Muhammad Ali put on life support as family warned ‘the end is near - **edit Ali has now passed away*

[drunkenmaster]

He still went with 1000s of others, just because he was cap and protested later doesn't alter what he selflessly did along with others.

He was given a choice between prison and the army, because he was a bit of a scallywag. Was nothing selfless about it.

And for a lot of people, particularly poor people, the Army isn't a moral decision: it's a financial one. i.e. it's a job, with bed and board.

Yup, complete nonsense, he joined the military only to not go to prison, he did it before the US ground war in Vietnam started, he was discharged due to not taking it seriously and being recommended to be thrown out because he was such a poor soldier, he was discharged long before the US involvement in the Vietnam war escalated to any significant level.

Being part of the military doesn't mean in any way shape or form he volunteered, agreed with their ideals or approved of the Vietnam war.

What Ali did is one of the bravest things possible, he stood up for what he believed was right, when rich people, particularly rich white people either fled for Canada, paid for assignments no where near the front line or paid to avoid the draft completely, a man realistically in a position to run anywhere in the world he wanted and continue his career anywhere else in the world but America, stayed in his home country and declared he believed the war was wrong, he wouldn't go and murder people in another country for a country that won't stand up for him.

The massive majority of people (around the world, large number in America as well though more people who still believed in it) post Vietnam War realised it was a completely unjust and disgusting war that should never have happened. Ali was completely right to refuse to fight and kill people in a completely unjustified war.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

SGF is surley trolling

Absolutely 100% not.
He was a horrible man when he changed name & faith and growing up in the late 60s early 70s I had to endure his constant crap.
As a boxer he was bloody amazing and I loved him in the ring.

What Ali did is one of the bravest things possible, he stood up for what he believed was right, when rich people, particularly rich white people either fled for Canada, paid for assignments no where near the front line or paid to avoid the draft completely, a man realistically in a position to run anywhere in the world he wanted and continue his career anywhere else in the world but America, stayed in his home country and declared he believed the war was wrong, he wouldn't go and murder people in another country for a country that won't stand up for him.

The massive majority of people (around the world, large number in America as well though more people who still believed in it) post Vietnam War realised it was a completely unjust and disgusting war that should never have happened. Ali was completely right to refuse to fight and kill people in a completely unjustified war.

I can see I was wrong about using Hendrix as an example but not wrong about the 1000s & 1000s of young men who were drafted and went willingly.

You are one of the forums best posters and I enjoy reading your posts but saying Ali did one of the bravest things possible - that is bull and you know it.
He deserved a White Feather from every one of those soldiers.

 

[jl10000]

I can see I was wrong about using Hendrix as an example but not wrong about the 1000s & 1000s of young men who were drafted and went willingly.

Surely this just proves that Ali wasn't a sucker

 

[drunkenmaster]

Absolutely 100% not.
He was a horrible man when he changed name & faith and growing up in the late 60s early 70s I had to endure his constant crap.
As a boxer he was bloody amazing and I loved him in the ring.




I can see I was wrong about using Hendrix as an example but not wrong about the 1000s & 1000s of young men who were drafted and went willingly.

You are one of the forums best posters and I enjoy reading your posts but saying Ali did one of the bravest things possible - that is bull and you know it.
He deserved a White Feather from every one of those soldiers.

Seeing your career go down the pan and facing jail to do what you believe is right is brave regardless of whatever weird beliefs you have. America has long used patriotism, bravado and fear to keep their military actions going since ww2 proved so damn profitable to them. Lots of younger guys are led to believe that joining any American military action is as honourable as fighting in WW2, it simply isn't true when the government are spreading misinformation and lies to persuade the people to go to another war.

Ali could probably have avoided front line duty, he was popular and had money at that point. He could easily have flown out to England, Africa, anywhere really and kept his career going but he chose to not run, he didn't dodge the draft he went when called and refused it which was his right to do, he went to court and the supreme court in america judged that he was in the right.

America was wrong to be in Vietnam, everyone that died over there is on the heads of the American government and those who profited from warfare, not on those who was conscientious objectors.

He didn't want to murder people because the government were telling him they were a threat.... which was a complete and total lie.

Honourable and brave is standing up for what you believe in when you face negative consequences for doing so. Stupid, foolhardy, ignorant and not at all honourable is travelling to another country to shoot people because the military industrial complex wanted another conflict to keep building weapons and making profit. If you aren't using weapons and equipment(tanks, jeeps, choppers, boats) then how can they make profit. Use them, brake them, need more, that is where the profit is.

 

[Yas786]

Absolutely 100% not.
He was a horrible man when he changed name & faith and growing up in the late 60s early 70s I had to endure his constant crap.
As a boxer he was bloody amazing and I loved him in the ring.




I can see I was wrong about using Hendrix as an example but not wrong about the 1000s & 1000s of young men who were drafted and went willingly.

You are one of the forums best posters and I enjoy reading your posts but saying Ali did one of the bravest things possible - that is bull and you know it.
He deserved a White Feather from every one of those soldiers.

Please just kindly go away, you do yourself absolutely no favours with your nonsensical posts about a subject you clearly haven't got the foggiest clue on.

You evidently have an issue with Ali mainly due to the fact that he changed his name and religion. Which he had every right to do so and obviously a bigger issue when he stood up to the US govt and told them he did not want to go to war with people he had no quarrel with.

If those thousands of men grew some balls and stood up and told the American govt they will not go to a war that had sweet FA to do with them then maybe just maybe the American govt would have sat up and thought about their actions.

But no you carry on talking nonsense like you have been through this thread.

What is most disrespectful is you and few others who think you are being smart by saying RIP Cassius Clay. When he no longer goes by that name. That is utterly disrespectful to him and his family.

Shame on you, it's like no one has taught you that if you haven't got anything nice to say then it's best to keep your mouth shut.

 

[robfosters]

The 1000's of men who went willingly to Vietnam were brave, but no braver than Ali. He fought his fight a different way and it could have been risky. It wouldn't have surprised me if he was a legitimate assassination target when he refused to go.

These soldiers as I say were brave, but most would have baulked at getting in the ring with a guy like George Foreman. Many are brave but in their own way and for their own fight.

Soldiers are brave, people who fight terrible illness and disability are brave, people who fight for what they believe in are brave. So many different examples of bravery.

 

[awaybreaktoday]

Absolutely 100% not.
He was a horrible man when he changed name & faith and growing up in the late 60s early 70s I had to endure his constant crap.
As a boxer he was bloody amazing and I loved him in the ring.




I can see I was wrong about using Hendrix as an example but not wrong about the 1000s & 1000s of young men who were drafted and went willingly.

You are one of the forums best posters and I enjoy reading your posts but saying Ali did one of the bravest things possible - that is bull and you know it.
He deserved a White Feather from every one of those soldiers.

You seriously have no clue what so ever on what you are saying and your post shows this very clearly.

 

[2013]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SexyGreyFox View Post
All the white people who helped him to get to his celebrity status for starters.
Wow you are such a racist!

Looks that way. that is why i did not reply.

 

[ak22]

Absolutely 100% not.
He was a horrible man when he changed name & faith and growing up in the late 60s early 70s I had to endure his constant crap.
As a boxer he was bloody amazing and I loved him in the ring.

I don't think you have clue about Muhammad Ali's life I suggest you go read up on his life, Ali was right to turn down going to Vietnam after all America was not attack? It was against his religious beliefs Islam does not allow you to go to war only if it is in self defense.

He was very charitable man he devoted his life to helping promote world peace, interfaith relations, civil rights etc he donated millions of dollars to the hungry & poor. He even flew to Iraq & Lebanon to secure the released of hostages this list goes on if anything his faith made him a better person. Muhammad Ali was an "ambassador of peace" just go and look up the prestige awards he received and all the charity work he did and tell me he was horrible man.

 

[2013]

To me he was a icon of man.

He made everyone he met respect him, he did a lot, he was a man who you can look upto. if not for his parkinson's Im sure he would have done a great lot more. for someone who has not done anything major in over 30 years and to be a muslim and black in a time when muslims are hated by the US and parts of the world, even trump who hates muslims thinks highly of him, to be respected and loved by the world like this to me that say a lot about this man .

 

[dowie]

funny how muslims chose to consider him 'muslim' when he's NOI yet you get groups like the alawites who are arguably more 'muslim' than NOI types and are treated as apostates by many

edit - seems I'm completely and utterly wrong on this and he converted from NOI to following Sunni beliefs... so is a mainstream muslim

 

[Craterloads]

That's because he was a Sunni Muslim, and B) stop stereotyping as not all of us brand others as apostates.

 

[dowie]

see edit above

 

[McBain]

I do find it interesting that Ali took such offence to the 'slave name' he was given at birth, considering who he was named after.

 

[2013]

funny how muslims chose to consider him 'muslim' when he's NOI yet you get groups like the alawites who are arguably more 'muslim' than NOI types and are treated as apostates by many

if muslims consider him a muslim that's their choice, but you cant change the fact he called himself a muslim, prayed like a muslim and wanted everyone to know he is a muslim.

Most people like me dont care about his religion, but some do.
What I don't understand is why some people have a hard time with him being a muslim, if he was from any other religion and wanted everyone to know it, would people have a issue with it ??

 

[SexyGreyFox]

If Ali changed his name to Abu Hamza and stood outside a Mosque in London today saying the things he said, you would all be baying for his blood and deportation.

Now I did say, if any of you lot had bothered to read what I wrote, that if he repented those things he said when he was younger that I would give him an RIP because everybody deserves a second chance.
I don't know his 'Life Story' and whether he became a good Muslim later on in life so basically asked for the answers, instead in true OCUK tradition some of you decided to ignore the statement.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

I don't think you have clue about Muhammad Ali's life

he devoted his life to helping promote interfaith relations,

What's this about then?

Like I said, if he took this back then no problem.

 

[2013]

I do find it interesting that Ali took such offence to the 'slave name' he was given at birth, considering who he was named after.

its simple because he himself found it disrespectful, So anyone who has a bit of respect for him would do the same.

 

[dowie]

if muslims consider him a muslim that's their choice, but you cant change the fact he called himself a muslim, prayed like a muslim and wanted everyone to know he is a muslim.

What I don't understand is why some people have a hard time with him being a muslim, if he was from any other religion and wanted everyone to know, would people have a issue with it ??

I edited the post 10 minutes before you quoted me... did you just deliberately ignore that or something?

 

[McBain]

I also find it interesting given he had such an issue with slavery, and oppression, that he ended up converting to Islam. To this day there are still oppressive muslim countries like Oman and Yemen condoning slavery.

By all accounts Ali wasn't the brightest spark, maybe he was confused.