NEARLY 2 YEARS WAITING: New Mustang GT PP is finally mine!

[Gibbo]

Hi there

This is a stunning achievement, over 1000BHP on a completely stock 2015 Mustang:

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?1110172-930-Horsepower-Stock-Motor-2015-Mustang


Will it last, probably not, from speaking with the owner he does not expect it to last either as is prepared to build an uprated motor once it decides to let go.

Even more impressive is he has not even upgraded the oil pump gears, crank pulley or anything, everything is literally as it left factory of course apart from the power adder.

The only upgrade is an uprated clutch to handle the power.

 

[Gibbo]

At what point is a clutch upgrade required? Depending on how it's setup i assume, torque being more the reason than power?

Really when going super charged, some need them and some do not, depending on power levels, driving style. Some have issues at 650BHP, others have no issues with 700+, seems not every stock clutch is equal.

I shall leave mine stock until it begins to slip.

On my last Mustang 510BHP super charged was no issue at all. When I reduced pulley size and went to 575BHP and 500lb/ft it start to slip in 4th upwards, six months later it was slipping in 3rd at which point it was upgraded. A decent clutch kit is around £500 and pretty straight forward to install, did it myself with a mate on the last one.

 

[Gibbo]

Saw a Mustang approaching from behind on the M25 the other day, so I opened my windows expecting to hear the V8. Imagine my disappointment when I noticed the lack of 5.0 badges...

No offence to anyone with an ecoboost but the owners must feel embarrassed at times!

Reason I say this is because my car gets attention, from all types and all ages. My last Mustang attracted the attention from petrol heads, kids and other drivers on the road, all positive. Women however were very 50/50 on it, some disliked it and some liked it.

The new car however is different, women seem to really like it, I am putting it down because women see it as a high value car, they see a horse, big shiny car, roaring engine (good sound) and just assume money, so gold digging mode activates.
Those who do not follow cars or actually know how much it cost who ask me what I paid, I never tell them now, I just say how much do you reckon, the lowest value I've being given was 60k and one person said near 100k. LOL!!!!!!
Those who I tell it cost me 40k including what I have done think I am joking, they look completely shocked and amazed.
The car does have a great image, attention is positive, people think its worth way more than it really is and certainly around my way its incredibly rare sighting. The people who I get talking to say they only see mine and a red one, which I know is local to me but I am still yet to see it.

Back to the ecoboost, the amount of people who ask me to rev it or boot it past them happens frequently followed by thumbs up and massive grins and thumbs up. Still people on the street or passengers in cars whipping out camera phones to take pictures happens frequently. There is no denying the interest the car generates, the only other Ford that could do this would be the GT.

I can only imagine the disappointment on peoples faces when they ask an ecoboost owner to do the above.

 

[Gibbo]

Have you bought this car out right?

Can only imagine the monthly payments on something like this.


Jealous btw!

28k paid, 7k on finance for two years as was 4.9% or 5.9% can't remember, was gonna buy outright but made sense to finance a small amount as meant I could just buy outright my mods instead of using credit cards and have cash in bank.

 

[Gibbo]

Went to a drifting day today (not in Mustang).


Some photos I grabbed, this car looks immense from above, such beautiful lines, even in the grim nasty weather what a great looking car the S550 is.

Ford track pack spoiler just looks so perfect on this car from every angle, aggression, elegance and factory look.




Buddy grabbed a few videos of a few flyby's but unfortunately due to being at NS speeds road noise was too much and video quality is poor.

Still here is a couple of videos:

 

[Gibbo]

 

[Gibbo]

So Gibbo, when are you doing the headers......
Holy **** that sounds good.

Hope to have them on when I come back from far east and holidays, they are being designed and fabricated as we speak on a Mustang UK RHD V8, should be finished, tested and dyno'd in a couple of weeks at which point I can go and fit mine.

Though my car right now does not sound much different from that, they have much better recording equipment to pick up the truer sound.

 

[Gibbo]

Hi there

I've had my car nearly six months now and 3500 miles in, average mpg is now sitting around 17mpg, identical to what the 911 did on same style driving.

Still instead of raving how great the car is and how I enjoy driving it I thought I'd share the negative parts of ownership.


- Ford warranty: They are keen to fix things, but then fall flat on their face when it comes to repairing with simple task taking days and parts weeks to arrive, I've given up for now as I refuse to let them have my car more than half a day. My issues are minor, being a scratch to drivers door glass which is hard to see, puddle lamp being dis-storted and boot slightly marking rear bumper when closed. They have agreed to fix them all, but I shall do it in a few months when hopefully they are more experienced.

- Gear box, not a fault of the car its a lovely change at normal speeds or moderately quick, very positive change. If you try to rush it for example doing a quick 0-60 run it feels harsh on the box. As such having mechanical sympathy actually achieving a sub 5.5s to 60 is not easy, let alone sub 5s. Something an auto would day without breaking a sweat. When I am in the mood for a drive the manual is superb and fun plus instant whip lash response. But when one wants to be lazy or have a traffic light grand prix the auto is the better choice, though on paddles its a bit slow. If they make the new 10 speed an option I will probably put my car mostly back to stock and trade in. Again more personal choice than fault of the car, do I wish I went auto, well no, just sometimes it would be nice to have. Right now I enjoy it being a manual more, but would be nice to have best of both worlds, aka 10 speed new auto.

- Wet handling, its poor though I believe its mainly down to the tyres which throw in the towel with little warning very easily. But the car feels nervous on the Pzero's in the wet, I believe its tyres as my 911 also felt nervous on the Pzero's in the wet, but in fairness when it let go it was easier to recover and the 911 grip limits in the wet are way beyond the Mustang could ever dream to be, but that is rear engine mechanical grip for you. I believe some decent wet tyres like MPSS for subjective fee and progressiveness shall improve the car a lot, but it will never match a Porka for wet ability, particular a 911. But in the wet on Pzero the Mustang takes a lot of skill and talent to keep it on the black stuff and pointing in right direction.

On the flip side in the dry I love the handling, the car has such huge grip and high limits, even on Pzero in medium and long sweepers and larger roundabouts it can corner faster than both the 911 and M3. It also moves around so much at the limit and get sideways so progressively and lovely, I think this moving around it does could be why its so loose in the wet, but in the dry its huge fun. Of course tighter corners and quick direction changes both its size and weight work against it, the 911 again was superior and also the M3 though the M3 is not remotely stock weighing around 1300kg and being on coilovers etc.

But now I am sat here, trying to figure out what else I dislike and well I am really struggling, yes some of the interior plastics could be better but I don't notice them and they are certainly not out of place for what the car cost.

I suppose I could say its not fast enough but not really a fault of the car, I just want more power which was always the plan anyway.

So some negatives but a vast amount more positives in the drive and the reactions it brings from people. Finally spotted my 2nd on the road yesterday a race red V8, the owner spotted me and flashed, returned favour. I park up in my drive and seconds later he is there.

Turns out he is the guy neighbours have told me about who owns the other one in Stoke and owns the pub up the road. He got out introduced himself and apologised for turning round and chasing me but he wanted to know what exhaust was on the car as he loved the sound, haha.

So yes, I feel tyres will help change my mind on wet performance, though will never be quite 911 capable and then the only other thing if I could make a wish would be a DCT style gear box.

Hope for July I shall have headers fitted and my new wheels and MPSS tyres.

 

[Gibbo]

Literally makes no sense. The police would be a million times better off using Focus RS' instead...

The RS would be the thinking choice.

But its clear its a PR stunt and the Mustang has way way more history and world wide following than a Focus, lol.

Not really hard to grasp, Mustang one of the most iconic cars in the world, Focus is just that a Focus, no one cares no matter how great the RS version is.

 

[Gibbo]

Question for the owners. Ford have told my father he has to go to Ipswich to pick his up. Has everyone had to do this or are they taking the mickey?

I collected mine from the dealership I ordered from, the Ford network can in theory transport the car to any dealer of your choice I would have thought.

 

[Gibbo]

Hi there


This made me laugh hard, I think he is on the verge of having a heart attack:
http://www.expressen.se/motor/vi-rivstartar-top-gear-med-sabine-schmitz/

The first video is better with the old German guy!

 

[Gibbo]

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[Gibbo]

What is 'negative knock' ?

Opposite of positive knock.

The ECU table for spark can be pre-set by the tuner, most target 25-26 degrees spark to be on the safe side at WOT, of course the ignition advance varies greatly depending on RPM, throttle input, load etc. etc, all best left to the tuner.

The ECU can then remove or add upto 8 degrees either way from the knock sensor reading, positive knock means it pulls timing and ideally you want to avoid this happening at all, though +1-2 degrees of positive knock won't cause harm and the ECU will retard the timing.

Negative knock is the opposite, the knock sensor lets the ECU know it can add more timing/spark which when it detects negative knock it will do.

Basically the ECU like most other modern cars can add and pull timing based on numerous sensors throughout the car, so having good fuel means typically you see negative knock and the car adds timing and the opposite happens for poor fuel. In short put in crap fuel, positive knock goes off, timing gets pulled, or engine goes boom if the car is mapped for a higher RON fuel. Put in really good fuel and ECU can see this from negative knock and it adds timing. Of course other things can cause knock sensor to go off positive or negative as well.


If the car was custom tuned they would set the spark to a point where there is no positive knock and around just a couple of degrees of negative knock. Reason is even if the car detects negative knock of say -6.00, the car will only add 1-2 degrees of spark so could still be down on power slightly. The car will pull a lot of timing if it detects positive knock (safety) but will only add in a little when it detects negative knock, again safety.

But in short negative knock just means the car is adding timing and the tune could be further optimised, in short it is safe. I am not interested in fine tuning right now, best case another 10 horsepower and a few datalogs done, right now it drives fine I am not bothered about 5-10 horses, so shall leave. Also the ECU learns over long term, in short keep putting in good fuel and it will eventually just set more ignition itself, but will take a few tank fulls to get there. Fill with crap and it will pull that timing real quick but will take a while to put it back.

They can get the tune optimal once manifolds are fitted, I prefer to play it safe.


P.S. The Ford stock map also has negative knock when filling with Vpower, as the car adjust power depending on octane.

 

[Gibbo]

It sounds like retarding the ignition timing to me....

I am sure he gets it.

Positive knock, negative knock, ignition timing retard/advance, spark advance retard/advance, all the same.

Just because its not the terminology he is used to he likes to make a fuss.

 

[Gibbo]

Knock is an event, just because it doesnt happen doesnt mean its negative.

Why dont you call it guessed ignition advance
#negativeproperterminology.

Positive knock?!? crying.

8 degress swing from the ECU? Lets be honest its some hack thing, 8 degrees is next to nothing for real adjustment and using the knock sensor to adjust that on the fly is frankly scary but i guess NA allows these abuse cases.

That is what I was trying to explain, it does happen, the knock sensor on the car does send a signal, in both negative and positive.

Cry all you like, it is just American terminology, like they call rubbish trash etc. But in the datalog software it does go both ways, I am not tuning the car I just merely datalogged the stock map and my new map and queried what negative knock was because as far as I was concerned any form of knock was bad and meant their was an issue. They informed me negative knock is good and just the ECU dialling in more ignition, it is just positive knock to worry about which my stock map and tuned map had none present.

Whether scary or not, that is how Ford have the car setup to work, I datalogged the stock map on the car, the knock sensor was reporting -4.0 at WOT on Shell Vpower on Fords stock map. I posted the datalogs openly on US forums and sent to a couple of tuners including the guys who tuned my old Mustang, who explained absolutely perfectly normal.

If your really interested here is a video by another tuner about datalogging:

The knock sensor in the software can go both negative and positive, I really think it is pretty self explanatory and easy to understand even if Americans use different terminology compared to British tuners.

 

[Gibbo]

Hardly, what you are talking about is simply ignition timing. A knock sensor is just a microphone. The concept of it being able to tell the ECU that it can add ignition timing beyond the stored values is absolute rubbish. It's simply an emergency invade the engine knocks. It shouldnt be used as a tuning tool. Only a few engine have active ignition management. Saab pioneered it and the M5 V10 uses it via ionisation of the air in the combustion chamber via the spark plugs.

You don't even know the best ignition timing without a feedback (measure the power). This system you are using is just running the engine on the edge of knock. This is likely not even the best ignition timing

I guess all Diesels engines all have negative knock. When they are parked and not running ! Anyway - got to go. Got to negative forward to get my car off my drive

Seems how Ford set the car up, whether right or wrong, I do not care, if Ford had made some big error they'd be blowing up like crazy.

If I am merely describing it wrong or have miss-understood the Americans then so be it, like you not got time to waste. I am merely seeing what the software reports in the datalog from the knock sensor as it can go both to negative and positive values. Time to go and fire the V8 up!

 

[Gibbo]

Gorgeous car i did think of ordering myself but bottled it as the type of driving i would do in traffic would give me about 10 MPG lol.
Have you tried the stereo yet ?
I remember when i got a Cougar V6 i only listened to the engine for the first 2 weeks

Guessing stereo is a trick question?

The V8 sounds glorious in the car, deep American rumble/burble and low revs and light throttle but at full throttle it turns into a snarling beast.

But yes I do listen to the radio from time to time, traffic, motorways and I find the sound system pretty good, it is certainly an improvement over the Bose that was in the 911.

 

[Gibbo]

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[Gibbo]

Bye bye Mustang

Pointless test though why not compare two manuals or two auto's?

The auto Mustang beats the manual Mustang in a drag race and a DCT equipped car will do so even more as the auto in the Mustang is pretty basic but it can still change gear quicker than the manual.

They should compare with the auto as enough reviews show it doing 12.8s quarters so a lot closer though BMW should still win.

Still Mustang for sounds, looks every time or just throw the difference in money on a blower and bring that quarter down to 10s and still have change!

 

[Gibbo]

Not defensive, accurate. They're comparing one car to another that costs 30% more!
Stick a turbo or supercharger on the ford for part of that cost difference and the tables would change completely.

Was not meant t come across defensive. Auto gear boxes in last ten years or so have transformed cars performance! I've driven the M4 both manual and DCT and in comparison the DCT feels far quicker and it really is as well. Over a second faster on the 0-100 sprint.

Auto boxes these days are so much quicker than manuals even when the guy in the manual is rather capable but the auto is still faster and then get someone who is average at changing gear and well the auto is in another league.

The price difference does not bother me, if Mustang was 50k and M2 45k, I'd still buy the Mustang, for me it's more of an event and more special.

My issue with the review is compare manual to manual and auto to auto, it's a bad and unfair test as its not comparing apples to apples. I bet the auto Mustang beats the manual M2 for example.

Auto's are superb for drag racing as you got consistent fast results, whereas with a manual it is far harder and the difference between a good and bad run can be over a second.