Muslims/Sikhs

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Originally posted by asim
The test was not just something God decided to create all of a sudden. Its kindof a bet between God and the Devil.
cant remember fully how it happened. It was something to do with satan not bowing down to prophet Adam.(i think that was the name). Anyway satan said he was better than Adam. And in the end God and satan decided they would see who could get more people into heaven or hell.

Theres a lot more to the story. As its all so complicated. I cant remember it.
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Your more or less sopt on Asim with that story...but yeh basically when Adam was created from clay...God had all the Angels and Djiins bow down to his creation...The DEVIL or as we muslims call him, IBLIS...refused to bow down..saying that how can he bow down to something made out of clay..basically he thought because he was made out of air etc or something else..not too sure on that...the DEVIL thought he was a higher being etc...so in the end it turned out to be a fight between GOD and DEVIL...altho GOD could have banished the Devil into the fires of hell for eternity but God thought because man was his creation he gave us the benefit of the doubt to choose wot is right and wrong...so God and Devil made a deal to see how many people would end up in hell or in heaven ont he day of judgement etc...

This is why life for us is a test...its a test from God to see if we can stay on the path of Islam and not stray towards the Devils way...

It has been said that everyone on the day of judgement will invariably end up in heaven after they have been punished for their sins....

Thsi is as far as i know and have been taught from an early age...and no it is not a form of brainwashing...like its been said plenty of times in this thread that everyone has their own beliefs etc...these are mine....:)
 
Originally posted by The_Spawn
so in the end it turned out to be a fight between GOD and DEVIL...
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bro, it weren't a fight! What happened was Iblis was too arrogant to bow down to Adam (peace be upon him) and Allah (Subhanahu wa Ta'ala) cursed him. Iblis pleaded that he may have respite til the day of resurrection and was granted respite til "the time appointed." Iblis then went on to say that he will mislead mankind. Allah (Subhanahu wa Ta'ala) then told Iblis that he will burn in hell along with those of mankind that follow his path. So... there was no fight.

just thought I'd clear that up.
 
Originally posted by The_Spawn


It has been said that everyone on the day of judgement will invariably end up in heaven after they have been punished for their sins....
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Yea ive been told this same thing yet i dont know if it applies to everyone or just muslims. Because ofcourse muslims will also go to hell to pay for their sins. Yet i thought the non believers stay in hell for eternity. Im gonna have to check up on this stuff.

But it is all interesting. And all about how there are 7 heavens and you are placed in one according to the amount of good deeds you've done. The reward is basically the more good deeds u do the closer to God you are. So i think the top heaven is made of diamond or something. and the lowest one is made of iron. Im not sure about it.
 
Originally posted by asim
Yea ive been told this same thing yet i dont know if it applies to everyone or just muslims. Because ofcourse muslims will also go to hell to pay for their sins. Yet i thought the non believers stay in hell for eternity. Im gonna have to check up on this stuff.

But it is all interesting. And all about how there are 7 heavens and you are placed in one according to the amount of good deeds you've done. The reward is basically the more good deeds u do the closer to God you are. So i think the top heaven is made of diamond or something. and the lowest one is made of iron. Im not sure about it.
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This is one reason why I don't understand how Islam could be the next step from the teaching of Jesus. Jesus came because the people of Isreal needed a drastic change. They had been living by the laws of Moses to get on God's good side. But this didn't work, they kept screwing up. So Jesus came with the message that you could never earn your way into heaven, nothing that you do that the world considers a good deed would come close to the goodness of God. He taught that his actions where so powerful that all you needed was faith. You don't need to have collected a certain ammount of brownie points to move up a level in God's eyes. So why would God then send another prophet teaching a message of strict law following and an earning of eternal life if it hadn't worked in the first place.

Quote from Jesus: "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through me"

In my opinion there is nothing that anyone can do to make God think: wow, what a really great person. Better let them into heaven.
 
Thanks The_Spawn for explaining.

I did wonder about the whole "spectator" thing and if it was permitted or not, thanks for clearing that up as i did not know, shame though that a whole city is closed to non-muslims.

I did watch a documentary a while ago (all about different religions) and part of it was shown, hundreds of thousands of people there so i can understand how it would be a very moving experience for your religion.

Thanks again

Bobcat
 
Originally posted by skyman
This is one reason why I don't understand how Islam could be the next step from the teaching of Jesus. Jesus came because the people of Isreal needed a drastic change. They had been living by the laws of Moses to get on God's good side. But this didn't work, they kept screwing up. So Jesus came with the message that you could never earn your way into heaven, nothing that you do that the world considers a good deed would come close to the goodness of God. He taught that his actions where so powerful that all you needed was faith. You don't need to have collected a certain ammount of brownie points to move up a level in God's eyes. So why would God then send another prophet teaching a message of strict law following and an earning of eternal life if it hadn't worked in the first place.

Quote from Jesus: "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through me"

In my opinion there is nothing that anyone can do to make God think: wow, what a really great person. Better let them into heaven.
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Its not about earning brownie points. Or maybe it is.
In Islam we believe we are here for the purpose to pray to God, to worship God. Its a test. Can you carry out a normal life, live in society and still do all the things you have to do to praise God. Can you stay away from the wrong.

Islam is not strict. Yet most people think it is. Its a way of life. In Mecca when the Azhaan happens for the daily prayers people stop what they are doing. They leave their shops and go to read nimaaz. Its part of their life yet they carry on.

They read the Quraan. Just like you read a book. Everyday they will read a little.

Does it take soo much out of a muslims day to pray just for 10 to 15 mins 5 times a day. And read the Quraan for a little while.

A person has knows between right and wrong. So they can easily follow the right path right?

Its a test. Can you do it. In the end God will reward you for staying true to the path of Islam.


Jesus came as a prophet spreading the words of God. People then forgot and so prophet Mohammed came and did the same. Spread the words of God. Yet God had something a bit different to say this time.


p.s ive enjoyed reading this thread as much as i have posting in it.
 
Originally posted by Bobcat
Thanks The_Spawn for explaining.

I did wonder about the whole "spectator" thing and if it was permitted or not, thanks for clearing that up as i did not know, shame though that a whole city is closed to non-muslims.

I did watch a documentary a while ago (all about different religions) and part of it was shown, hundreds of thousands of people there so i can understand how it would be a very moving experience for your religion.

Thanks again

Bobcat
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no probs bobcat...my pleasure....it is something else..really out of this world for us muslims to go there and do our duty....i cannot wait...:D
just to tell u a little more about Mecca...my friends and family who have been there have told its amazing that all the birds etc that are there...DO NOT AND WILL NOT FLY directly over the Kaaba, which to us muslims is Gods house..built by prophet Ibrahim(PBUH)..when i was told that i was amazed that no matter wot may come, nothing and i mean nothing is allowed to fly over gods house including planes etc..

My apologies bigwilly...wrong use of words there i think...u are right..it wasnt a fight as such but more of a showdown between God and Devil to see who would win the ultimate battle of good and evil...again maybe im dramatising the whole thing but hey it makes for more interesting reading wouldnt u say....:D

Asim im not too sure myself about that statement but then we are taught that in Islam Allah is the most merciful and forgiving...but i would imagine people like Hitler etc would rot in hell for eternity...again i would have check on that...
And as for the 7 Heavens..i have heard of that as well but dont know much bout it myself...which is which etc...i thought they were all that same...:confused:


Like i have stated before im not an authority on Islam itself..im only remembering wot i have been taught and learnt myself....some of it i cant remember to be perfectly honest so may get my facts in a muddle...lol
 
i would like to take this opportunity to say that i have taken greta pleasure in reading this thread and trying my best to explain my religion Islam to the fellow OCuker's....and i do sincerely that this thread is kept in the GD archive as it would be a shame to let disappear into thin air...
I do hope that some of the things that me, Asim and BigwillyJohnson have cleared up certain points or aspects of our religion...

As you can see Islam is a way of life for us muslims...outsiders think its a restrictive religion....i used to think that myself when i was young but now i dont see in that way anymore...

The way Islam has been portrayed to the western world is all due to the media....they have literally twisted and distorted our religion into something it isnt....and people like Osama and Saddam have not helped matters either...using Islam as a weapon...it does make me sad to hear that people think of Islam as a religion for terrorism...we are a peaceful and very loving religion...we are taught to respect others and their beliefs etc...
It is one of the biggest sins in Islam to go out and commit murder or kill someone in the name of our religion...:( but yet Saddam and Osama think its right..well it isnt when thousands of innocent people are being killed in the name of Islam.....

:(
 
I believ the 7 heavens are different. I mean if one man does more good than the other than i guess he is rewarded more. I think you get more in the higher heavens if thats possible.

Not too sure it requires some research still i dont stray from the religion because it really does fascinate me.
 
i would like to take this opportunity to say that i have taken greta pleasure in reading this thread and trying my best to explain my religion Islam to the fellow OCuker's....and i do sincerely that this thread is kept in the GD archive as it would be a shame to let disappear into thin air...
I do hope that some of the things that me, Asim and BigwillyJohnson have cleared up certain points or aspects of our religion...

As you can see Islam is a way of life for us muslims...outsiders think its a restrictive religion....i used to think that myself when i was young but now i dont see in that way anymore...

The way Islam has been portrayed to the western world is all due to the media....they have literally twisted and distorted our religion into something it isnt....and people like Osama and Saddam have not helped matters either...using Islam as a weapon...it does make me sad to hear that people think of Islam as a religion for terrorism...we are a peaceful and very loving religion...we are taught to respect others and their beliefs etc...
It is one of the biggest sins in Islam to go out and commit murder or kill someone in the name of our religion... but yet Saddam and Osama think its right..well it isnt when thousands of innocent people are being killed in the name of Islam.....
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Well said s`ah, the despots within our religion dont help, but neither does the media, u never hear off hiltler and his ilk, being referred to christian terrorists/despots, the media is quick to portray the islamic world as backwater hole of some sort, where as in reality the irish troubles are not that different, and that is in the western (read democratic/free/enlightened) world
 
Originally posted by skyman
This is one reason why I don't understand how Islam could be the next step from the teaching of Jesus. Jesus came because the people of Isreal needed a drastic change. They had been living by the laws of Moses to get on God's good side. But this didn't work, they kept screwing up. So Jesus came with the message that you could never earn your way into heaven, nothing that you do that the world considers a good deed would come close to the goodness of God. He taught that his actions where so powerful that all you needed was faith. You don't need to have collected a certain ammount of brownie points to move up a level in God's eyes. So why would God then send another prophet teaching a message of strict law following and an earning of eternal life if it hadn't worked in the first place.

Quote from Jesus: "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through me"

In my opinion there is nothing that anyone can do to make God think: wow, what a really great person. Better let them into heaven.
Click to expand...

It's really quite simple to explain. Islam sees the previous religions as having been corrupted. Holy men of those faiths distorted certain aspects of the religions to benefit themselves. This mention of God not judging you by your actions but by your faith alone is one such distortion. The teachings of Isa (Jesus) (peace be upon him) had become lost.
So then Islam was revealed as the final religion, one that is protected from corruptability. The natural replacement for religions long lost.
 
Some very intersting points and questions raised. A good read so far!
Originally posted by asim

Jesus came as a prophet spreading the words of God. People then forgot and so prophet Mohammed came and did the same. Spread the words of God. Yet God had something a bit different to say this time.
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I have to agree with skyman and would like to clarify asim's statement from a Christian point of view (lest someone misunderstands something). Christians do not believe that Jesus was a prophet but God himself (basically, Jesus and God are one and the same). They also believe that he did not come to spread the word of God but to "teach" it, to show the people where they were going wrong. God became flesh in Jesus to show the people how much he loved them, to proclaim the Kingdom of Heaven. And many other things...

And something else -- Wooho mentioned earlier that life is not just a big test for Muslims and Jews, but also for Christians. While I can't speak for the Jews (would be interesting to hear a Jewish opinion though), I can speak from a Christian point of view. Of course we encounter situations in our lives where we are "put to the test", as it were. But I don't think Christians would agree on the statement that life is one big test. The God that I know is loving and forgiving, he's like a father not somebody I have to be afraid of and who keeps score of my mistakes or someone I have to be scared of. Neither can I -- to use skyman's words -- collect brownie points. God wants nothing more than for us to be happy!

But I'm not saying my beliefs are superior to yours. I just thought it might be interesting for some people to read about the Christian perspective on these two points in particular.
 
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Originally posted by BigWillyJohnson
It's really quite simple to explain. Islam sees the previous religions as having been corrupted. Holy men of those faiths distorted certain aspects of the religions to benefit themselves. This mention of God not judging you by your actions but by your faith alone is one such distortion. The teachings of Isa (Jesus) (peace be upon him) had become lost.
So then Islam was revealed as the final religion, one that is protected from corruptability. The natural replacement for religions long lost.
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Something that I only thought about ask now which was a bit stupid of me but what is included about Jesus in the Qur'an? Is it a brief mention or are there any accounts of what he did?
 
Originally posted by skyman
Something that I only thought about ask now which was a bit stupid of me but what is included about Jesus in the Qur'an? Is it a brief mention or are there any accounts of what he did?
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Yes, Isa (Jesus) (peace be upon him) is mentioned in the Holy Qu'raan. In Islam he is highly respected, infact a Muslim cannot claim to be a Muslim unless he believes in Isa (peace be upon him).
The Holy Qu'raan details his miraculous birth and the message that he spread. It also tells of how his message was distorted and gives an account of what happened at the 'crucifixtion'.
There is more mention of him but I can't remember what is mentioned exactly.
 
marin,

The way women are treated in these muslim countries has more to do with culture and traditions than religion.

For example in India, women are treated just as badly no matter whether they are Hindu, Muslim, Sikh or Christian.

With honour killings the men use religion to justify it because the punishment for adultery in Islam is death. But I don't think the punishment can just be carried out by an angry relative just shooting the woman. The case has to be taken to an Islamic court just like any other.

And it is only a small minority who treat their women badly in third world countries. It's not as widespread as the western media would have us believe.

I have personally seen some women treated worse here in the UK than in Pakistan.
 
I think Mujja explained that perfectly. The media plays with your mind making you think that all the population of the third world countries beat up woman and they blame it on Islam and all that.

We have clarified that Islam is about equal rights. Women are highly respected in Islam.

It is people who try to justify their actions by saying its part of some religious act. Men who beat women are cowards.
And they blame in on a religion. Its disgraceful.

If i ever saw a man like that i'd break his legs. No doubt.



I would like to hear the view points from other religions in here aswell as it has mostly been Islam at the moment.
 
forgot to mention, in Pakistan honour killings are illegal and people are arrested and sentanced. Although they usually get out in a couple of days if they can afford the bribe.
 
Originally posted by Deadly Ferret
So you've never munched a Polo or a Wham bar before?
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I used to until eat loads of stuff before i knew. Can't eat any of my fav sweets, biscuits or desserts. It's not fair :(

Shopping isn't easy, when buying stuff from a supermarket, if it's not a regular item then. I have to read the ingredients to make sure there is no animal fat or gelatine.

Muslims have benefited a lot from the vegetarians. More and more products now are displaying the vegetarian symbol.
 
I've been a vegetarian since birth but I just can't be bothered checking sweets as I have a sweet tooth, and if I did check 'em my conscience, for want of a better word, would compel me to abandon many of my favourite teeth-rotters. I prefer to be 99% efficient as a vegetarian and still be able to munch Wham bars. :D

Couldn't you adopt the same sort of ethic? :)
 
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