Natural/in built motivation?

Precisely.

Which is why any advice in this thread is mostly worthless

We have no idea what would motivate he OP really.

Some people live a happy life on minimum wage and watching birds or trains, or whatever. Whilst someone else will be one of the most successful music artists or actors of their era and find life so unbearable that they will kill themselves.

We are all ******* in the wind.

:p

Mental health and all the complexities that come with it make sweeping statements on why successful people top themselves a mine field.

From just a servere case of depression where nothing matters. Not money, not your family not career.

To wanting endlessly more and when you get there, there's nothing left to achieve and fall into that mental health trap.


Mostly being extreme in anything is bad. Fortunately most people sit in the middle. They are motivated for more. But do not want everything.

Both people who want it all and those who are completely apathetic have a high risk of living a miserable life.

Edit.
And yeah. Finding what motivates an individual can be a life long task. Especially when we are kind of conditioned that
-Kids
-Career
-Money
Are tradional drivers.
Luckily I do think we are moving away culturally from expecting this of people. Child free is much more Common. And jobs are seemingly more accepting when someone doesn't want to be a manager.
 
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Mental health and all the complexities that come with it make sweeping statements on why successful people top themselves a mine field.

From just a servere case of depression where nothing matters. Not money, not your family not career.

To wanting endlessly more and when you get there, there's nothing left to achieve and fall into that mental health trap.


Mostly being extreme in anything is bad. Fortunately most people sit in the middle. They are motivated for more. But do not want everything.

Both people who want it all and those who are completely apathetic have a high risk of living a miserable life.

“the answer is blowing in the wind”
 
I think if you can come to terms with that fact, and understand that the "you can be whoever you want to be and do whatever you want to do if you work hard enough" mantra is objectively a complete and utter lie, then mentally, you will likely be OK. However, the logical knowledge of the above can be very hard to overcome.
I know you disagree with me, but it isn't a lie.

Part of the reason it isn't a lie, is because people like you and Telecaster exist - greatly increasing opportunities for people like me, and randomshenans, so I suppose I shouldn't really try and change your mind.
 
I know you disagree with me, but it isn't a lie.

Part of the reason it isn't a lie, is because people like you and Telecaster exist - greatly increasing opportunities for people like me, and randomshenans, so I suppose I shouldn't really try and change your mind.

I use the example of being in shape (bar some health issues) it's something anyone can achieve with a bit of motivation and hard work, yet when you walk down the street it's pretty clear hardly anyone does. Same applies to the workplace and life in general
 
I know you disagree with me, but it isn't a lie.

Part of the reason it isn't a lie, is because people like you and Telecaster exist - greatly increasing opportunities for people like me, and randomshenans, so I suppose I shouldn't really try and change your mind.

Lol, you don't know me or my motivation/happiness. How on earth do you know that what would make me happy, would make you happy?

and it is a lie. Objectively so.

You are kind of proving my point with this rather juvenile competitive-esque talk. Yes, we are all in competition and their arent enough prizes to go around, regardless of whether everyone works hard.
 
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I use the example of being in shape (bar some health issues) it's something anyone can achieve with a bit of motivation and hard work, yet when you walk down the street it's pretty clear hardly anyone does. Same applies to the workplace and life in general

Yes, being in shape is absolutely one thing you can control, i agree. I have little sympathy for anyone who complains about being fat/health issues caused by an unhealthy lifestyle.

The same absolutely doesn't apply to work/anything that involves other humans.
 
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Lol, you don't know me or my motivation/happiness. How on earth do you know that what would make me happy, would make you happy?

and it is a lie. Objectively so.

You are kind of proving my point with this rather juvenile competitive-esque talk. Yes, we are all in competition and their arent enough prizes to go around, regardless of whether everyone works hard.

What there is to "go around" is only dependent on work, wealth is infinite. What you say is the root cause of communist ideology and it is wrong.


I know you disagree with me, but it isn't a lie.

Part of the reason it isn't a lie, is because people like you and Telecaster exist - greatly increasing opportunities for people like me, and randomshenans, so I suppose I shouldn't really try and change your mind.

This is wrong, in fact the abundance of those people reduces opportunities for you, its not a zero sum game.
 
So overweight people can't be happy and you need to fit to be happy.

Again a lie.

Happiness and motivation are a mental state. Yes a healthy body is a healthy mind but that's not happiness.
 
Lol, you don't know me or my motivation/happiness. How on earth do you know that what would make me happy, would make you happy?

and it is a lie. Objectively so.

You are kind of proving my point with this rather juvenile competitive-esque talk. Yes, we are all in competition and their arent enough prizes to go around, regardless of whether everyone works hard.
I didn't claim to know what motivates you or make you happy.

All I really know is that you don't think there is any point trying to achieve {!$things}, because there are not enough {!$things} to go around, making it statistically impossible for everyone to achieve what they are looking to achieve (I'm paraphrasing, but that's the gist of your position, right?)
 
For me, having dyslexia makes motivation difficult some days and easily distracted by random things. I can’t do sorting out stuff like paperwork etc if I’m not in the right mood. Unless my parents help
 
Someone wrote something this week and it reminded me of this thread.. Honestly I think it's one of the reasons I left T'internet in 2018.. (Still wondering why I came back TBH)

I am honestly so bored of cynicism on the internet. I might just start a Toxic Positivity trend to try and offset it.
I'm sick of seeing comment sections just filled with self-defeating, world-hating nihilists who are adamant that the world is against them and it's people who have goals that are the issue.
Cynicism is a guarded response. You're setting yourself up against disappointment. Its role within the system is to protect you against experiencing anything bad.
It is a pre-emptive strike against a perceived threat. If I tell myself that 'all women are bad', then I'm less likely to seek a relationship with women and, as a consequence, I'm never going to feel the pain of rejection.
If I tell myself that 'everything is ****' or that 'things will never get better', then I am excused of ever having to try at anything. It's more comfortable to get fatalistic and call it pragmatism.
The cope is framing hope as pathetic and embarrassing and optimism as delusion.
It’s “sour grapes" at an existential level.
If everything sucks, and everyone is horrible, and reality is disappointing and you know that for a fact, it's the people acting like things can be better that are dumb, delusional and the problem.

The upside of never trying is never having to feel the pain of failure.
 
Someone wrote something this week and it reminded me of this thread.. Honestly I think it's one of the reasons I left T'internet in 2018.. (Still wondering why I came back TBH)

I am honestly so bored of cynicism on the internet. I might just start a Toxic Positivity trend to try and offset it.
I'm sick of seeing comment sections just filled with self-defeating, world-hating nihilists who are adamant that the world is against them and it's people who have goals that are the issue.
Cynicism is a guarded response. You're setting yourself up against disappointment. Its role within the system is to protect you against experiencing anything bad.
It is a pre-emptive strike against a perceived threat. If I tell myself that 'all women are bad', then I'm less likely to seek a relationship with women and, as a consequence, I'm never going to feel the pain of rejection.
If I tell myself that 'everything is ****' or that 'things will never get better', then I am excused of ever having to try at anything. It's more comfortable to get fatalistic and call it pragmatism.
The cope is framing hope as pathetic and embarrassing and optimism as delusion.
It’s “sour grapes" at an existential level.
If everything sucks, and everyone is horrible, and reality is disappointing and you know that for a fact, it's the people acting like things can be better that are dumb, delusional and the problem.

The upside of never trying is never having to feel the pain of failure.
Yes, that's a decent summary.

I've been thinking a lot about this topic recently, as over the years I've worked with people who sit all over that motivational spectrum.

I think that overall, self-motivation is something that goes beyond purely external rewards (money, status, achievements and so on)
That self-motivation is powered by being able to visualise what is important in life to you personally - that could be a desire to learn, the satisfaction of completing a task, the state of being fully immersed in a topic of interest - you get the idea.

There have been psychological studies on students of similar intellectual levels - those with a positive, motivated mentality set higher goals, demonstrated a higher degree of flexibility when overcoming obstacles to achieve those goals, and were more effective at breaking down tasks into smaller and more manageable steps.

It's a bit like the saying "How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time" - if you see a task as too large, or in some other way unmanageable (odds stacked against me, system is rigged, no chance of "winning", odds of failure too great, I'm no good at XYZ, I cannot do ABC etc) then the tendancy is to either bug out or just not bother at all, in the manner Fuzz describes in his quote above.

Having a negative mindset limits your thinking ability - a large amount of your mental resource is consumed by focusing on the limiting factors described above, stopping you from processing information, thinking of potential solutions/opportunities and so on.
You find yourself in a state where failures are caused by those unmanageable or irremediable factors I mentioned above, and that mental state affects your ability to think clearly.

Having a positive or optimistic mindset allows you to self motivate. You're able to rationalise that failures or setbacks are almost always caused by factors which you can edit/modify/influence/improve in a subsequent attempt, which will give you a greater chance of success next time you try something. You believe that you can control the course of your life by taking actions (repeatedly) that influence that course.

I honestly think it's well worth investing time in understanding what motivates you. A mate of mine struggles in this area, and whilst the idea might sound laughable to some, he's had a few sessions with a life coach/therapist and it's had a noticeable impact on the way he thinks about his life.

I guess the exec summary for me is:

People do not inherently lack self motivation or drive.
Thoughts control feelings, and those feelings influence the actions people take and the decisions they make.
Those thought processes are what lead people to make poor assessments of situations, which subsequently manifests (in this case) as a lack of motivation.

You can control your thought processes if you are sufficiently aware of them, and if you are not already particularly self aware, you can learn that to. In fact, self awareness and EQ are a great place to start in this topic as a whole.
 
Someone wrote something this week and it reminded me of this thread.. Honestly I think it's one of the reasons I left T'internet in 2018.. (Still wondering why I came back TBH)

I am honestly so bored of cynicism on the internet. I might just start a Toxic Positivity trend to try and offset it.
I'm sick of seeing comment sections just filled with self-defeating, world-hating nihilists who are adamant that the world is against them and it's people who have goals that are the issue.
Cynicism is a guarded response. You're setting yourself up against disappointment. Its role within the system is to protect you against experiencing anything bad.
It is a pre-emptive strike against a perceived threat. If I tell myself that 'all women are bad', then I'm less likely to seek a relationship with women and, as a consequence, I'm never going to feel the pain of rejection.
If I tell myself that 'everything is ****' or that 'things will never get better', then I am excused of ever having to try at anything. It's more comfortable to get fatalistic and call it pragmatism.
The cope is framing hope as pathetic and embarrassing and optimism as delusion.

It’s “sour grapes" at an existential level.
If everything sucks, and everyone is horrible, and reality is disappointing and you know that for a fact, it's the people acting like things can be better that are dumb, delusional and the problem.

The upside of never trying is never having to feel the pain of failure.

Disagree.

Pull it back more and start wondering WHY the above happens, and why it is on the increase.

Also, the quoted poster seems to be adamant that these people are saying that people with goals are a "problem". Not sure where that comes from.

I would also say that the quoted poster is rather presumptive and insensitive. How does he know most of these people haven't tried their best and been repeatedly hit by failure and hardship their entire lives?

The fact remains, is that we live in a world where there categorically and factually are not enough opportunities for everyone to be happy/live comfortably and do what makes them happy. The entire economy and our society is built that way, and to deny that IS delusional (or ignorant).

Rather paradoxically, the overall sentiment here appears to be that most people are just lazy and not prepared to do anything....which is equally complaining how everyone is rubbish!
 
People do not inherently lack self motivation or drive.
Thoughts control feelings, and those feelings influence the actions people take and the decisions they make.
Those thought processes are what lead people to make poor assessments of situations, which subsequently manifests (in this case) as a lack of motivation.

You can control your thought processes if you are sufficiently aware of them, and if you are not already particularly self aware, you can learn that to. In fact, self awareness and EQ are a great place to start in this topic as a whole.

Do you have in-depth brain/medical research to prove this is true?

This sounds like something you have written to make yourself feel better about yourself.
 
I would also say that the quoted poster is rather presumptive and insensitive. How does he know most of these people haven't tried their best and been repeatedly hit by failure and hardship their entire lives?
Focussing on this point about people trying their best.

A person's best, is limited by their knowledge of a subject/task, it can also be limited by self delusion (there are other things that limit a persons best effort, but these are the two that came to mind). This limitation leads to them making mistakes/not making optimal choices that hinders their effort and can lead to failure. A lack of knowledge means they do not understand why they failed.

The show secret eaters is all about people who tried their "best" to loose weight but kept failing. Yet the investigators finds them eating a lot of unhealthy foods (Self delusion), or slathering their healthy foods with calorie dense sauces (lack of knowledge) or just eating too much food (another example of where they lack knowledge or they are just deluded). To them they gave it their best effort and that is what they go around telling people.
Hell's kitchen had some guy who thought he was an expert at cooking meat. He sucked (Self delusion). This guy was chewing on some meat like it was a piece of gum and was convinced it was tender, you could see the jaw muscles bulging as he was chewing. He believes that he is giving it his best effort. When/if, his restaurant fails, what do you think he tells people? That his cooking sucked that's why customers didn't come back or does he say he gave it his best effort and it just didn't work out.


Most importantly a persons best effort is not consistent, it changes as a person gains knowledge on that topic. Here's an example, I was recently looking at an old 3D model of mine and the textures were crap (putting it kindly). I gave it my best effort (at the time) but my best effort at the time produced a rubbish result. I now know more about texturing and my best effort now is better than my best effort in the past. I still have more to learn and practise. As long as I put the time in (wisely) my best effort in 3 years time will be better than my best effort today.

In general, I'm certain there are plenty of people in various fields who have improved their best effort as they have gained more knowledge and have spent more time practising.

To summarise, a persons best effort can be rubbish. Just because someone says they gave it their best effort doesn't mean the output was good/top of the field.

Also the term "best effort" is a huge simplification. It ignores the important details of what actions a person took, which means it is impossible to know what went wrong.
 
Do you have in-depth brain/medical research to prove this is true?

This sounds like something you have written to make yourself feel better about yourself.
I'm motivated and in control of my thoughts (most of the time - I'm still human) so I feel plenty good about myself without needing to write a statement about it.

Do you honestly believe you've no influence over your thought processes? If so then I feel sorry for you, life must be very difficult and feel incredibly unfair and geared against you.
 
I'm motivated and in control of my thoughts (most of the time - I'm still human) so I feel plenty good about myself without needing to write a statement about it.

Do you honestly believe you've no influence over your thought processes? If so then I feel sorry for you, life must be very difficult and feel incredibly unfair and geared against you.

Well, i assume i have influence of my thought process. We still know virtually nothing about the human brain in a lot of ways. But yes i do believe i have free will/control of what i do.

My point was that your post appears to put forward the premise that we all have exactly the same brain/baseline to act from which i think is categorically NOT true. I imagine there are a colossal amount of genetic and upbringing factors that can affect a human's motivation and thought processes.

You said "People do not inherently lack self motivation or drive.". What on earth do you base that on?
 
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