Mozilla says beware Google use Bing

[95thrifles]

What if I was researching, for example cocaine. I suspect my son is taking it and want to know everything about it. Should the alarm bells ring?

No, and they wouldnt

Tell you what would it be better if we had CCTV in our houses - we have nothing to hide after all.

Now you're just being silly, lol

Basically what I'm saying is that it's innocent until proven guilty. Google use that data, not just for giving to the authorities, but they also use it for marketing purposes. I think it's a very backward stance. It's just like Facebook trying to make you use the lowest privacy settings. It's just like the ID card debate - why should we have to have one. It's about making illegal immigration harder? Everyone knows thats rubbish. It's about having all of your data in one central place. If they find your finger prints or DNA at a crime scene then guess whose going to be knocking on your door.
M.

I wouldnt have a problem with that, as I doubt would the majority of law abiding citizens, whats wrong with a DNA database so they can catch criminals?

I'm actually quite shocked by how naive 95thrifles seems to be.

How am I being naive exactly? IMO you're being naive by thinking this, what were discussing is already happening and isnt going to stop happening any time soon, so its all a bit of a moot debate

 

[Chong Warrior]

I'm actually quite shocked by how naive 95thrifles seems to be.

Indeed. I hope 95 is his birth year.

 

[lunarwolf]

I wasnt aware there were so many tree hugging liberals on here, oh well

it's tree hugging liberals that have made the climate an issue which we are only becoming aware of. I say kudos to tree hugging liberals.

I am a law abiding individual like most, and do not want to be living in Orwell's 1984. Terrorism is nothing new and it is a sad excuse to infringe on our rights.

The patriot act gives acces to bank accounts, what books you read at the library, pre-emptive detention for questioning with no charges for long periods, journalists forced to reveal sources etc...

Maybe we should ban and burn books which are deemed dangerous by some, the same who lie about WMDs?

 

[Tripnologist]

What if I was researching, for example cocaine. I suspect my son is taking it and want to know everything about it. Should the alarm bells ring?

There is a big difference between searching for 'cocaine + effects' vs 'how to cut cocaine' or 'how to cook cocaine into crack'.

 

[Chong Warrior]

There is a big difference between searching for 'cocaine + effects' vs 'how to cut cocaine' or 'how to cook cocaine into crack'.

By posting that you might be being watched for an indefinate amount of time... how do you feel about that?

 

[Tripnologist]

It really wouldn't bother me tbh.
I can understand people's fears regarding lack of privacy and I agree with those fears, even if I don't feel them myself.

 

[EsaT]

One thing is sure, Google can't afford to say anything about any privacy and rights when they're at the same time happily in bed with China.

I wasnt aware there were so many tree hugging liberals on here, oh well

Someone has to keep saying no to you commies.

 

[Chong Warrior]

It really wouldn't bother me tbh.
I can understand people's fears regarding lack of privacy and I agree with those fears, even if I don't feel them myself.

Ok, maybe a little melodramatic but lets look at it this way.

It's not just about fears is it? It's about your rights... rights millions of people have died trying to give you the choice of having?

 

[95thrifles]

One thing is sure, Google can't afford to say anything about any privacy and rights when they're at the same time happily in bed with China.


Someone has to keep saying no to you commies.

Actually commies are left wing, as are liberals, my stand point would be considered right wing, which is opposite of commies

Ok, maybe a little melodramatic but lets look at it this way.

It's not just about fears is it? It's about your rights... rights millions of people have died trying to give you the choice of having?

You're right, but people dont have the right to go round abusing children or blowing up innocent people (extremes I know) and as such anything which can be done to minimise this, such as keyword monitoring, is a good thing, imo

 

[sturmtruppe]

tbh i find bing's image search much better than google's. I always get exactly what i need!

 

[zzzJonny]

Oh dear, and this has now become "Mozilla says"

 

[manic_man]

People should be innocent until proven guilty.

Monitoring people ad-hoc (which is what happens and will happen even more, think random searches while entering a club or at an airport), is akin to saying that they may be guilty, even when the authorities have no due cause to believe that is the case.

This system will ALWAYS result in more criminals being found, at the cost of the rest of us loosing some or all of our civil liberties. Why do you think the theme found in 1984 is so popular? Everyone can imagine it, as on some levels, it makes sense.

Where 1984 was brilliant however was in how it painted the picture accepting this kind of thinking leads to.

Every single person on this planet is an individual mind, we produce abstract organisations with specific values and rules that embody a sub-set of the individual minds as a single monolithic collective. At their largest we call these governments.

I do not want a government to be allowed to assume I am guilty of every crime I am able to commit simply because of the fact I am able.

Our civil liberties are very very slowly being eroded in the name of progress and security, and quite literally the only way it can change is if enough people genuinely believe each and every one of us has the right to be a criminal if we so choose.

 

[unwashed potato!]

Actually commies are left wing, as are liberals, my stand point would be considered right wing, which is opposite of commies



You're right, but people dont have the right to go round abusing children or blowing up innocent people (extremes I know) and as such anything which can be done to minimise this, such as keyword monitoring, is a good thing, imo

i'm surprised so many people have a problem with possibly being watched, i really am. if someone is watching me right now, hello. i have no problem thinking it. i might even go searching something a little dodgy, as long as my other half isn't watching i don't give 2 monkeys who else does.

why should i be bothered? it seems people are bothered because they feel they should, instead of an actual reason to be bothered, if that makes sense.

to be on topic: i have no clue what the op is saying even after reading it a few times. google are suggestion to use bing search engine on firefox?

 

[manic_man]

i'm surprised so many people have a problem with possibly being watched, i really am. if someone is watching me right now, hello. i have no problem thinking it. i might even go searching something a little dodgy, as long as my other half isn't watching i don't give 2 monkeys who else does.

why should i be bothered? it seems people are bothered because they feel they should, instead of an actual reason to be bothered, if that makes sense.

to be on topic: i have no clue what the op is saying even after reading it a few times. google are suggestion to use bing search engine on firefox?

The thing that makes life worth living is the fact that, tommorrow, if I so chose, I can sell everything I own, go and live under a bridge and only eat strawberry jam. it would be stupid to do so, but if I want to then I can.

Similarly, if tommorrow I decided that I want to sell everything and become a crack addict, I should be able to. It will destroy my life, probably those of my family, cost the "system" money in the future for health care and the like and generally no good will come of it. In the 1984 world, I can never do it, however I have my own consciousness, it is mine and I should be allowed to decide what i do with my own thoughts and ideas.

Crime, especially violent crime, is terrible and those involved should be punished, much more harshly than we currently do. But, should they be stopped before they even had that impulse to commit the crime simply because they "might" have commited something if they wern't being monitored? No, they should not.

I repeat, you and I should be innocent until proven guilty.

Thats why I care.

 

[95thrifles]

The thing that makes life worth living is the fact that, tommorrow, if I so chose, I can sell everything I own, go and live under a bridge and only eat strawberry jam. it would be stupid to do so, but if I want to then I can.

Similarly, if tommorrow I decided that I want to sell everything and become a crack addict, I should be able to. It will destroy my life, probably those of my family, cost the "system" money in the future for health care and the like and generally no good will come of it. In the 1984 world, I can never do it, however I have my own consciousness, it is mine and I should be allowed to decide what i do with my own thoughts and ideas.

Crime, especially violent crime, is terrible and those involved should be punished, much more harshly than we currently do. But, should they be stopped before they even had that impulse to commit the crime simply because they "might" have commited something if they wern't being monitored? No, they should not.

I repeat, you and I should be innocent until proven guilty.

Thats why I care.

Your argument is counterproductive, you're basically saying that poeple should be allowed to do what they want, well OK, the government people are doing what they want by monitoring you, see your quandry?

Also your argument that you would rather see children molested and innocent people blown up than have your emails read is simply ducking ridiculous

 

[manic_man]

Your argument is counterproductive, you're basically saying that poeple should be allowed to do what they want, well OK, the government people are doing what they want by monitoring you, see your quandry?

Also your argument that you would rather see children molested and innocent people blown up than have your emails read is simply ducking ridiculous

It depends whether you look at ideas from an objective point of view, or if you look at them from a humanitarian point of view.

The problem with these things is that, while molestations and terrorist attacks being stopped is a good thing, the laws that allow that to hapen cannot, by definition, ONLY apply to those cases, they apply to any criminal activity. Which then suddenly means every single one of us is a prime suspect as every single one of us may at some point in our life commit a crime.

The idealistic notion behind 1984 was that crimes can be stopped (or if you want a more light hearted representation Demolition Man!) And that is good for all involved. However, as 1984 quite nicely conceptualised, this in turn means that every single one of us may lose every single one of our liberties in the process. And the thing in, as a concept, its a behemoth that once it has been rolled a little way, gains momentum based on the ideas that initially started it moving. It is a beast that cannot be stopped, once it is started.

Crimes that happen in this world are terrible terrible things, they are a consequence of humanity. Trying to stop them rather than punishing those that commit them, leads us down a path where no one can do anything. That, for me, is my idea of hell.

 

[unwashed potato!]

The thing that makes life worth living is the fact that, tommorrow, if I so chose, I can sell everything I own, go and live under a bridge and only eat strawberry jam. it would be stupid to do so, but if I want to then I can.

Similarly, if tommorrow I decided that I want to sell everything and become a crack addict, I should be able to. It will destroy my life, probably those of my family, cost the "system" money in the future for health care and the like and generally no good will come of it. In the 1984 world, I can never do it, however I have my own consciousness, it is mine and I should be allowed to decide what i do with my own thoughts and ideas.

Crime, especially violent crime, is terrible and those involved should be punished, much more harshly than we currently do. But, should they be stopped before they even had that impulse to commit the crime simply because they "might" have commited something if they wern't being monitored? No, they should not.

I repeat, you and I should be innocent until proven guilty.

Thats why I care.

and isn't that the case? you're innocent, and if they find something which makes you guilty, then you're guilty. so if you're innocent, there is nothing to worry about? of course there may be mistakes, we're human after all, so mistakes are unfortunately common, i wouldn't suggest stop going to the moon because there is risk involved just as i woudln't suggest stop monitoring people as there is a risk. rather then wasting their time arguing with me, i'm going to sit back and let them spend their time wisely in reducing the risk.

as much as people go against it, the simplest thing imo you can do is suck it up and accept it. this is something i'd teach little children, and not expect to have to say to mature adults. it's designed to make you safer so just hope thats what comes of it. i'm glad my tax money is being spent watching you all.

Crimes that happen in this world are terrible terrible things, they are a consequence of humanity. Trying to stop them rather than punishing those that commit them, leads us down a path where no one can do anything. That, for me, is my idea of hell.

so a police man should let someone kill a school full or kids, then after he is done arrest him and punish him? :S i'm sure they wont arrest someone that searches how to make a bomb, but they may monitor more, then if they start to act, then arrest. nothing wrong with that

 

[manic_man]

and isn't that the case? you're innocent, and if they find something which makes you guilty, then you're guilty. so if you're innocent, there is nothing to worry about? of course there may be mistakes, we're human after all, so mistakes are unfortunately common, i wouldn't suggest stop going to the moon because there is risk involved just as i woudln't suggest stop monitoring people as there is a risk. rather then wasting their time arguing with me, i'm going to sit back and let them spend their time wisely in reducing the risk.

as much as people go against it, the simplest thing imo you can do is suck it up and accept it. this is something i'd teach little children, and not expect to have to say to mature adults. it's designed to make you safer so just hope thats what comes of it. i'm glad my tax money is being spent watching you all

Why should I have to prove my innocence by allowing somebody to monitor my private life when nobody has any just cause to expect me of committing a crime?

The simplest and easiest thing is often to "suck it up", rarely is it the morally just option. Personally I chose to not lie back and lube up thank you.

 

[unwashed potato!]

Why should I have to prove my innocence by allowing somebody to monitor my private life when nobody has any just cause to expect me of committing a crime?

The simplest and easiest thing is often to "suck it up", rarely is it the morally just option. Personally I chose to not lie back and lube up thank you.

at what point are you proving your innocence? none. they assume you're innocent until proven guilty. you're out free in the world to search for whatever you want, not in a jail cell doing life, with someone saying "go search online, if you search for nothing illegal we will let you go"

 

[manic_man]

at what point are you proving your innocence? none. they assume you're innocent until proven guilty. you're out free in the world to search for whatever you want, not in a jail cell doing life, with someone saying go search online, if you search for nothing illegal we will let you go

We obviousely differ on how we see the meaning of surveillance.

A teacher watches a child they suspect of being naughty, in the hope of catchign them in the act. The police watch potential criminals (now i know this one is going to be jumped upon as why surveillance is good) that they have found through detective work, to see if they are going to commit a crime.

If Google is readily recording my activity and much more importantly, actively monitoring it for any other reason than trying to make money through advertising, they are applying surveillance to me, and sure as long as I dont do anything wrong, I will never hear from them, but thats simply not the point, what right do they have to watch you or I given this context?

Its a moral dilemma and one which has very strong points on both sides. I have no doubt that you're viewpoint will win out, the chance of saving lives always will. I just hope that, in the future, my macarbe outlook isn't the eventual reality.