Never ever going to buy another ipod or reconmend them to any one

[BoomAM]

No it isn't. I've already explained why. YOU don't understand the difference. An interface that uses drag and drop is NOT the same as drag and drop in the context of an MP3 player.

I fully understand the difference. I just choose not to accept as a difference when it isnt one imo.

Some media players don't do it that way.

WYSIWYG yes if you mean tags. iTunes never shows you the underlying files and folders.

You can set it to.

You miss the point. Its not that its hard. He simply doesn't want to do it the iTunes way. Whats hard to understand about that?

Nothing, but when his understanding of the program is based upon mis-use/lack of understanding, then it becomes a different matter.

Well I agree. He should. Theres better apps than iTunes.

Moot point.
I used to hate iTunes, allways used EphPod, but since i got my 5g iPod, ive liked using it.

 

[benjo plz.]

Moot

You is loving that word .

Apple seem to have a bit of MS product pushing on at the the moment, if you want Quicktime, its coming with iTunes whether you like it or not. Quicktime alternative for me tbh.

 

[BoomAM]

Its a great word. Dont knock it.
You can rip QT out of iTunes bty. Open the DLed file in WinRAR or something similar and then take out the iTunes installer file.

 

[Brum Man]

I would probably recommend the OP have a read around here , may help you out with any of the probelms that you might have.

 

[benjo plz.]

You can rip QT out of iTunes bty. Open the DLed file in WinRAR or something similar and then take out the iTunes installer file.

heh, excellent thanks .

 

[Things change I've changed]

I just don't understand

Shame I know, but I'm afraid it's YOUR lack of understanding that seems to be the problem here and I can keep going until this thread gets closed down of you wish,

itunes is not True drag and drop, you seem to have serious lack of understanding as to what drag and drop actually is, shame really b-cos of this lack of understanding you seem to find it hard to construct an intelligent counter post

Millions of people have mp3 players that do not require the use of a utility to transfer their music onto their mp3 players, they open thier mp3 player from within "my computer", they select the folders they want to DRAG onto their player, they DRAG thoses folders across into the window that represents thier player, then the mp3 player composes a playlist in the exact order of the folders and file/mp3's (the same as it was on your computer), and OMG you,ve just learn't what TRUE drag and drop is

yes I know this is a tech forum and people complain but that does not mean you have to roam around it having a condacending attitude towards people just b-cos they disagree with the way in which a programme works , I don't like the way itunes works thats it, sorry if i,ve hurt your EGO but then as you've already said, this is a tech forum.

 

[benjo plz.]

/waits for flames.

 

[Sparky191]

I fully understand the difference. I just choose not to accept as a difference when it isnt one imo.

Well I refuse to accept that iTunes & iPod is a UMS drag and drop system when it...

Needs a driver
Needs tags
Needs a DB (iTunes library)
Can't navigate by filetree
Can't organise files other than by Artist/Album
Can't use filetree on the iPod

You can set it to.

If it can be set to do all those things. Then please tell me how.

 

[BoomAM]

First of all lowrider007, editing quotes off me to suit your argument doesnt make you look good in anyway. All it proves is your lack ability to argue. And your childishness.

and I can keep going until this thread gets closed down of you wish,

Maturity there. Proves my above point really.
And your lack of understanding on the forum rules. Go and read them.
The thread wont be closed unless one of us drops the level to excessive personal attacks.

itunes is not True drag and drop, you seem to have serious lack of understanding as to what drag and drop actually is, shame really b-cos of this lack of understanding you seem to find it hard to construct an intelligent counter post

lol.
Im being told i cant counter post due to intelligence when ive A) countered every point of yours thus far, and b) off a person who cant spell properly.
lol.

I think its you who doesnt know what drag/drop is.
You drag the music to iTunes. You drop it over the iTunes windows. iTunes performs an operation.
That is Drag/drop.
Basic definition:

In computer graphical user interfaces, drag-and-drop is the action of (or support for the action of) clicking on a virtual object and dragging it onto another virtual object. The basic sequence involved in drag-and-drop is: * Press, and hold down, the button on the mouse or other pointing device, to "grab" the object,* "Drag" the object/cursor/pointing device to the desired location,* "Drop" the object by releasing the button.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=14&oi=define&q=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_and_drop

Your definition of drag/drop seems to be something slightly warped. Where you confuse the ability to drag/drop onto an app with drag/drop in Explorer.
When regardless of where the files are being dropped, its still drag/drop.

Millions of people have mp3 players that do not require the use of a utility to transfer their music onto their mp3 players, they open thier mp3 player from within "my computer", they select the folders they want to DRAG onto their player, they DRAG thoses folders across into the window that represents thier player, then the mp3 player composes a playlist in the exact order of the folders and file/mp3's (the same as it was on your computer), and OMG you,ve just learn't what TRUE drag and drop is

Ah, but your argument wasnt if a player needed software.
Your argument was that iTunes didnt display things how you wanted it to.
Dont change it now. It throws the arguement in your favour then. Or prehaps that was your intention?

yes I know this is a tech forum and people complain but that does not mean you have to roam around it having a condacending attitude towards people just b-cos they disagree with the way in which a programme works , I don't like the way itunes works thats it, sorry if i,ve hurt your EGO but then as you've already said, this is a tech forum.

lol.
Gotta love it really. This is what i like about this forum, the range of people we get on here.

If you think im being 'condacending' (as you put it), then thats your misinterpritation.
But, you seem to confuse my points as a personal attack when they are anything but. I think you need to learn to differentiate between the two.

Why again are you arguing for the original poster? Or do you just like a good argument?

If it can be set to do all those things. Then please tell me how.

I didnt say all those things. I said to show file locations.
Its on one of the menus, might be in one of the right click ones. I saw it the other day. I'll give it a look in the morning for the exact location, play around with it till then.

 

[Sparky191]

...

I think its you who doesnt know what drag/drop is.
You drag the music to iTunes. You drop it over the iTunes windows. iTunes performs an operation.
That is Drag/drop. ....

No it isn't. In the context of MP3 players drag and drop refers to a player thats supports UMS so that you can drag and drop music and data like you in Windows Explorer. For that reason a Sony player and SonicStage isn't drag and drop either. Even if you do drag and drop files in SonicStage.

I didnt say all those things. I said to show file locations.
I....

But dude All those things ARE drag and drop in the context of MP3 players. Show locations is just a link that brings you out of iTunes into Windows Explorer.

 

[Things change I've changed]

Your definition of drag/drop seems to be something slightly warped. Where you confuse the ability to drag/drop onto an app with drag/drop in Explorer. When regardless of where the files are being dropped, its still drag/drop.

If thats the case then why is it more than common to read information like the following,

"While the P750 mounts its 20GB hard drive as a USB mass storage device, it prefers its songs are transferred not by drag and drop but by its own software."

and

"One of the few drawbacks to buying a new MP3 player is installing and figuring out the proprietary software that comes with it. Typically, you have to do all of your loading and formatting through an app like Apple iTunes, Windows Media Player 10, or Creative Media Explorer. But what if you could do away with all that and load your player directly through the Windows Explorer file tree?"

I could go on but have a google for your self you'll see what I mean.

Ah, but your argument wasnt if a player needed software.
Your argument was that iTunes didnt display things how you wanted it to.
Dont change it now. It throws the arguement in your favour then. Or prehaps that was your intention?

The reason I said that was b-cos YOU said,

The challenges of loading iTunes, dragging the music into it, and then just plugging in the iPod. Lets not do anything hard here.

Which is not the case, if you want your music sorted by tags then thats fine, BUT, like I,ve said god knows how many times now, The reason I don;t like I tunes is b-cos it DOES NOT HAVE A TRUE DRAG AND DROP feature, are you actually understanding that, players that don't need a utility to transfer music onto to them ARE TRUE DRAG AND DROP, even on most of the mp3 players packaging they state this as an added bonus, "Just drag and drop your music files across" or "Simple drag and drop no software needed" etc, when you drag files into itunes your files are not even moving any were, you are just being forced to make a data base of mp3's sorted by artist, album etc, and then itunes copys thoses files to your ipod, ummmmm thats really drag and drop is'nt it

Gotta love it really. This is what i like about this forum, the range of people we get on here. , if you think im being 'condacending' (as you put it), then thats your misinterpritation.
But, you seem to confuse my points as a personal attack when they are anything but. I think you need to learn to differentiate between the two.

Ummmm really,

If you want help reading the above let me know and i'll spell it out phonetically

and

Nothing, but when his understanding of the program is based upon mis-use/lack of understanding, then it becomes a different matter.

If thats not being condescending then I don't know what is, you are blatantly assuming that I am misusing itunes or have lack of understanding, and how you seem to have came to this patronizing conclusion is b-cos I don't like the way that itunes sorts out music files and would prefer if itunes sorted mp3 files in the same order as they are on your hard which it does NOT, .

Why again are you arguing for the original poster? Or do you just like a good argument?

tbh mate I would have prefered some good advice on how to resolve mine or the OP'ers problems or even maybie a half decent debate but you turned it into an aruguement the minite you started insulting people with your supiroity complex by posting in is thread, with a non-productive post that set the tone of "I am the clever one and everyone else here is stupid and don't know how to use itunes", pretty sad really

 

[benjo plz.]

(as you put it)

The term your looking for is (sic).

 

[BoomAM]

The term your looking for is (sic).

I am sic. I can tell you that.
Of the sheer pedanticness of this discussion. But, it is fun to see the responces.

Its funny to see how your both (not Phnom_Penh, you ignore this, you can laugh if you want though, ), are trying to redefine drag/drop based upon your argument. It doesnt matter how you argue, iTunes is a drag/drop program. It follows all the simple rules of what drag/drop is defined as. Fact.

Your 'idea' of drag/drop is drag/drop in windows itself, without extra applications. Which isnt as convienient as people make out.

While you can argue all you want, you cannot in anyway deny, that once iTunes is installed, and the program is used as intended, wether you like the GUI in it or not, that simply plugging in the iPod and letting it do its think with no user input, is the most convenient, and often simple, way of doing things.
The fact that you dont like this method, and obviously prefer more control over what happens is becides the point.

And its also amusing to see how bits of sarcasm are now taken as insults and highlighted. Shall i highlight the bits where you 'insult' me, or should i take it how it is, as sarcasm?

tbh mate I would have prefered some good advice on how to resolve mine or the OP'ers problems or even maybie a half decent debate but you turned it into an aruguement the minite you started insulting people with your supiroity complex by posting in is thread, with a non-productive post that set the tone of "I am the clever one and everyone else here is stupid and don't know how to use itunes", pretty sad really

So now im getting accused of having a complex, amongst other things, by a person who is basically inhibiting the same, if not worse, attitude as me. Hmm. That makes sence. Good to see we have things on level terms eh?
And your also commenting on tone. On an Forum. A net forum.
Bad idea really. Tone cannot be made out on a net forum. At all. Hence why sarcasm doesnt come across without the right emoticons.

It appears that this discussion has dried up really. If your not willing to take things how they are and discuss without taking everything as insult and without seeing differing opinions as someone else having a complex, i fail to see the point in arguing anymore. Do you?

 

[Sparky191]

If you don't accept that theres a difference between a drag and drop interface and a drag and drop UMS MP3 player theres no point in continuing this. its not lowrider007 "idea" its a common use term as a simple search on the web would illustrate. Its not semantics either its a fundamentally different method of managing MP3's, and a player. Which is why its a key feature for many. Its a fundamental difference between using an iPod/Sony and something like a Cowon, iRiver, Archos. Personally I don't have a problem with either method as I appreciate the pro's and con's of both methods. But its pointless arguing with someone who thinks the world is flat.

 

[Things change I've changed]

.......snip

Look end of the day mate all I was saying when I first made a post on here was that I did,unt like itunes, and then you made a post that assumed I or the people before me are stupid and itunes does what I or the people before me were complaining about when still the fact of the matter is still does not sort music out in a TRUE DRAG AND DROP sense, like quoted on the many mp3 players boxes/manuals/net reviews etc, sorry but you can check this for your self.

So now im getting accused of having a complex, amongst other things, by a person who is basically inhibiting the same, if not worse, attitude as me. Hmm. That makes sence. Good to see we have things on level terms eh?
And your also commenting on tone. On an Forum. A net forum.
Bad idea really. Tone cannot be made out on a net forum. At all. Hence why sarcasm doesnt come across without the right emoticons

Yes I admit I,ve been using a similar attitude, BUT, I came into this thread freindly, non-judgemental and also polite, YOU SIR did NOT, that is the issue, without provocation your first post was pure sarcassaom and patronizing, so then for some reason your suprised when someone retaliates in the same manner

itunes does not suite my needs, it obviously suits yours, then whats the problem, it does'nt make either one of us less or more stupid than the other which is originally what your first post implied.

 

[Sparky191]

Can I have your iPod if you don't like it?

 

[BoomAM]

Look end of the day mate all I was saying when I first made a post on here was that I did,unt like itunes, and then you made a post that assumed I or the people before me are stupid...

Its called sarcasm. You got offended and sparked by sarcasm. Thats what i find most amusing.

and itunes does what I or the people before me were complaining about when still the fact of the matter is still does not sort music out in a TRUE DRAG AND DROP sense, like quoted on the many mp3 players boxes/manuals/net reviews etc, sorry but you can check this for your self.

I dont have to check anything for myself.
Your basically said that with iTunes there was no drag/drop, when there was, just not in the manner you deem to be drag/drop. But thats neither here nor there now considering that your trying to make yourself look like an innocent victem.

BUT, I came into this thread freindly, non-judgemental and also polite,

Polite!? You've been anything but.
My initial post was tongue in cheek, which you them proceeded to spend every reply post insulting me.
Im not suprised at all at your reaction. Because i know on here that posts in way i put that one can be taken in one of two ways. You took it in the bad way.
Am i bothered that you took it the bad way? Nope. Because for every person that doesnt get the post, theres an equal number of people that do.

it does'nt make either one of us less or more stupid than the other which is originally what your first post implied.

Again, over sensitivity caused you to get insulted by something that wasnt designed to be.

A tip, when you see an opening post like mine, try and read it in a 'different' way before replying. Prehaps you might see the sarcasm and take it tongue in cheek then.

 

[BoomAM]

Can I have your iPod if you don't like it?

And use EphPod with it.

Another tip for iPod owners: EuPod. It removes the EU Volume Restriction.

 

[daz]

I had an ipod back when they were geeky.... before the eu volume restriction and just before there was a windows version.

I think a lot of flash based players will understand a folder/directory structure, and even my car stereo (Blaupunkt) could understand folders on an MP3 CDR.

 

[Things change I've changed]

I dont have to check anything for myself.
Your basically said that with iTunes there was no drag/drop, when there was, just not in the manner you deem to be drag/drop. But thats neither here nor there now considering that your trying to make yourself look like an innocent victem..

I think your find that I am , your obviously the type of person that has to have everything think your own way and won't stop attacking/whinning until the other party concedes, I,ve never bowed down to people like you and I never will sorry mate, you may get your way by stamping your feet on your own turff but not on here unfortunitly.

Polite!? You've been anything but.
My initial post was tongue in cheek, which you them proceeded to spend every reply post insulting me.
Im not suprised at all at your reaction. Because i know on here that posts in way i put that one can be taken in one of two ways. You took it in the bad way.
Am i bothered that you took it the bad way? Nope. Because for every person that doesnt get the post, theres an equal number of people that do.

Anyone can quote people selectively to try and make themselfs look clever, if you would have posted my full comment,

"Yes I admit I,ve been using a similar attitude, BUT, I came into this thread freindly, non-judgemental and also polite, YOU SIR did NOT, that is the issue, without provocation your first post was pure sarcassaom and patronizing, so then for some reason your suprised when someone retaliates in the same manner"

Then you can easly see that I addmited using a similar attitude, BUT, not on my opening post, ONLY after your sarcassaom, the very thing that initiated this arguement, you said to me that "this is a tech forum, people have complaints and that I should get used to it" yet when the shoe is on the other foot its a different matter, you did not just just accept my complaint, as you say this is a tech forum.

Again, over sensitivity caused you to get insulted by something that wasnt designed to be.

A tip, when you see an opening post like mine, try and read it in a 'different' way before replying. Prehaps you might see the sarcasm and take it tongue in cheek then.

If that was the case why did you not just state this in a friendly manner in the first place, people think they can wack a simely on the end of there post and that warrants them protection from anything that they may wish to convey, I'm sorry if I think that these tech forums are designed to enable people to proactively help others with there technical issues ,

Once people just start accepting everyone complaining all the time it turns a forum into breeding ground for vultures that prey on peoples threads who instead of offer freindly advice and banter they criticise and complain just for the sole purpose of inceasing thier post count.