NEC LCD20WGX2 review *** UPDATED 25/02/06 ***
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Soldato
zonta said:
It's either that or tearing on a lot of TFT panels. Mine included.
Cheers for the replies guys. Is there anything i can do to improve dvd playback quality. Was really looking forward to watching films in widescreen format but the picture quality just got on my nerves. The best way to describe is pixalated.
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zonta said:
You need to learn about LCD's my friend, their max refresh rate is 60hz, therefore you will never get more than 60fps in-game. The 7800GTX is to make sure your system copes at the demanding resolution of 1600*1050 with all the effect enabled.
Caporegime
zonta said:
why do you need more ?
you wont be able to distinguish rock solid 60 fps from 80fps
the human eye is just incapable of seeing the difference. Some say the "visible" boundary is at 30fps. After all, normal telly refreshes 30 times a second, and nobody complains about that ..
You shouldn't have the tearing in movies. Movie playback noise yes, but tearing should not be visible. This panel is fast and it should coupe with the fast action movie sequences just fine (from my experience). Now, movie playback noise is normal for all LCD screen and it's even more pronounced on bigger screens. You may try Advanced DVM ON, decrease the brightness level and switch the monitor to normal or movie profile (it's up to your preference). That should help (at least for me) and minimise the movie noise (or twinkling effect). Also, watch your movies from relative distance (at least 1.5m - 2m).zonta said:
This was mentioned in other thread on this forum but I think that it deserves to be here, definitely.
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It seems that sometimes potential users of this monitor are worried about the movie playback and "twinkling effect" especially after the BeHardware review (only) where there was just one particular category where the monitor didn't shine - movie playback. In reality, is that really so ? I would like to share a few words here.
Movie playback noise (or twinkling) exist on all LCD panels. Usually, such noise is dependant on the panel type and most importantly panel overdrive control. If you want noise friendly panel, probably the very slow MVA panels (at least 20ms) are preferable and they will do the job. Unfortunately you will have two side effects: strong afterglow & ghosting as those panels are simply not fast enough for fast action movie sequences. When you watch such sequences, blurring is visible, ghosting is persistent and it's usually presented as coloured trail of light. Simply put, it's not acceptable and effect is similar when you are playing the fast action games on LCD panel with very slow response time. This the major reason why I think that for the movie playback it's essential that panel is *fast*. As the unfortunate downside, overdrive kicks in with the faster panels and you are greeted with the movie playback noise. Maybe "something in between" and possible compromise are the faster 8ms MVA panels where the movie playback noise is less pronounceable (but it's still there). Now, with the MVA panels viewing angles are so so (and this is important for the movie playback) and picture quality/clarity and colour richness are simply not on the same level as with the new generations of the IPS panels. Also, IPS panels may offer better viewing angles. It seems that with the new generation of the IPS panels (AS-IPS) some progress was made for the movie playback, but of course it's still again far from perfect (as for the most LCD panels around). One interesting thing about the LG.Philips 1600:1 AS-IPS panels is that they are supporting the 1600:1 contrast ratio with the Advanced DVM and when you combine this mode with the custom monitor profiles and brightness it's quite possible that you may minimise the twinkling effect and results are really surprising (as far as I can tell). Also, NEC monitor (and US version of course) are declared for the movie playback, so generally movie playback should be on the acceptable level.
Now, you probably wonder where this is all going and if there is any logic in this ? Unfortunately, there is *no* perfect monitor panel for the movie playback. Simply as that. If you want dedicated movie machine with the excellent reproduction quality ... LCD TVs are probably preferable option for now.
Solution for the LCD monitors and movie playback is that you simply watch your movies from the distance. Even from 1.5m movie noise or twinkling is starting to fade away and it will be less pronounced and at the same time movie playback will be more enjoyable. At the end did you ever tried to watch your LCD TV from the close (like 1.5m) proximity ? I tried with my 32" Sony LCD TV. It's quite horrible (even with the digital TV channels) as the picture noise is present & persistent.
For the people who are concerned about the movie playback, maybe some of our dear forum readers, who are already using the NEC monitor, can help here and post their impressions about the movie playback. It would be probably more useful than my chit-chat from the above As I already mentioned to you, movie playback was acceptable for me (especially after some monitor tweaking) but in order to have global picture maybe some other users comments are more then welcomed.
---
It seems that sometimes potential users of this monitor are worried about the movie playback and "twinkling effect" especially after the BeHardware review (only) where there was just one particular category where the monitor didn't shine - movie playback. In reality, is that really so ? I would like to share a few words here.
Movie playback noise (or twinkling) exist on all LCD panels. Usually, such noise is dependant on the panel type and most importantly panel overdrive control. If you want noise friendly panel, probably the very slow MVA panels (at least 20ms) are preferable and they will do the job. Unfortunately you will have two side effects: strong afterglow & ghosting as those panels are simply not fast enough for fast action movie sequences. When you watch such sequences, blurring is visible, ghosting is persistent and it's usually presented as coloured trail of light. Simply put, it's not acceptable and effect is similar when you are playing the fast action games on LCD panel with very slow response time. This the major reason why I think that for the movie playback it's essential that panel is *fast*. As the unfortunate downside, overdrive kicks in with the faster panels and you are greeted with the movie playback noise. Maybe "something in between" and possible compromise are the faster 8ms MVA panels where the movie playback noise is less pronounceable (but it's still there). Now, with the MVA panels viewing angles are so so (and this is important for the movie playback) and picture quality/clarity and colour richness are simply not on the same level as with the new generations of the IPS panels. Also, IPS panels may offer better viewing angles. It seems that with the new generation of the IPS panels (AS-IPS) some progress was made for the movie playback, but of course it's still again far from perfect (as for the most LCD panels around). One interesting thing about the LG.Philips 1600:1 AS-IPS panels is that they are supporting the 1600:1 contrast ratio with the Advanced DVM and when you combine this mode with the custom monitor profiles and brightness it's quite possible that you may minimise the twinkling effect and results are really surprising (as far as I can tell). Also, NEC monitor (and US version of course) are declared for the movie playback, so generally movie playback should be on the acceptable level.
Now, you probably wonder where this is all going and if there is any logic in this ? Unfortunately, there is *no* perfect monitor panel for the movie playback. Simply as that. If you want dedicated movie machine with the excellent reproduction quality ... LCD TVs are probably preferable option for now.
Solution for the LCD monitors and movie playback is that you simply watch your movies from the distance. Even from 1.5m movie noise or twinkling is starting to fade away and it will be less pronounced and at the same time movie playback will be more enjoyable. At the end did you ever tried to watch your LCD TV from the close (like 1.5m) proximity ? I tried with my 32" Sony LCD TV. It's quite horrible (even with the digital TV channels) as the picture noise is present & persistent.
For the people who are concerned about the movie playback, maybe some of our dear forum readers, who are already using the NEC monitor, can help here and post their impressions about the movie playback. It would be probably more useful than my chit-chat from the above As I already mentioned to you, movie playback was acceptable for me (especially after some monitor tweaking) but in order to have global picture maybe some other users comments are more then welcomed.
Thanks for putting things in perspective Badass. I do take what you're saying and I think to a certain extent you're right. We're not so much finding faults as noting an imperfection in the technology. The only annoying thing is that some people, like Igors, have perfectly uniform displays and it's a little frustrating to know that perfection can be achieved but it's all down to luck. Also, for more than £400 it's understandable to have reasonably high expectations.
That said I've decided (though not 100%) that I will probably keep my monitor despite the bleed. It has no dead pixels, great blacks, really good OSD options and it's an all-round top monitor. The glare in the corners is noticeable on a pure black background but nowhere else so I'm going to try and live with it (I have until Friday to change my mind) Will put in a few hours of X3 and Doom 3 this week to see if it's really distracting and unless it's really off putting I'll keep it.
Oh and for anyone with a 360, Plugged it in and it's pretty good. Only problem is the monitor's not high enough resolution to run in 1080 HD so you're stuck with 720. That means it still has to be stretched to fit the screen and you do lose a certain amount of clarity from that. Just FYI.
That said I've decided (though not 100%) that I will probably keep my monitor despite the bleed. It has no dead pixels, great blacks, really good OSD options and it's an all-round top monitor. The glare in the corners is noticeable on a pure black background but nowhere else so I'm going to try and live with it (I have until Friday to change my mind) Will put in a few hours of X3 and Doom 3 this week to see if it's really distracting and unless it's really off putting I'll keep it.
Oh and for anyone with a 360, Plugged it in and it's pretty good. Only problem is the monitor's not high enough resolution to run in 1080 HD so you're stuck with 720. That means it still has to be stretched to fit the screen and you do lose a certain amount of clarity from that. Just FYI.
Soldato
Ordered mine, arrives Wednesday....nice new toy to go with my shiny new XFX7900gtx. I've got a Colorvision Optical Spyder at work so I may borrow it to calibrate the NEC.
Associate
I cant get through to them 
but thanks for posting, at least I know it wont be today or tomorrow they will swap mine out but a day when I am back in work, always the way.
but thanks for posting, at least I know it wont be today or tomorrow they will swap mine out but a day when I am back in work, always the way.MrLOL said:
You dont understand the difference between TV film and rendered images. TV film has an inherent motion blur that softens the frames. This is why 24fps film appears smooth. 24fps in games does not appear smooth.
You can easily see all the way past 100 frames a second.. but depending on the content you can fool the eye into thinking much less is smooth enuff.
Associate
Yep on my mitsubushi 900u Diamond pro I can easily see the difference between 60 hrz and 80 hrz playing a game although subtle, however playing far cry at 144 hrz on that monitor has shown me whats possible in terms fluid motion on a screen.
Since my 900u Ive bought a 2005fpw and its no way near as silky being capped at 60 hrz, but it's hrz well spent I say, for the trade off in picture quality and perfect geometry and I think even better colour rendition.
A little motion blur bothered me at first but now I've got used to it, playing a lot of HL2 DM and loving it. dispite blur, rather have motion blur than afterglow.
also I tried a 2405fpw wasn't happy with colour rendition or afterglow caused by the overdrive. and viewing angles a lil shallow too. So I stuck with the 2005fpw for now.
I really wanna see this NEC though
This screen should be excellent for hl2 right ?, pictures ?
Since my 900u Ive bought a 2005fpw and its no way near as silky being capped at 60 hrz, but it's hrz well spent I say, for the trade off in picture quality and perfect geometry and I think even better colour rendition.
A little motion blur bothered me at first but now I've got used to it, playing a lot of HL2 DM and loving it. dispite blur, rather have motion blur than afterglow.
also I tried a 2405fpw wasn't happy with colour rendition or afterglow caused by the overdrive. and viewing angles a lil shallow too. So I stuck with the 2005fpw for now.
I really wanna see this NEC though
This screen should be excellent for hl2 right ?, pictures ?
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FPS business is perceptive, at least for some of us. I personally tried switching on my old DiamondPro 740SB from 60Hz-85Hz ... couldn't tell the difference (and I scaled down the game details in order to obtain such fps). Also, > 60 fps on the latest gaming titles, in WS resolution glory, with good details and "down to earth" hardware is simply distant dream. For now.
Maybe this could help:
http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm
Maybe this could help:
http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm
