every opportunity to rack up as many podiums as he can to secure a future in Formula 1. Most people expect Lawson to fail, I don't think he will, time will tell who's right!
 
Mesai said:
I never said he should let Max win or not fight or give up his position - I don't think anyone did.
Click to expand...
Obviously we’ll never know what his contract says, but that’s pretty much what RB senior management are saying…
Mesai said:
If Liam is really good, all he needs to do is race cleanly and negotiate a better situation for next year. We should only see team orders where there's a clear difference in skill and points.
Click to expand...
Tell me this, if he is that good why can’t he be allowed to race Max this season? Time in F1 is finite, why waste a year playing teaboy for Max’s ego when he should be perfectly entitled to race him.
I’m sure there plenty of examples of rookies coming in and beating their teammates - Hamilton’s first season is a great example.
weta said:
Most people expect Lawson to fail, I don't think he will, time will tell who's right!
Click to expand...
I don’t think anyone here is expecting him to fail, just disappointed that RB are so openly clipping his wings. If Max is as good as his fanboys say he is, his team should stop being a bunch of p***ies and let his teammate race him. I say that directed to people like Jos and Marko; there’s clearly people behind the scenes arguing for these clauses and it’s them who are just inadvertently damaging Max’s “brand” even more.
 
Scam said:
I don’t think anyone here is expecting him to fail, just disappointed that RB are so openly clipping his wings. If Max is as good as his fanboys say he is, his team should stop being a bunch of p***ies and let his teammate race him. I say that directed to people like Jos and Marko; there’s clearly people behind the scenes arguing for these clauses and it’s them who are just inadvertently damaging Max’s “brand” even more.
Click to expand...
The general feeling towards Lawson is quite toxic, I think he'll be in for a tough time at the Australian, Spanish, Mexican, Japanese and some of the American Grand Prix's if Austin this year was anything to go by.
Sorry the comment wasn't directed at this forum which seems to have a more openminded view regarding the New Zealander, which is quite refreshing to be honest!
 
weta said:
The general feeling towards Lawson is quite toxic,
Click to expand...
Given your username, are you speaking as a Kiwi? :) (I have a beanie from that wonderful VFX studio)

He didn’t ingratiate himself so far to the wider audience, but if he makes RB and Max’s life more difficult then I’ll certainly be rooting for him. Like I said before, hopefully he has a gameplan to perform well and get snapped up by a team that lets him race. Who or when that’d be, well that’s another story :(
 
Scam said:
Given your username, are you speaking as a Kiwi? :) (I have a beanie from that wonderful VFX studio)

He didn’t ingratiate himself so far to the wider audience, but if he makes RB and Max’s life more difficult then I’ll certainly be rooting for him. Like I said before, hopefully he has a gameplan to perform well and get snapped up by a team that lets him race. Who or when that’d be, well that’s another story :(
Click to expand...

Yes I'm a Kiwi, I picked up the nickname as a kid long before the internet and when Peter started using it.

With the exception of Wade Cunningham and Marcus Armstrong, I think most New Zealand drivers tend to be a bit uncomfortable with the media which then spills over to the fans (I hate that word).

Lawson puts huge pressure on himself, his family gave up everything to get him racing, they sold their house, his sisters were championship dancers and gave it up to support him, no family holidays etc..., every cent went into keeping him racing in the early days. I've nothing but respect for Lawson and his family and wish him every success, he deserves it as much as anyone on the F1 grid!
 
weta said:
he deserves it as much as anyone on the F1 grid!
Click to expand...
Yeah I read up on him a little bit. It’s funny,, he looks like an English posh boy if you were to guess. But knowing all that, my perspective has obviously changed on him. Like I said, I’d love for him to show up Max but by everything that RB are saying now - he’s never going to get a fair chance.

Be interesting to see if he does very well at the beginning of the season then suddenly drops off halfway through..
 
Love him or hate him, Verstappen is a generational talent, there's little chance that Lawson will show him up. That said Lawson is very adaptable and learns quickly so I expect him to close on Verstappen as the season commences.
Lawson also likes a similar setup to Verstappen so that should work in his favour if Red Bull are able to resolve the RB20's handling issues with the new RB21.

There are going to be quite a lot of inter-team rivalries next season, Tsunami v Hadjar could prove explosive, both drivers are hotheads and outspoken, it'll be interesting to see how that turns out.

Hopefully the grid will close up even more which should make for a very good championship indeed, roll on March 2025!
 
Scam said:
Yeah I read up on him a little bit. It’s funny,, he looks like an English posh boy if you were to guess. But knowing all that, my perspective has obviously changed on him. Like I said, I’d love for him to show up Max but by everything that RB are saying now - he’s never going to get a fair chance.
Click to expand...

I'm amazed how many people honestly think Lawson is another Stoll, nothing could be further from the truth. Marcus Armstrong is the only Kiwi that comes to mind who's backed by a wealthy family, but they're not in the same league as Stroll senior.
 
weta said:
Love him or hate him, Verstappen is a generational talent, there's little chance that Lawson will show him up. That said Lawson is very adaptable and learns quickly so I expect him to close on Verstappen as the season commences.
Lawson also likes a similar setup to Verstappen so that should work in his favour if Red Bull are able to resolve the RB20's handling issues with the new RB21.

There are going to be quite a lot of inter-team rivalries next season, Tsunami v Hadjar could prove explosive, both drivers are hotheads and outspoken, it'll be interesting to see how that turns out.

Hopefully the grid will close up even more which should make for a very good championship indeed, roll on March 2025!
Click to expand...
I'm sure Liam is realistic enough, knows what he has taken on and what is expected of him. It's always interesting though when a new driver joins a team that has one very strong dominant driver but I'm sure Max is just interested as well to see if Liam can push him. After all most drivers like enjoy a good challenge from their team mates because it is a benchmark by which their own performances are set.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom