MPs vote that ‘animals can’t feel pain.

Dis86 · 21 Nov 2017 at 23:04

Trusty said:
How is it not covered by the Animal Welfare Act? I thought the act covered every animal with a vertebrate

I believe this point has been explained several times...

Trusty · 21 Nov 2017 at 23:08

It seems like the same thing though.

https://www.inbrief.co.uk/animal-law/animal-welfare-act-2006/

It comes across as they've rejected a law which we already have.

Trusty · 21 Nov 2017 at 23:11

Greebo said:
Here is the wording of NC 30: "In formulating and implementing the Union's agriculture, fisheries, transport, internal market, research and technological development and space policies, the Union and the Member States shall, since animals are sentient beings, pay full regard to the welfare requirements of animals, while respecting the legislative or administrative provisions and customs of the Member States relating in particular to religious rites, cultural traditions and regional heritage."

In other words, when implementing policy relating to animals, policymakers must take into account that animals are sentient. Now that clause has gone and isn't cover by the ANimal Welfare Act 2006 (it doesnt mention sentient and only applies to domestic animals anyway) it means fox hunting can be made legal again plus no laws against making wild animals suffer anymore. Plus makes it much easier to lower farm animal welfare for when we sign a deal with the US.

Unless I'm mistaken but this is the first line.
https://www.inbrief.co.uk/animal-law/animal-welfare-act-2006/

Certain provisions of AWA 2006 apply to all ‘animals’, which are defined as ‘a vertebrate other than man’.

It's not domesticated only, it's cows, sheep & chickens etc etc as well

Sankari · 22 Nov 2017 at 02:06

This video proves that animals feel pain:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10154973010296606

Notice how it recoils every time she hits it with the whip.

h4rm0ny · 22 Nov 2017 at 03:21

enkoda said:
This is the list of MPs that voted against (source = Animal Rights UK):

Rees-Mogg, Mr Jacob

There's a shocker.

LabR@t · 22 Nov 2017 at 06:06

The hysteria around this is ridiculous.

Greebo · 22 Nov 2017 at 06:58

Trusty said:
Unless I'm mistaken but this is the first line.
https://www.inbrief.co.uk/animal-law/animal-welfare-act-2006/

Certain provisions of AWA 2006 apply to all ‘animals’, which are defined as ‘a vertebrate other than man’.

It's not domesticated only, it's cows, sheep & chickens etc etc as well

Now certain provisions apply to animals but most don’t. The important ones which were covered by this other act don’t, they only apply to domestic animals.

If they were both covering the same things why was the animal welfare act 2006 needed since we had has this other act since 1999?

doodah · 22 Nov 2017 at 08:42

Assume this is a click bait headline? Fancy correcting a few grass munchers on my Facebook

terley · 22 Nov 2017 at 09:20

I just love the sensationalized posts that say "torys vote that animalz cant feel pain" correct me if im wrong.. but the tories dont make up every single seat in commons...

doodah · 22 Nov 2017 at 10:05

terley said:
I just love the sensationalized posts that say "torys vote that animalz cant feel pain" correct me if im wrong.. but the tories dont make up every single seat in commons...

The clause, submitted by Green MP Caroline Lucas, was rejected 313 against, 295 in favour.

There are 315 Tory MPs but don't know the breakdown. My initial instinct would be vote down party line but doubt that's the case.

mmj_uk · 22 Nov 2017 at 10:15

So the EU have a law saying that animals are sentient and can feel pain but they're happy to let the Spanish torture Bulls for entertainment? how does that work exactly?

Tunney · 22 Nov 2017 at 10:21

mmj_uk said:
So the EU have a law saying that animals are sentient and can feel pain but they're happy to let the Spanish torture Bulls for entertainment? how does that work exactly?

Maybe the EU isn’t the overbearing dictatorship that some believe it to be.

Trusty · 22 Nov 2017 at 11:06

Greebo said:
Now certain provisions apply to animals but most don’t. The important ones which were covered by this other act don’t, they only apply to domestic animals.

If they were both covering the same things why was the animal welfare act 2006 needed since we had has this other act since 1999?

Sorry, I think you need to be more specific, what provisions are you talking about. Welfare Act, the clue is in the title, welfare.

Here is the full act.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/45/contents

Perhaps it was the EU's law which wasn't sufficient. It's just been pointed out about Bull fighting, you think we'd allow that in the UK if it was a thing?

atpbx · 22 Nov 2017 at 11:14

opethdisciple said:
Article.

And we trust this lot to make our laws....

Because unlike certain people not a million miles away from here, they actually understand what was being voted on, and you evidently, do not.

opethdisciple · 22 Nov 2017 at 12:06

atpbx said:
Because unlike certain people not a million miles away from here, they actually understand what was being voted on, and you evidently, do not.

It seems you didn't read the article.

Please point out the part of the article you are struggling to comprehend. It's a community forum so maybe we can band together and help you out.

Vonhelmet · 22 Nov 2017 at 12:36

doodah said:
Assume this is a click bait headline? Fancy correcting a few grass munchers on my Facebook

There's a grain of truth to it, but it's by no means clear.

explicit4u · 22 Nov 2017 at 12:43

terley said:
I just love the sensationalized posts that say "torys vote that animalz cant feel pain" correct me if im wrong.. but the tories dont make up every single seat in commons...

http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/division.php?date=2017-11-15&number=40&showall=yes#voters

Pretty clear split.

robfosters · 22 Nov 2017 at 13:23

The PM said at questions that the house recognises animals as sentient beings. I take that to mean that it may not be enshrined in law, but it may as well be as the whole house recognises that they are. I’m a big animal lover but I don’t think this is as big an issue as is being made out.

Greebo · 22 Nov 2017 at 13:35

Trusty said:
Sorry, I think you need to be more specific, what provisions are you talking about. Welfare Act, the clue is in the title, welfare.

Here is the full act.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/45/contents

Perhaps it was the EU's law which wasn't sufficient. It's just been pointed out about Bull fighting, you think we'd allow that in the UK if it was a thing?

The 1999 EU protected all animals as they were sentient. The Welfare Act just covers domestic animals.

Protected animal”
An animal is a “protected animal” for the purposes of this Act if—

(a)it is of a kind which is commonly domesticated in the British Islands,

(b)it is under the control of man whether on a permanent or temporary basis, or

(c)it is not living in a wild state.

Therefore with the repeal of the EU sentient laws, you cannot be guilty of any offence if you say decide to go torture a wild animal as they are not sentient and there is no law to protect them anymore.

So to a degree the Welfare Act was more detailed and went further than the EU law with regards to domesticated animals but our MPs have just voted out any protection for wild animals.

Glaucus · 22 Nov 2017 at 14:21

As well as no rights for lab animals.

Al Hough's saying it's about fox hunting, i don't see it. This is part of the incoming Tory deregulation for brexit.