New Build - thought?

[Tetras]

I noticed that PassMark benchmarks show both the 4500 and the 5500 being higher scored than the 12100F? Although, the single thread rating is much higher with the Intel one. Seems odd that he was getting better results, or am I missing something?

AMD Ryzen 5 4500 vs AMD Ryzen 5 5500 vs Intel Core i3-12100F [cpubenchmark.net] by PassMark Software

No, you're right, if you're running heavily multithreaded software that takes awhile to complete the task then the Ryzen CPUs are faster, but the majority of apps and users (including gamers) benefit more from the stronger single thread of the 12100.

 

[ninjag]

No, you're right, if you're running heavily multithreaded software that takes awhile to complete the task then the Ryzen CPUs are faster, but the majority of apps and users (including gamers) benefit more from the stronger single thread of the 12100.

I know Photoshop uses all the threads, so maybe I would be best to stick with AMD?

 

[Craig_d1]

Ah, I didn't notice that about the 215 and the restricted length, cheers. I'm a little reluctant to go used for computer parts, especially for a work machine where I wouldn't like an increased risk of failure and losing my work. Performance wise, so long as it can handle Photoshop and Illustrator smoothly I'll be happy and it's mainly graphic design work (my big edits I do on my gaming rig), perhaps 32GB would be a better call just to be safe, although I could always upgrade later?

with am4 you can get 2x8 and add2x8 lter as long as you match the ram...always puts a little more strain on the memory controller, but nothing like ddr5. As you're going for a work build though, I'd just get a matched pair of 16gb (32gb total), rather than save £20 and maybe run into compatability issues down the line by expanding existing

 

[Tetras]

I know Photoshop uses all the threads, so maybe I would be best to stick with AMD?

Photoshop historically has been primarily single-thread dominant and Intel usually does well in benchmarks. In the GN video I linked you, the 12100 beats the 5500, but it loses in Adobe Premier. If your workload is hammering the CPU for long periods at maximum load, then the 5500 is better, but that's usually pretty rare with 2D work.

 

[ninjag]

Thanks all, I'm going to sign off for tonight and chill before looking at all this tomorrow.

 

[ninjag]

I've spent a little time looking over things and here's where I'm at:

My basket at OcUK:

• 1 x Lian Li Lancool 216 RGB Mid-tower PC case - Black (SKU: CA-7B8-LL) = £109.99
• 1 x AMD Ryzen 5 7600 Six Core 5.10GHz (Socket AM5) Processor - Retail (SKU: CP-3DW-AM) = £182.99
• 1 x TeamGroup Delta RGB 32GB (2X16GB) DDR5 PC5-44800C30 6000MHz Dual Channel Kit - Black (FF3D532G6000HC30DC01) (SKU: MY-0B8-TG) = £109.99
• 1 x MSI Pro B650M-A WIFI (Socket AM5) DDR5 Micro-ATX Motherboard (SKU: MB-378-MS) = £160.00
• 1 x Corsair RMe Series RM850e Fully Modular Low-Noise ATX Power Supply v2 (CP-9020263-UK) (SKU: CA-27N-CS) = £124.99
• 1 x AMD Ryzen 5 4500 Six Core 4.1GHz (Socket AM4) Processor - Retail (SKU: CP-3D4-AM) = £74.99
• 1 x MSI MPG B550 Gaming Plus (AMD AM4) B550 ATX Motherboard (SKU: MB-35A-MS) = £107.49
• 1 x Team Group Vulcan Z T-Force 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-25600C16 3200MHz Dual Channel Kit - Grey (SKU: MY-0AK-TG) = £35.99

Total: £914.42 (includes delivery: £7.99)​

I've generally stuck to components recommended on here, but I've changed the MB to an MSI one as it's on a sale and I like MSI, it's just a preference thing really. Unless there is something terrible about it that should put me back to the ASUS one?

After doing some tests on my current work computer I never get near 16GB, so I'm happy to stick to that and if necessary it's easy enough to just pop another pair of 8GB sticks in later on.

I've not included a graphics card because I'm not sure about Zotac. I know it will be a little more expensive, but I think I will to stick to FE even if it means getting the 4700 instead, but if the 4700 Super comes into stock soon then even better. I'm saving on the SSD thanks to finding that spare one so that helps offset. So, I'm thinking about initially popping the 3060 Ti FE into the new gaming rig, moving the 1660 Super into my old gaming rig being donated to my son (he's only really doing Roblox just now) and I've got some lower end GPU's floating around that I can stick in the new work rig. It only takes a few minutes to swap a graphics card, so no big deal.

Can't believe it's £914 without a graphics card! lol But then again, Nvidia have just split their stock so they will probably keep going up for the next 12 months (estimated 25%) unless something big happens in the market. I wonder if the 4070's will go up or down....


EDIT:

I knew I'd forgotten something....CPU cooler! lol

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/alpenfohn-dolomit-advanced-120mm-argb-cpu-cooler-black-hs-05v-al.html = £34.99

I'm still not dismissing just doing a cheap build for the work PC and getting the 4070/4070 Super. I've got a case I can reuse, possibly even the PSU and the SSD. So that could mean:

[*]1 x AMD Ryzen 5 4500 Six Core 4.1GHz (Socket AM4) Processor - Retail (SKU: CP-3D4-AM) = £74.99
[*]1 x MSI MPG B550 Gaming Plus (AMD AM4) B550 ATX Motherboard (SKU: MB-35A-MS) = £107.49
[*]1 x Team Group Vulcan Z T-Force 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-25600C16 3200MHz Dual Channel Kit - Grey (SKU: MY-0AK-TG) = £35.99

Total: £218.47 (only £182 once the vodka and tonic is recovered) plus the FE card so anywhere between £440 and £482 net, so a maximum of £664. As I understand my 5600X won't bottleneck a 4700, but then there is the problem of the i7-3770k bottlenecking the 3060Ti, but going forward it would be less of an upgrade for him in the future.

 

[Craig_d1]

Justvremember the b650 is an mATX mobo, and the b550 one has no wifi on it. Can't remember if that was you that wanted wifi..sorry on my phone at mo

 

[Gray2233]

I've not included a graphics card because I'm not sure about Zotac.

Zotac are a solid company, with the longest Nvidia warranty of all the vendors and UK based support to boot.

I have a Zotac Twin Edge 4070 and 4070S and both have been flawless, I'd not buy a lesser card simply out of concern about them as a company.

 

[ninjag]

Justvremember the b650 is an mATX mobo, and the b550 one has no wifi on it. Can't remember if that was you that wanted wifi..sorry on my phone at mo

Oh crap, I cant' believe I missed that despite looking out to avoid a micro-ATX. I'm not bothered about WiFi though as I have a dedicated TUF AX5400 for connecting to the Quest 3. Will need to look at MB again.

 

[ninjag]

Zotac are a solid company, with the longest Nvidia warranty of all the vendors and UK based support to boot.

I have a Zotac Twin Edge 4070 and 4070S and both have been flawless, I'd not buy a lesser card simply out of concern about them as a company.

I have no experience with them so thought I'd have a look around online and I kept coming across lots of very poor aftersales reports, although I did also see many comments about them having very good cooling. I suppose you will always see more bad reviews than good by the very nature of people. I suppose if there was a problem my contract is with OC and not Zotac anyway.

 

[Gray2233]

I have no experience with them so thought I'd have a look around online and I kept coming across lots of very poor aftersales reports, although I did also see many comments about them having very good cooling. I suppose you will always see more bad reviews than good by the very nature of people. I suppose if there was a problem my contract is with OC and not Zotac anyway.

You're correct in that people absolutely are far more likely to talk about a negative than they are a positive, you also need to remember that the internet is a global thing. When you look at places like Reddit or similar, you're going to see an overwhelming amount of people from North America posting rather than from the UK.

Customer support varies heavily across the globe, it's also worth noting that outside of enthusiast forums like this you'll often see user error described as a company related problem by angry and often clueless people, or worse fanboys for other companies talking nonsense (yes, they do exist unfortunately).

People still buy Asus in droves due to branding, but their customer support has been absolutely dire globally for years, on multiple levels. It can become very messy when looking for good information online for things like tech, damned shame tbh.

 

[ninjag]

You're correct in that people absolutely are far more likely to talk about a negative than they are a positive, you also need to remember that the internet is a global thing. When you look at places like Reddit or similar, you're going to see an overwhelming amount of people from North America posting rather than from the UK.

Customer support varies heavily across the globe, it's also worth noting that outside of enthusiast forums like this you'll often see user error described as a company related problem by angry and often clueless people, or worse fanboys for other companies talking nonsense (yes, they do exist unfortunately).

People still buy Asus in droves due to branding, but their customer support has been absolutely dire globally for years, on multiple levels. It can become very messy when looking for good information online for things like tech, damned shame tbh.

How's the coil whine? I keep coming across this issue across not just Zotac but also others. I'm not sure if FE suffer coil whine, my 3060 Ti FE doesn't seem to have any. Just doing some belt and braces diligence here! lol

 

[Gray2233]

How's the coil whine? I keep coming across this issue across not just Zotac but also others. I'm not sure if FE suffer coil whine, my 3060 Ti FE doesn't seem to have any. Just doing some belt and braces diligence here! lol

Nothing noticeable on my end.

 

[Tetras]

How's the coil whine? I keep coming across this issue across not just Zotac but also others. I'm not sure if FE suffer coil whine, my 3060 Ti FE doesn't seem to have any. Just doing some belt and braces diligence here! lol

Take with a large pinch of salt, but from what I can recall reading posts on the forum, so called "lower-tier" manufacturers like Zotac usually have less coil whine than higher-end models from higher-tier brands, but their fan noise may be higher. The FE is generally good on coil whine and from what I'm aware, nvidia do accept an RMA for coil whine if you get a particularly bad one.

 

[ninjag]

Take with a large pinch of salt, but from what I can recall reading posts on the forum, so called "lower-tier" manufacturers like Zotac usually have less coil whine than higher-end models from higher-tier brands, but their fan noise may be higher. The FE is generally good on coil whine and from what I'm aware, nvidia do accept an RMA for coil whine if you get a particularly bad one.

Thanks. I did notice posts about the fan noise, something about the fan profiles being baked into BIOS, so can't go below 30% except to fully off or something, but is that the same on other makes? I'm perhaps nit picking now, but when it's £550+ just for a card I really want to get this right first time!

Current build is now this, excluding card. Back to the originally suggested MB, as it does seem the best for features vs value.

My basket at OcUK:

• 1 x Lian Li Lancool 216 RGB Mid-tower PC case - Black (SKU: CA-7B8-LL) = £109.99
• 1 x AMD Ryzen 5 7600 Six Core 5.10GHz (Socket AM5) Processor - Retail (SKU: CP-3DW-AM) = £182.99
• 1 x TeamGroup Delta RGB 32GB (2X16GB) DDR5 PC5-44800C30 6000MHz Dual Channel Kit - Black (FF3D532G6000HC30DC01) (SKU: MY-0B8-TG) = £109.99
• 1 x Corsair RMe Series RM850e Fully Modular Low-Noise ATX Power Supply v2 (CP-9020263-UK) (SKU: CA-27N-CS) = £124.99
• 1 x AMD Ryzen 5 4500 Six Core 4.1GHz (Socket AM4) Processor - Retail (SKU: CP-3D4-AM) = £74.99
• 1 x MSI MPG B550 Gaming Plus (AMD AM4) B550 ATX Motherboard (SKU: MB-35A-MS) = £107.50
• 1 x Team Group Vulcan Z T-Force 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-25600C16 3200MHz Dual Channel Kit - Grey (SKU: MY-0AK-TG) = £35.99
• 1 x Asus TUF Gaming B650-Plus WIFI (Socket AM5) DDR5 ATX Motherboard (SKU: MB-6K0-AS) = £169.99
• 1 x Alpenfohn Dolomit Advanced 120mm ARGB CPU Cooler - Black (SKU: HS-05V-AL) = £34.99

Total: £959.41 (includes delivery: £7.99)​

 

[ninjag]

Ok, so this is becoming a little more urgent lol......

 

[Craig_d1]

Ok, so this is becoming a little more urgent lol......

which pc is that

 

[ninjag]

That's the work one. It's been doing that sporadically for a while now, I've updated GPU drivers, checked cables etc. I don't want to change any hardware because the processor is so bad it's not worth throwing any money at it. There's also a strange noise emitting from it, I suspect CPU fan but I hate the thing so don't want to waste time investigating it.

 

[Tetras]

I'm perhaps nit picking now, but when it's £550+ just for a card I really want to get this right first time!

Yeah, unfortunately even though the prices have increased A LOT, the general build quality of these cards doesn't reflect their price, so £500 still just gets you a midrange card and that can easily be a whiner with noisy fans. That said, they're pretty efficient cards and the average cooler is overbuilt, so unless you're a noise aficionado you could pick anything off the shelf and it probably would be alright, unless you get one of those WHWWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEE cards that pop up now and again. The bigger and more expensive cards (like a 4090) ironically seem more prone to being intolerable whiners than the small ones.

 

[ninjag]

Yeah, unfortunately even though the prices have increased A LOT, the general build quality of these cards doesn't reflect their price, so £500 still just gets you a midrange card and that can easily be a whiner with noisy fans. That said, they're pretty efficient cards and the average cooler is overbuilt, so unless you're a noise aficionado you could pick anything off the shelf and it probably would be alright, unless you get one of those WHWWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEE cards that pop up now and again. The bigger and more expensive cards (like a 4090) ironically seem more prone to being intolerable whiners than the small ones.

I do seem to zone in on noises, in particular I would tune into that idle state almost inaudible high pitched sound that my old 3770k used to emit! lol But on the flip side, I almost always use headphones when on the computer and I doubt I'll hear any whine when on the VR. I do use speakers with games like Manor Lords though, where directional doesn't matter.

Been working the grey matter a little more:

1. New gaming rig build for me (I've still to decide on the graphics card)
2. Use my current gaming rig for work because it has almost all of the software already installed, email accounts in place etc, but swap the 3060 Ti FE out with my son's 1660 Super
3. Upgrade my son's rig with the AM4 board and pop a Ryzen 5 5500 processor in which is only a touch more expensive than the 4500 but offers significantly better performance. I think I can reuse his RAM in the AM4 board, which helps offset the slight processor cost increase.

He's not running very much software, so if I do need to do a full reinstall it shouldn't be much to worry about, so the only big software part is the new gaming rig, which will always be the case.

Annoyingly, the Liam-Li 216 is out of stock now at OC.

New basket for dissection:

My basket at OcUK:

• 1 x Lian Li Lancool 216 RGB Mid-tower PC case - Black (SKU: CA-7B8-LL) = £109.99
• 1 x Asus TUF Gaming B650-Plus WIFI (Socket AM5) DDR5 ATX Motherboard (SKU: MB-6K0-AS) = £169.99
• 1 x AMD Ryzen 5 7600 Six Core 5.10GHz (Socket AM5) Processor - Retail (SKU: CP-3DW-AM) = £182.99
• 1 x Alpenfohn Dolomit Advanced 120mm ARGB CPU Cooler - Black (SKU: HS-05V-AL) = £34.99
• 1 x TeamGroup Delta RGB 32GB (2X16GB) DDR5 PC5-44800C30 6000MHz Dual Channel Kit - Black (FF3D532G6000HC30DC01) (SKU: MY-0B8-TG) = £109.99
• 1 x Corsair RMe Series RM850e Fully Modular Low-Noise ATX Power Supply v2 (CP-9020263-UK) (SKU: CA-27N-CS) = £124.99
• 1 x AMD Ryzen 5 5500 Six Core 4.2GHz (Socket AM4) Processor - Retail (SKU: CP-3D3-AM) = £89.99
• 1 x MSI MPG B550 Gaming Plus (AMD AM4) B550 ATX Motherboard (SKU: MB-35A-MS) = £107.50

Total: £938.42 (includes delivery: £7.99)​