National insurance cut

Feek said:
I appreciate any more money in my pay packet (actually, I'll just add this to my pension like before) but it won't persuade me to vote for them.
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No, imo it's much more insidious play.

I personally think it's been done in pure selfishness to screw Labour and public services. A double win for the right.

They know this won't win them votes. But it will hurt labour

1) less money to do anything with when they come to power
2) giving money is one thing. Taking it away is quite another.. If labour do need to reverse it this will not be popular.
Imagine, you get used to 3k a year in your household due to the 2 * 2pc cuts.
Labour then go.. We need that back.

How is that navigable? It isn't.


It's equally genius as it is disgusting by the tories.

That's my view on it.
 
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srekal34 said:
Of course not(and majority of immigrants arent either), but we have to start cuttings costs somewhere.
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Agreed.

So lets look at the millions which is wasted on putting legitimate benefits recipients into expensive hotels and private rentals because the vast majority of state owned housing has been sold off and they refuse to implement any kind of house building plan as it would reduce the value of them and their mates property portfolios too much.

Or maybe the millions wasted on IT projects which never come to fruition because the tender process is broken and ends up giving the contract to the company which bids the lowest even if that bid is only low because it's unrealistic (or because of backhanders to certain decision makers). In fact this isn't even limited to IT projects - just most government projects in general.

Maybe we should consider the cuts made to youth and mental health services which result in increased crime (and so pressure on the police) due to youth boredom & people with mental illness not getting the support they need, or the cuts to frontline NHS services, meaning more pressure on A&E and ambulance.

There are plenty of issues much closer to home which dwarf any problems caused by "but the immigrants!!!111oneone", but surprise, surprise, nobody in govt. is bringing those up...
 
This, 1,000,000x this!

Make tax simpler, put a flat rate in that benefits everyone earning under <£50K. The efficiency gains would outweigh the costs and overnight fix all of HMRC's backlogs and issues.

e.g. nothing on the first £20,000 then 35% over that.

Remove all tax dodges and don't bother means testing any child-related benefits just balance it with earning far more tax.

It's not this simple and it would need complex maths to make it work, but the principal is there! I don't understand who benefits from our complex tax system other than accountants and HMRC.
 
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Personal tax and is very easy to overhaul in PAYE.

Self employed is a little trickier as no one ever makes a profit....

Pensions and savings are a little more complicated as to how they have been setup.
 
Until they sort out tax on investments nothing will change. For us regular joes we get taxed silly amounts on our income plus all the stealth taxes with vat on so many products and services now, which unless you fully look into you never really pay interest or know it's happening.

If you have loads of spare money you'll most likely invest it in stocks and shares etc and won't pay hardly anything on it. Tories have designed a system basically just to make the rich richer.

Another question, why do we allow off shore accounts? Cameron bull**** saying he would get rid of them until he found out Mummy and Daddies money was tied up in various ones.

Take little things like we always seem to have water shortages, why not build some reservoirs or storages... We haven't built a reservoir for about 30 odd years as once again the money just goes to the pockets of shareholders.

I'm not saying labour will do things better but they'll be picking up years or debt and mess that it will be very difficult to sort things out.
 
413x said:
No, imo it's much more insidious play.

I personally think it's been done in pure selfishness to screw Labour and public services. A double win for the right.

They know this won't win them votes. But it will hurt labour

1) less money to do anything with when they come to power
2) giving money is one thing. Taking it away is quite another.. If labour do need to reverse it this will not be popular.
Imagine, you get used to 3k a year in your household due to the 2 * 2pc cuts.
Labour then go.. We need that back.

How is that navigable? It isn't.


It's equally genius as it is disgusting by the tories.

That's my view on it.
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Makes Starmer's 'highest tax burden in decades' whinging look at bit of an own goal now lol...

Labour will either have to support the cuts or have it as a manifesto pledge to reverse them.. either way lol on them...
 
kissenger said:
If taxes are at record highs and public services are crap, where’s the money going?
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We’re paying off the debts (financial and social) caused by austerity, Brexit and the pandemic.

Spending on items such as emergency housing and care have skyrocketed thanks to austerity measures. Huge backlogs at the home office and in the courts are also due to austerity measures.

Ignoring any financial cost of Brexit, the political chaos has destroyed all long-term planning.
 
n111ck said:
Makes Starmer's 'highest tax burden in decades' whinging look at bit of an own goal now lol...

Labour will either have to support the cuts or have it as a manifesto pledge to reverse them.. either way lol on them...
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Surprisingly this was explained how politic worked to me 50yrs ago but I know nothing
 
Murf said:
Good God. The NHS (the concept) is one of the absolute best things about this country. The commitment to treat anyone in need irrespective of their ability to pay is commendable. How it's ran, and how it's funded can be improved, certainly. But the principle is fantastic.

Keep your little Englander racism off the NHS please.
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The NHS is crap, as anyone who’s used it lately knows. One day it might click for you that the reason why it’s crap is because the concept is flawed. Especially if immigrants can also use the service freely from day one.

But no, it’s easier to just say “hur dur, that’s racist!”
 
n111ck said:
Makes Starmer's 'highest tax burden in decades' whinging look at bit of an own goal now lol...

Labour will either have to support the cuts or have it as a manifesto pledge to reverse them.. either way lol on them...
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They are screwed either way. That's why the tories are pretty clever with this. They know no chance this term.

But there's a good chance in 5 years.


Labour have to either "agree" with the tories and keep it. Validating the Tory method, screwing the poor and focusing on the middle. Have less money for anything. So during their term public services will crumble further. more councils will go bankrupt. Etc etc

Or reverse it. Reversing it is (imo) better. IF the cash was used well. But if the next GE isn't for a few months, how on earth can Labour go "once it's our pledges is to take up to 3k from households".
It would be self destruction.


I can't see how they can pull this off. I can't see any improvements in 4 years at all. Especially if the tories have taken any chance labour had of reducing taxes.


Anyone got any ideas how labour can make this work? I have nothing.
 
jeffk said:
We’re paying off the debts (financial and social) caused by austerity, Brexit and the pandemic.

Spending on items such as emergency housing and care have skyrocketed thanks to austerity measures. Huge backlogs at the home office and in the courts are also due to austerity measures.

Ignoring any financial cost of Brexit, the political chaos has destroyed all long-term planning.
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One out of three. That's poor. Brexit has barely had any effect one way or the other, and austerity was the solution to a debt problem (caused by the previous Labour government and the financial crisis), not a cause. The UK was already in debt, and had a big deficit, pre-financial crisis anyway, and demographic problems have only worsened since then. Although you're right that the pandemic led to a massive spike. Emergency housing costs a tiny fraction of what's spent on welfare benefits and pensions. And of course debt interest.
 
squerble said:
Brexit has hit GDP by over 4%, costing the tax payers over £32,000,000,000 per year. The fact you're suggesting Brexit has had no effect makes the rest of your post void.
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Now you're talking about GDP. We're talking about tax revenues. The UK was a net contributor to the EU budget, so we've saved that money by leaving the EU. If the UK being in the EU was a massive benefit for the UK economy then you could potentially recoup the costs via the added revenue from more growth, but that's highly debatable. The major EU economies are all struggling, and so is the EU as a whole. Germany is a basket case at the moment. The UK's economy has major problems, but none of them are solved by reversing Brexit—we know this because the same problems existed back when we were in the EU!
 
413x said:
They are screwed either way. That's why the tories are pretty clever with this. They know no chance this term.

But there's a good chance in 5 years.


Labour have to either "agree" with the tories and keep it. Validating the Tory method, screwing the poor and focusing on the middle. Have less money for anything. So during their term public services will crumble further. more councils will go bankrupt. Etc etc

Or reverse it. Reversing it is (imo) better. IF the cash was used well. But if the next GE isn't for a few months, how on earth can Labour go "once it's our pledges is to take up to 3k from households".
It would be self destruction.


I can't see how they can pull this off. I can't see any improvements in 4 years at all. Especially if the tories have taken any chance labour had of reducing taxes.


Anyone got any ideas how labour can make this work? I have nothing.
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Politics 101 in action
 
Murf said:
Good God. The NHS (the concept) is one of the absolute best things about this country. The commitment to treat anyone in need irrespective of their ability to pay is commendable. How it's ran, and how it's funded can be improved, certainly. But the principle is fantastic.

Keep your little Englander racism off the NHS please.
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And here in lies the problem- you and your ideas of how and what I have said is a racist comment .

My comment was based solely on economics, immigrants with zero to contribute but are happy to take take take and not only take in the short term but don't want to assimilate with the indigenous population and contribute to the country that welcomed them with open arms , but hold on accoring to you that makes me a racist ?

Like I said he can keep his 2% NI cut. I've got Bupa care anyhow .

srekal34 said:
Yeah I was seeing this positive contribution each day in east London, when my wife was afraid to leave flat alone after dark, with phones getting snatched in my area on a daily basis.
And as dave above said illegal migrant =/= legal
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Yep seen this first hand , was a Hackney boy and moved out to Essex as teenager
 
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