NAS and surveillance advice

fobose

fobose

fobose

Soldato
Joined
6 Dec 2005
Posts
5,186
Location
Cambridge, UK.
Hello all,

I hope this is the right forum to post in, it looks like there are similar threads here.

I've got myself in to a bit of a pickle with my data storage over the years. All my main storage is in my main PC which is not ideal. I used to run 2x 1.5TB RAID 1 and 2x 2TB RAID 1 but I disbanded the arrays a few years ago as I ran out of space and now run all in JBOD. My drives are very old (2009) but going strong (WD green drives).

I've been thinking about getting a NAS for some time now but I am not sure what the best options would be. The simplest and maybe cheapest I think would be to buy a synology 220+ with 2x 10TB WD red drives and run them in RAID 1. I did think about running RAID 5 on the 420+ to gain some extra space but the cost of adding 2 more drives will be quite a lot.

In addition, I would like to install 2 security camera's at my house. 1 for the rear, 1 for the front. I will be running network cables to the 2x outside locations so I would like POE camera's. I currently have a netgear GS308P (55w) POE switch with only 1x nanoHD AP connected to it (no plans to install any more).

My questions:

Does a synology NAS sound like it will suit my needs? Should I look at creating a self build instead?

What camera's should I get?
 
I do have concerns re expansion in the future. If I get the synology 420+ then I could add two more drivers later but only in RAID 1 (unless I some how have a spare 10TB of HDD space to disband the array and create a new one). I could run 2x 10TB RAID 1 and 2x 2TB RAID 1 (reusing my two largest old drives) and just use the 2TB RAID 1 for surveillance, then replace them in the future when required.

Interesting about the WD scandal, I had not heard of it. To be honest I don't know that much about the different types of drives so thanks for that info re CMR.

I think I already know what I need to do, I just wanted other peoples opinions as what I think is normally not always the best way solution. I am keen to not under spend on a system though and regret it later on and need to replace it.
 
Synology is a very good option. All Synology units except the NVR-416 (comes with 4 licences) comes with two Synology Surveillance Station licences and that software is superb. Easily as good as anything from the Surveillance camera companies. Try to get one with two or more network interfaces. The Surveillance Station software can easily saturate a single 1Gbps connection if you’re running 2 streams from each camera and you’re running high resolution cameras. 2MP (1080P) cameras won’t be an issue but 4K (8MP) with a 720P backup stream will start to interfere with data transfer speed if you’re using it as a NAS as well. Realistically, you want a fairly powerful NAS if you’re running the cameras and NAS features.
 
fobose said:
I do have concerns re expansion in the future. If I get the synology 420+ then I could add two more drivers later but only in RAID 1
Click to expand...
Synology will allow you to create a 2 drive SHR array (RAID5 equivalent), and then expand to 3 or 4 drives later.

I've personally tried this with a DS1520+ that I recently bought - I only had a pair of 500gb drives around when it arrived, so I used those to set it up.
I then replaced both drives with larger drives when they arrived, and then expanded the array with a 3 drive.
 
You've not mentioned how you intend to backup your data? You mention setting your drives up to mirror, why not use one of those as a backup drive instead?

One thing I never understand when people design a solution, they jump straight into RAID but with no consideration of backup.
 
As for cameras I like the Dahua 5MP TiOC full colour night vision cameras. About £120+VAT from your friendly Dahua reseller.
 
Semple said:
You've not mentioned how you intend to backup your data? You mention setting your drives up to mirror, why not use one of those as a backup drive instead?

One thing I never understand when people design a solution, they jump straight into RAID but with no consideration of backup.
Click to expand...

The NAS is just for data storage, most of it is not important but if I can have some protection from drive failure that is generally all I need for that. I have a separate external hard drive I backup all important documents (pictures etc) and my brother has a flash drive in his house as an off site backup. Again, just pictures and a few documents.

Armageus said:
Synology will allow you to create a 2 drive SHR array (RAID5 equivalent), and then expand to 3 or 4 drives later.

I've personally tried this with a DS1520+ that I recently bought - I only had a pair of 500gb drives around when it arrived, so I used those to set it up.
I then replaced both drives with larger drives when they arrived, and then expanded the array with a 3 drive.
Click to expand...

Excellent! I did not know that was possible, thank you for that!

WJA96 said:
Try to get one with two or more network interfaces. The Surveillance Station software can easily saturate a single 1Gbps connection if you’re running 2 streams from each camera and you’re running high resolution cameras. 2MP (1080P) cameras won’t be an issue but 4K (8MP) with a 720P backup stream will start to interfere with data transfer speed if you’re using it as a NAS as well. Realistically, you want a fairly powerful NAS if you’re running the cameras and NAS features.
Click to expand...

I had not thought about that. It looks like the 220+ and 420+ do have two network interfaces, although, the location of where the NAS will be will probably only make one of them useful. This is my current layout and plan, I appreciate it's not ideal. I could put the NAS in to my office but I would rather it be somewhere I am not! I am not able to easily run more cables to the under stairs cupboard either as it is bang in the middle of my property.

Here is a pic of how my network is laid out. I have used cat6 cables and data points.
y0EpKFX.png


WJA96 said:
As for cameras I like the Dahua 5MP TiOC full colour night vision cameras. About £120+VAT from your friendly Dahua reseller.
Click to expand...

Cool, I will have a look in to those. I don't mind spending that sort of money for something decent.
 
Im using the 220+ with 2x12TB drives.

Using it for backup and have 2 Eufy WiFi cameras working with it.

Very slick setup.

I shucked my 12TB drives from Western Digital Xbox expansion drives - these contain 12TB Datacentre drives and are half the cost or less than buying them retail.
 
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Minstadave said:
Im using the 220+ with 2x12TB drives.

Using it for backup and have 2 Eufy WiFi cameras working with it.

Very slick setup.

I shucked my 12TB drives from Western Digital Xbox expansion drives - these contain 12TB Datacentre drives and are half the cost or less than buying them retail.
Click to expand...

I can't believe the price difference for them! Which drives did you get out of them?

*edit* sorry you said what drives were in them!
 
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I am not looking to purchase anything until Novemeber/December so I will keep an eye out to. That might save me a fortune, especially if I buy the 4 bay NAS.

WJA96 said:
The Surveillance Station software can easily saturate a single 1Gbps connection if you’re running 2 streams from each camera and you’re running high resolution cameras.
Click to expand...

Sorry to quote you again. What do you mean by 2 streams from each camera?
 
The main high quality stream is what actually gets recorded but most cameras also send a lower quality stream as well, and that's the one you look at in the live viewer or in the Synology app. So, the default for most Dahua cameras is the main stream is the maximum resolution of the camera at a good continuous bit rate (maybe 4096kbits/s) and the secondary stream is usually 720P at 512bits/second. It's fine for seeing an alert but you would use the main stream for viewing to actually look at the images later. If you streamed the main feed to your mobile you'd bring your 4G signal to a grinding halt.
 
@WJA96 Ah, that makes perfect sense, thank you for the explanation!

I think I will dig deep in to my pockets and go with the synology 420+ when I see some 10TB/12TB drives at a good price, as well as the camera's you have suggested. Quite a lot of cash to be spending in one go but totally my fault re the poor storage planning over the years.

Daft question maybe, if I just buy the NAS now without any storage drives, can I still access the feed to the camera's, they just wont be able to record any data?

I can't seem to find the camera prices online (is there an exact model you are referring to)? I can only imagine they only sell direct to installers perhaps? I think I read that in another thread somewhere. Were you the 'friendly' reseller you mentioned? ;)

Looking at the tech specs to one I've found, it uses POE af and 8.8w. My current POE (af) switch has 4 ports, 15.4w per port max so that should be fine on that front as I only have 1 wifi AP connected to it.
 
fobose said:
Daft question maybe, if I just buy the NAS now without any storage drives, can I still access the feed to the camera's, they just wont be able to record any data?
Click to expand...

You will need at least a single hard drive installed in order to be able to configure the Synology.

As I mentioned above, even if you just install a couple of small capacity drives (non-NAS even), you can then upgrade them later with no data loss (although make sure you pick SHR rather than RAID1, that way you will be able to expand later to 3 or 4 drives)
 
Armageus said:
You will need at least a single hard drive installed in order to be able to configure the Synology.

As I mentioned above, even if you just install a couple of small capacity drives (non-NAS even), you can then upgrade them later with no data loss (although make sure you pick SHR rather than RAID1, that way you will be able to expand later to 3 or 4 drives)
Click to expand...

Good to know, thanks! I could use my existing drives, but I don't have enough room to backup the data on to first :D I might just have to bite the bullet and buy at least 2 new drives and use SHR as you suggest.
 
fobose said:
@WJA96 Ah, that makes perfect sense, thank you for the explanation!

I think I will dig deep in to my pockets and go with the synology 420+ when I see some 10TB/12TB drives at a good price, as well as the camera's you have suggested. Quite a lot of cash to be spending in one go but totally my fault re the poor storage planning over the years.

Daft question maybe, if I just buy the NAS now without any storage drives, can I still access the feed to the camera's, they just wont be able to record any data?

I can't seem to find the camera prices online (is there an exact model you are referring to)? I can only imagine they only sell direct to installers perhaps? I think I read that in another thread somewhere. Were you the 'friendly' reseller you mentioned? ;)

Looking at the tech specs to one I've found, it uses POE af and 8.8w. My current POE (af) switch has 4 ports, 15.4w per port max so that should be fine on that front as I only have 1 wifi AP connected to it.
Click to expand...

*** Competitor link removed ***
 
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Maybe I am missing something. I've created an account but it still wont show me pricing. I click on 'sign in for pricing' and it says 'Hello Max'. When I search for the item using the quick find code, it still says sign in for pricing. Do I need to apply for a trade account?

Weird! signed out/in again and now it shows the pricing :)
 
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@WJA96 does the camera come with a junction box? I saw a video of the turret version that looked like it had a junction box in the box, but I can't see anything that shows/list the one you have suggested coming with one.

I am thinking about just buying one to have a play. I didn't realise you could connect directly to the camera using your browser once connected to your network etc. I am a complete newb when it comes to anything CCTV.
 
No, you don’t necessarily need a surface mount box, but one is available for about £15 if you need one. A pole mount is also available for about £15.
 
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