Nasty Gal ad banned over "underweight" model

Dis86 · 12 Oct 2018 at 12:51

Macaques. There's also the curious proboscis monkey!

Sasahara · 12 Oct 2018 at 13:07

Orionaut said:
I know about the Japanese Monkeys that like Hot baths. But any that can Actually swim underwater for minutes at a time??

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...ic-monkey-with-a-love-of-diving-and-swimming/

The proboscis monkey knows how to make a splash. This weird-nosed animal has quite an aquatic lifestyle for a primate: it can swim underwater for up to 20 metres and chooses to sleep by the river’s edge.

Diddums · 12 Oct 2018 at 13:24

Lol. From skinny bitches to underwater swimming monkeys. This is quality GD

Orionaut · 12 Oct 2018 at 13:29

aardvark said:
bit of a circular argument there - any animal capable of doing that is by definition semi-aquatic to some degree.

Being semi-aquatic is about behavior, its nothing to do with the argument by a stupid fat person.

I am not suggesting that the stupid fat person isn't talking cobblers.

I am merely questioning the assertion that

We're very obviously not aquatic animals.

There is a lot about not only our behavior, but our physiology too, that arguably puts Humans well into the low end of Aquatic mammals.

Orionaut · 12 Oct 2018 at 13:37

Sasahara said:
https://www.newscientist.com/articl...ic-monkey-with-a-love-of-diving-and-swimming/

How very interesting.

But, as i pointed out in my earlier post.

The Human record for underwater swimming is nearly 250M (And over 20 minutes static breath holding under water! :eek:

) Which puts Humans far further along the Aquatic spectrum. and puts us much closer to the capabilities of animals like Otters.

aardvark · 12 Oct 2018 at 14:21

Orionaut said:
There is a lot about not only our behavior, but our physiology too, that arguably puts Humans well into the low end of Aquatic mammals.

I see what you are saying but i would say that humans are good in water not because we have evolved specifically for that reason, but that its a side benefit of our abilities that evolved for completely different reasons - therefore we are semiaquatic simply because we choose to be, not because we evolved specifically to do those tasks.

Scrutinize · 12 Oct 2018 at 14:24

Orionaut said:
How very interesting.

But, as i pointed out in my earlier post.

The Human record for underwater swimming is nearly 250M (And over 20 minutes static breath holding under water! ) Which puts Humans far further along the Aquatic spectrum. and puts us much closer to the capabilities of animals like Otters.

Not really. Every otter can do that but only a handful of people or one specifically with the WR out of c7bn.

c21% of the UK population have a disability and depending on where you take your figures for the UK 1%-3% suffer a disability that would prevent independent swimming with <1% having severe or significant disabilities, i.e. many times times more people than the total UK otter population.

As for the obese Vs overweight Vs healthiness Vs Plus Size; it's the same pattern as the smoking debate where medical advice was ignored, objected to and shunned by smokers for years. Eventually, enough died off or suffered serious enough illnesses for people to take notice.

cheesyboy · 12 Oct 2018 at 14:25

aardvark said:
I see what you are saying but i would say that humans are good in water not because we have evolved specifically for that reason, but that its a side benefit of our abilities that evolved for completely different reasons - therefore we are semiaquatic simply because we choose to be, not because we evolved specifically to do those tasks.

Seem to remember someone telling me that the hymen was a relic of our aquatic ape ancestry. I've never bothered to fact check it though.

Sasahara · 12 Oct 2018 at 14:48

Scrutinize said:
c21% of the UK population are disabled and depending on where you take your figures for the UK 1%-3% suffer a disability that would prevent independent swimming with <1% having severe or significant disabilities, i.e. many times times more people than the total UK otter population.

10,000 years ago the proportion of humans with disabilites would have been on a similar level to otters. As just like otters, any human not up to a decent level of ability would not survive. Most disabled people in the UK are over 60. 10,000 years ago most people wouldn't live past 30 years old.

In the 1700's a cumulative total of 36% of children died before the age of six, and another 24% between the ages of seven and sixteen. In all, of 100 live births, 60 would die before the age of 16.

dowie · 12 Oct 2018 at 14:58

Orionaut said:
Sea birds are semi-aquatic

What, you mean Sea-snakes?? (See above)

Worth pointing out that humans don't (generally) swim underwater for minutes at a time, only a tiny number who have specially trained themselves to do so.

But anyway

Sea dog:

Sea pigs:

Angilion · 12 Oct 2018 at 15:14

Orionaut said:
Well,

As long as you discount all the various features that suggest that we might be.

Consider https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freediving.

Now certainly, the achievements of free-divers are both at the extreme and sometimes even a little contrived (EG pre-loading on pure O2)

But nevertheless, This level of aquatic performance puts Humans well into aquatic mammal territory (Albeit at the lower end of the spectrum)

And, like with long distance running (Remember the thread on human endurance running/hunting) with practice, most people could greatly enhance their aquatic performance because the basic abilities are something that we appear to have inherited through evolution.

And like with pearl diving ( See https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a20790390/the-amazing-physiology-of-pearl-divers/) underwater spear fishing has been practiced for millennia with people routinely holding their breath and swiming undewater for up to two minutes at a time.

How can one possibly argue that an animal with the ability to perform underwater in this manner has not evolved semi-aquatic capabilities??

Give me one example of any recognised non-aquatic animal that is capable of swimming underwater for many minutes at a time?

I don't think that being able to swim underwater for up to two minutes at a time makes an animal aquatic. Humans are mostly generalists and I think that "aquatic" applies to animals that are more specialised (and thus much more capable) in water.

Orionaut · 12 Oct 2018 at 15:18

dowie said:
Worth pointing out that humans don't (generally) swim underwater for minutes at a time, only a tiny number who have specially trained themselves to do so.

But anyway

Sea dog:

Sea pigs:

Most humans cant run 20-30 miles in one go either. (Or draw a Longbow, etc) However most could train themselves to do so, especially had they been expected to do so since they were able to walk.

There is a lot about us that points towards an evolutionary trend towards endurance hunting (One of the more interesting being the two large tendons down the backs of our necks. AIUI other primates do not have these)

This brings us on to Sea Dogs.

Again, AIUI, Wolves hate water, to such an extent that one can escape wolves by swimming for it, Dogs however do have a shared symbiotic relationship with Humans that has existed for a very long time. We have affected their evolution (and it is quite likley that they have affected ours).

Newfoundlands are certainly very comfortable indeed in swimming. But swimming underwater for extend periods. Even if they can do it briefly. I doubt if they could do it for anywhere near as long as Humans can.

Again. I admit that the freediving records are exceptional. (And sometimes unrealistically contrived) However Most people could achieve the 2 minute threshold with a little practice.

And in any case. Humans clearly love swimming and for "Land Animals" are surprisingly graceful underwater.

Orionaut · 12 Oct 2018 at 15:25

Oh, and PS

Angilion said:
I don't think that being able to swim underwater for up to two minutes at a time makes an animal aquatic. Humans are mostly generalists and I think that "aquatic" applies to animals that are more specialised (and thus much more capable) in water.

It doesn't make us "Aquatic", but it certainly makes us very comfortable in water. and rather more semi aquatic than not aquatic at all. And since it is likley that this has been the case for a very long time, it would be strange if evolutionary adaptions did not play a part in this.

In particular the "Diving response" (Ones metabolism drops if you stick your head underwater so you can remain submerged for longer. Simply holding your breath does not have the same effect. It is the presence of the water that triggers it)

Do ALL mammals have this reflex? Or just some?

dowie · 12 Oct 2018 at 15:27

Sea cow:

Orionaut · 12 Oct 2018 at 15:41

dowie said:
Sea cow:

Funnily enough I believe that Cows and Dolphins did have a common ancestor.

(By that, I mean a "Relatively" recent one. Not the fact that we all had a common ancestor if we go back far enough

( LOCA comes to mind, but I cant find any links))

jacksgotbones · 12 Oct 2018 at 16:14

As a girl.. I hate the term plus size as it's just people trying to cover the fact that these women are obese! All this love your body campaign stuff. Sure, but promoting to people that being obese is OK? When infact it isn't and you're just at a greater risk of heart failure, diabetes etc.

Eurofighter · 12 Oct 2018 at 16:20

She looks pretty hot to me, would rather do her than some of these plus sized models.

TBH though I think all types of people should be used as models. Including "normal" people. Everyone needs clothes after all.
So fat, thin, ugly and fat etc.

Angilion · 12 Oct 2018 at 16:27

Orionaut said:
Oh, and PS

It doesn't make us "Aquatic", but it certainly makes us very comfortable in water. and rather more semi aquatic than not aquatic at all. And since it is likley that this has been the case for a very long time, it would be strange if evolutionary adaptions did not play a part in this.

In particular the "Diving response" (Ones metabolism drops if you stick your head underwater so you can remain submerged for longer. Simply holding your breath does not have the same effect. It is the presence of the water that triggers it)

Do ALL mammals have this reflex? Or just some?

Interesting, but a quick look implies that (a) it's extremely common in animals that don't live in water, including all mammals and many other animals too and (b) it exists to very different extents and humans have it relatively weakly.

For example:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3768097/

The mammalian diving response is a remarkable behavior that overrides basic homeostatic reflexes. It is most studied in large aquatic mammals but is seen in all vertebrates. [..] For example the common laboratory rat maintains a brisk DR to underwater submersion (67, 159, 185); in our hands, the response is seen in 100% of rats, 100% of the time. The hypothesis that the purpose of the DR is to conserve intrinsic oxygen stores, no matter what the species, appears evident to us.

Amp34 · 12 Oct 2018 at 16:46

Apparently there is actually a term for it:

Semi Aquatic Tetrapods.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiaquatic_tetrapods

We are one, but there are also a surprising number of others you wouldn't think were, including some wolf and foxes.

That said it seems to be a pretty broad term, encompassing things as broad as Seals, Capybara and Moose to some Weasels, Bears and Raccoons.

V F · 12 Oct 2018 at 17:17

AHarvey said:
Until I was 16 I was a healthy athletic lad, rugby, badminton, squash, cycling, swimming, loved it.

I then developed a stomach acid problem and my weight shot up from 9 stone to 16 stone. By the time this was sorted I was crying myself to sleep because of an undiagnosed hereditary autoimmune disease that means I basically live in pain all the time. At best, it feels like a fractured bone, at worst, my entire body feels like every bone has been dislocated and someone is sticking hot or cold burning sticks into the joints.

I also have borderline personality disorder, eating is a form of self harm I fight every single day. My eating isn't too bad, but I struggle to exercise due to the pain but I try.

I am overweight, 21.5 stone and 5'10"

Anyone that says being overweight/fat is full of ****

Buying clothes, playing with your kids, DIY, washing cars, any strenuous activity completely takes it out of you. Granted, some of mine can be down to the autoimmune disease and fatigue but it's ****.

What I want to look like isn't diagnosed by adverts or magazines, I want to be healthy, fit and active. Being fat stops that.

Simply Be adverts, annoy the hell out of me, especially when adverts like this get banned because of some ribs. the only way the simply be girls like ribs is covered in bbq sauce. I try not to fat shame, being fat myself, but if it's ok to pick at healthy and skinny people that fatties are fair game to me.

Both of my kids leave a healthy life, we encourage it and we're trying to build habits for them now that they can take forwards with them .

It's definitely not a nice place to be. I know how it felt when I used to be 16.8st in 2015. Always pulling my clothes, out of breath, bad lower back pain, snoring and feeling my sides on chairs. It was awful. It can creep up so fast. I know you've developed a condition which must be infuriating.

Also, do you know how hard it is to actually find 30" - 32" belts that actually are those sizes these days? It's hard. It took a while to find them. Just about every belt about is 4 - 6 inches bigger than what they're supposed to be.