Soldato
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Meh, Iran was better off when it was being run by Phil Leotardo.
Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe faces new charge in Iran.
- Thread starter stockhausen
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Ahhh yes; Iran was a peaceful, tolerant, democratic state prior to the 1980s.
That'll be after the British and the Americans engineered a coup, deposing the democratically elected and very popular PM Mosaddegh when he sought to establish Iran's independence from Russia, Britain and America.
You might want to ask some of the victims of the CIA trained SAVAK just how peaceful and tolerant Iran was under the autocratic rule of the Shah - except that many of them died while being tortured
Ahhh yes; Iran was a peaceful, tolerant, democratic state prior to the 1980s.
That'll be after the British and the Americans engineered a coup, deposing the democratically elected and very popular PM Mosaddegh when he sought to establish Iran's independence from Russia, Britain and America.
You might want to ask some of the victims of the CIA trained SAVAK just how peaceful and tolerant Iran was under the autocratic rule of the Shah - except that many of them died while being tortured
Yeah. Wasn't a democracy before, but was a much more pleasant, tolerant and open society than it is now. It wasn't a trouble maker on the international stage either.
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Tolerant hey
That will be a reference to the Shah's very "tolerant" secret police I guess
As to not being "a trouble maker on the international stage" I really don't think that either Britain or America are in any position to accuse anyone of being a trouble maker - for a start, we did engineer a coup of the democratically elected and popular government in Iran
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Tolerant hey
That will be a reference to the Shah's very "tolerant" secret police I guess
As to not being "a trouble maker on the international stage" I really don't think that either Britain or America are in any position to accuse anyone of being a trouble maker - for a start, we did engineer a coup of the democratically elected and popular government in Iran
I said more tolerant than the current government. Try to read maybe?
Unless you believe Iran is currently a more tolerant, open and pleasant society than it used to be, I don’t understand how you can object to what I said.
As for the 1953 coup, the UK and US engineered it, and the people who did the 1979 revolution (including Khomeini himself, and his mentor Kashani) backed it too. Again, not sure what you’re trying to achieve by pointing to irrelevant things, apart from self-flagellation.
Went for a 2 week holiday back in 2017. Our companies security team said it was largely fine for a Brit (born & bred) & German to go but don't lie to them during your visa application or to border control.
The old US embassy with anti-US art, graffiti all around the walls & on art stands within the grounds was abit weird. Not something you tend to see when visiting places in general.
The main thing that struck me was the terrible attitude toward women of the younger generation. One guy openly chatted up my misses right in front of me, as if I wasn't present, checking her out, was very disrespectful (but hey I'm a 'decadent westerner').
Another asked for a photo with my misses then showed off all his gf's on his phone (as if we were meant to be impressed?), wrote down something on paper for us which turned out to be filthy words. Our guide said her ex cheated on her & just alround felt like women were second class citizens.
I'll say this though, it was clear they were the more educated of two. Also most didn't believe in the religious nonsense but was very ingrained into their education so had little choice but to become an authority on the subject. Younger women hated having the hijab on & most positioned in the minimum allowed by law (very far back on the head to the point of largely starting on the crown).
Glad we went, some lovely folks in the rural part's but wouldn't go now.
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Yeah, credit where credit is due, Putin is more tolerant than Stalin was - well done him!
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You still here stockhausen? Iranians need you over there, not behind a keyboard in wherever you are shy to reveal. I mean, what's the worst that can happen under this wonderful regime?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...r-navid-afkari-executed-despite-global-outcry
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...r-navid-afkari-executed-despite-global-outcry
I see the new trial as been postponed.
Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe: New trial postponed in Iran
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54138055
This is getting embarrassing for Iran. Whatever we think of them they have their own systems of doing things. But for them to announce another trial shows their own systems are failing, or are being made to fail by a reactionary group of people. At one time I thought Iran was the more reasonable of the highly religious countries in that part of the world. But it seems they are losing control of their own system.
There is no propaganda value in re-trialing her.
Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe: New trial postponed in Iran
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54138055
This is getting embarrassing for Iran. Whatever we think of them they have their own systems of doing things. But for them to announce another trial shows their own systems are failing, or are being made to fail by a reactionary group of people. At one time I thought Iran was the more reasonable of the highly religious countries in that part of the world. But it seems they are losing control of their own system.
There is no propaganda value in re-trialing her.
Given the context of this thread, it’s more like someone saying Stalin is bad, and you insert yourself in the conservation, spending so much time and effort to basically say that Putin is also bad.
Soldato
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Whatever happens - gag BoZo and she might get home. If he blabs she will get another four years
Caporegime
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When you say embarrassing, why is it embarrassing for Iran?
They want to exert the most psychological damage possible which is exactly what they are doing. They have managed to keep her in prison for 3 years and tagged for another on possibly spurious charges.
If we could keep people in prison for this length of time and keep delaying trials for criminals I would be ecstatic.
Well, I would never be proud if we could just hold people without trial for so long. I value the rule of law and the right to a fair trial for everyone.
Caporegime
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It depends on your view if the law system in place doesn't it?
If your prisons and judges are feckless and sentencing guidelines weak then there is nothing to be proud of at all.
Until we start using a true consecutive sentencing policy with meaningful punishments that fit the crimes then I will feel free to look upon other countries who go sbout the task of punishing criminals in a much harsher way with a wholly different view.
I'd pick a toothless legal system/judiciary over authoritarianism and totalitarianism any day of the week (being originally from an authoritarian and totalitarianism country, I've seen both sides of this).
Also depends on the crime in the end, a lot of crimes don't need harsh punishments, some do and while I do think we're sometimes too lenient on serious crimes, I think overall we get it a lot more right than wrong. I would never want our legal system to be like the US (highest per capita prison population among the developed western countries), or even worse, like Iran's which you are admiring (tens of thousands of political prisoners, thousands of political executions, years of holding prisons without the right to see lawyers or having a trial, execution or decades of prison for political dissent, forced confessions under torture, etc etc).
Once you let the state hold people without due process, who do you think they'll end up locking up? People who they don't like. Like journalists and political rivals, we've seen this all over the world happen far too often. Benevolent totalitarianism is a fantasy.
Caporegime
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Well thats a point of view.
For me where you have men raping women and rhen murdering them, or killing policemen and laughing about the case as they get wheeled away, you realise that serving less than 1/5 of your expected lifespan in a cushy warm/comfortable jail is hardly punishment at all.
That's a sentencing issue, allowing the government to hold people without trials won't address that. I'm all for reforming sentencing to make them more realistic, no arguments there.
They devote their lives to a non existant entity and a book written by a few guys a while back.. What would you expect?