I can blame alignment on the bad traction but the front is perfect., can't see how the rear will affect how the steering responds. maybe my expectations are to much, last car was very stiffly sprung after all. Guess a comfort sacrifice is needed, shame a Datsun can be comfortable and still responsive.
My 3 series sucks, help.
- Thread starter Clarkey
- Start date
You don't need any comfort sacrifice to improve grip.
Your car sounds like it is poorly set up, using potentially the wrong parts.
Rear suspension makes a huge difference to the front end. Thats why adding a rear anti roll bar, or making changes to it, can hugely impact the front end "pointyness"
When I first had my s2000 aligned I was on stock suspension all round apart from the guy replacing the front castor bushes for Mugen items (stock ones split, can't buy separately) and the rear toe bushes (split again, same reason, but polyflex replacement to remove some of the compliance on the passive rear wheel steering). Just getting the wheels pointing in the right direction made HUGE differences to the cars grip.
Harder doesn't mean better or faster. Several of the guys on the S2Ki forums went for a bilstein suspension option (PSS9's) which were, when on full soft damper, softer than stock. They were still incredibly good handling cars.
The e36 steering can feel vague at times. Getting the alignment sorted solves a lot of this. More caster will give you some more weight.
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
To be honest Clarkey you could buy a Veyron and the 300ZX would be better.
To be fair, I think a fair chunk of people think chucking on some lowering springs magically makes a car handle better.
Hopefully Clarkey can see the posts in here, realise the E36 should handle well, and get his car sorted out.
True, I remember a friend chopping his springs on a mk1 Golf GTI and thought it handled better because it was such a hard ride afterwards.
Soldato
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- 14 Jul 2005
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- 17,616
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You'd hope so. Both of my previous ones were great for b-road blasts despite having fairly shonky suspension/GEO and they both put their power down very well. In fact the 328i put it's power down better than the 318iS did. Both had good tyres (Eagle F1s) but the 318iS would light up the rears and drift far more often than the 328i did, despite the 328i having RRed with 60+ more bhp and having worse suspension.
I reckon if you drove a well sorted e36 you would be very surprised. The rear springs / bushes and the rest will make a massive difference to the way the car rides, steers and grips no idea what makes you think otherwise? You may only be turning the front wheels but the whole car has to move, if it lumbers about you'll feel it in both the body and steering.
Think about driving with a rear tyre really deflated - you can feel it everywhere when driving the car, a rotten suspension setup will give similar effects. My 328 was not an out and out performance car but it was a very comfortable, tidy handling and reasonably powerful car. Was more than happy with it and that was coming from a turbo mk2 mr2 at the time, which in the dry grips, grips and grips.
Think about driving with a rear tyre really deflated - you can feel it everywhere when driving the car, a rotten suspension setup will give similar effects. My 328 was not an out and out performance car but it was a very comfortable, tidy handling and reasonably powerful car. Was more than happy with it and that was coming from a turbo mk2 mr2 at the time, which in the dry grips, grips and grips.
Soldato
- Joined
- 5 Jul 2007
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- 5,511
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- London
It sounds like you 3 series does indeed suck. But don't assume that's the case for all 3 series. What are you expecting if its got its rear wheels tucked under the arch? Sounds like its got a bunch of worn mismatch suspension teamed with some stupid size wheels with average tyres. Hardly going to be the drive of your life now is it. Sort the suspension out, get the geo done, and get some decent OEM wheels and tyres on it.
Those yellow springs and shocks are the OEM sports suspension fitted by BMW at the time so almost certainly due a change.
The suspension gap at the front compared to the rear is perfectly normal on a standard sport. If you look at the side profile of the car you will see that it sits level. If the front was dropped it would stick the arse in the air but drop the nose of the car down.
As for the whole power issue its a heavy car and you cant really tune it to good power without spending hideous amounts of money.
Your M50 manifold conversion and exhaust etc would only see around 30hp at best which although not insignificant will still not satisfy your hunger.
So in conclusion you need an M3.
The suspension gap at the front compared to the rear is perfectly normal on a standard sport. If you look at the side profile of the car you will see that it sits level. If the front was dropped it would stick the arse in the air but drop the nose of the car down.
As for the whole power issue its a heavy car and you cant really tune it to good power without spending hideous amounts of money.
Your M50 manifold conversion and exhaust etc would only see around 30hp at best which although not insignificant will still not satisfy your hunger.
So in conclusion you need an M3.
Clarkey,
Just realised I've chucked a load of info in and not given detail to prices.
Nick fitted some Apex RSX (I Think?) Coilovers that he bought 2nd hand (brand new, never fitted, still boxed) for £400. We did the work with minimal tools and could have done it all in a day if we had been more aware of what we were doing. The rears can be swapped in probably 45 minutes a side.
Decent alignment.... depends where you go, but Wheels In Motion in Chesham was £100, and you got 2 free adjustment sessions after (so go back saying you want more grip at the back etc...)
Just realised I've chucked a load of info in and not given detail to prices.
Nick fitted some Apex RSX (I Think?) Coilovers that he bought 2nd hand (brand new, never fitted, still boxed) for £400. We did the work with minimal tools and could have done it all in a day if we had been more aware of what we were doing. The rears can be swapped in probably 45 minutes a side.
Decent alignment.... depends where you go, but Wheels In Motion in Chesham was £100, and you got 2 free adjustment sessions after (so go back saying you want more grip at the back etc...)
I don't know if we are getting our wires crossed here, im aware standard evo top mounts offer more negative camber. However, when the scene boys lower the car they often use standard m3 top mounts and fit them on the incorrect side, so they fit the left side on the right, this gives more negative camber than evo mounts.
I think the word 'Lethargic' you mentioned in your first post is precisely how I'd describe driving an E36 as well. Compared to E30s that I am quite fond of E36s seem very dull and clinical in comparison. Some people do love them though, and I'm sure there must be a reason but they aren't for me for similar reasons you have mentioned. I'm still yet to try a M3 though! 
.
That being said I am surprised you are having problems putting down power though. Despite what the tyre snobs say I would expect nearly new Avons to easily cope with putting 190bhp onto the tarmac. What are the pressures like?
.That being said I am surprised you are having problems putting down power though. Despite what the tyre snobs say I would expect nearly new Avons to easily cope with putting 190bhp onto the tarmac. What are the pressures like?
I agree with this.
My e36 328i was far from ideal handling wise, cheap ditchfinders all round, autogearbox & worn SE spec suspension yet it handled beautifully.
Yes, it was lairy, but wonderfully controllable my previous e36 318i was much sharper, it had a lot less weight up front.
I'm wondering if Clarkey's example has had an accident in its past? - although I imagine they would have spotted anything obvious pointing toward this....
Something ain't right with it, thats for sure.
Thanks. I think a set of coilovers is going to be the way forward with this car realistically.
Let me get one thing straight though, there seems to be some level of confusion over this. Shoes on here has a 328 sport, it has -200kg weight reduction, bucket seats, smaller deep dished steering wheel, M50 manifold conversion, cat-back exhaust, and cheapy JOM coilovers with an A-line special geometry. I've driven this car extensively and it is AWESOME, the steering is light, very precise and fast responding. The engine is fantastic, it's much much faster than mine and not lazy in the slightest, and the traction is mind blowingly good. So, I'm not saying that the e36 in general is balls, it clearly isn't. Quite how much effect the weight reduction has on all this I couldn't tell you. He has an M50 manifold that we are going to fit on his daily (full weight) 328, so that will be a good judge of the benefit of that. I don't wish to run a gutted car on a daily basis, I've grown quite accustomed to the refinement of it.
Back to coilovers, I've got 3 options really.
JOMs off ebay, very cheap and pretty cheerful from what I can see.
SPAX RSX, next step up, possibly too firm for daily use?
HSD HR, the expensive option, but supposed to handle awesome and retain OE ride quality, heard nothing but glowing reviews.
Just have to decide whether I like the car enough to put some cash into it or not.
I took the car to A-line dudley for geo, fronts are bang on spec for toe (0"10' in iirc) with a touch too much camber (1"30') and more caster than spec too. Rear has far too much camber (3"00') and toe is out 0"17' and 0"21' respectively (it should be IN, but fwiw shoes red car has small toe-out on the rear). I want it set to -1"45' camber with 0"20' toe-in, but unfortunately with the 8Jet38 wheels, pulling the camber out will mean the tyre fouls the arch lip. I need to either change the wheels (hello Matt82
), or have the arches rolled.A-line are brilliant btw, very helpful and happy to work with you to develop a bespoke setup should you wish. Totally transformed shoes red one, went from almost undrivable to awesome, and for a very reasonable price. For the fanboys, yes they have a Hunter machine, obviously that is key
Normal M3 3.0 top mounts are offset rearward to achieve more caster, they do nothing for camber though. M3 evo ones are offset back even more for caster and also offset outward to reduce the camber. Why reduce, you might ask? Well, because they altered the hub knuckle to give more included angle, which allows for more neg camber range when using adjustable top mounts on race cars. Alternatively, you could just flip them around and that gives you a ton of neg camber. There's also an easy trick with e36 front struts to add camber if you want, just stick washers between the bottom holes and the knuckle. My car is for road use though, so such front camber isn't necessary or really wanted.
It's also a load of cods wallop and Fox should know better than to post something like that. When I was using the Colt I was never that taken with it, thought it was too heavy and didn't do corners. Yesterday I got out of it with a big grin on my face though.