New cabinet

PlacidCasual · 14 Jul 2016 at 12:00

Secret_Window said:
So do you think Osborne, Hunt, Gove, and Morgan were all doing a great job ?

In all honesty I can say I think apart from his role as Chief Whip, Michael Gove has been an excellent Minister and made a profound beneficial improvement to the departments he has worked in. I do not think the loudness of his detractors is in proportion or related to his success. Gove's problems have been more perceptual than actual in my opinion. A- nearly but not quite.

Osborne has had his fair share of **** ups but has by and large been a reasonable Chancellor. He has done much of what needed doing and has not imposed the level of cuts that the Loyal Opposition would have you believe.
C+ could do better.

Morgan, dunno seemed anodyne.

Mr Jack · 14 Jul 2016 at 12:01

Liz Truss for justice. Just relieved it didn't go back to Grayling.

PlacidCasual · 14 Jul 2016 at 12:01

cyber69 said:
Any news on Anna Soubry yet?

Soubry and Rudd have been awful in everything I've seen in the last few months. They must run good departments because I'm not seeing it from the outside.

Secret_Window · 14 Jul 2016 at 12:04

wildman said:
that is immaterial, they were doing the job against the manifesto on which they were voted in on.

No it isn't. They were doing a terrible job with what was proposed in the manifesto. Part of the reason why there was a lot of people voting Brexit was in protest of people's anger at the establishment - both in UK government and EU - and May is addressing that.

wildman · 14 Jul 2016 at 12:12

Secret_Window said:
No it isn't. They were doing a terrible job with what was proposed in the manifesto. Part of the reason why there was a lot of people voting Brexit was in protest of people's anger at the establishment - both in UK government and EU - and May is addressing that.

it is immaterial because in a democarcy you can't just decide as a leader to massively change track after you have been voted in on a specific set of policies. Small tweaks go unnoticed but a wholesale change in direction needs to be democratically mandated.

The referendum was about the EU not about changing government or changing domestic policy, thus if the new leader want to make a massive change in direction for domestic policy it needs mandating otherwise we are allowing ourselves to be subjected to a dictatorship / unelected / unmandated changes, which is exactly why people wanted out of the EU in the first place.

Pudney · 14 Jul 2016 at 12:12

Secret_Window said:
So do you think Osborne, Hunt, Gove, and Morgan were all doing a great job ?

Osborne was doing a good job based on the policies that the Conservatives wanted to pursue. He was consistent, clear and had set out a road map for the entire term of the parliament.

Whether the direction he wanted to go is correct is a different matter, but he did very well making sure businesess and professionals understood where he was taking them.

Secret_Window · 14 Jul 2016 at 12:14

wildman said:
it is immaterial because in a democarcy you can't just decide as a leader to massively change track after you have been voted in on a specific set of policies. Small tweaks go unnoticed but a wholesale change in direction needs to be democratically mandated.

The referendum was about the EU not about changing government or changing domestic policy, thus if the new leader want to make a massive change in direction for domestic policy it needs mandating otherwise we are allowing ourselves to be subjected to a dictatorship / unelected / unmandated changes, which is exactly why people wanted out of the EU in the first place.

We do not yet know what change of policies there is going to be.

Semple · 14 Jul 2016 at 12:21

Yesss i'm glad that weasel Gove is out! He always came across as very untrustworthy to me.

Pudney said:
Osborne was doing a good job based on the policies that the Conservatives wanted to pursue. He was consistent, clear and had set out a road map for the entire term of the parliament.

Whether the direction he wanted to go is correct is a different matter, but he did very well making sure businesess and professionals understood where he was taking them.

I agree, personally i think he's been a good chancellor. You tend to find that those who disagreed with him, or didn't like him for that matter were likely affected badly by his policies. I think these people will be in for a shock when they realise that Hammond's policies aren't going to be much different, and they'll be just as affected.

wildman · 14 Jul 2016 at 12:22

Secret_Window said:
We do not yet know what change of policies there is going to be.

stop being so naive. In order to get us out of the EU there are going to have to be massive policy changes. The fact the the entire economic plan up to 2020 has effectively been thrown in the bin is a major indicator and in the eyes of many already enough to warrant an election.

benhaha85 · 14 Jul 2016 at 12:29

From a purely professional point of view it's a shame that Gove has gone as Justice secretary, he was very forward looking and it was helping our company out no ends. Hopefully truss isn't another Grayling, he was an awful Justice secretary.

[TW]Fox · 14 Jul 2016 at 12:29

wildman said:
it is immaterial because in a democarcy you can't just decide as a leader to massively change track after you have been voted in on a specific set of policies.

You can when ever so slightly more than half of those who bothered to show up to an election voted to fundamentally change the face of the country for ever. Infact it's more than just 'can', it's 'must'.

scorza · 14 Jul 2016 at 12:31

Some doubt about Jeremy Hunt's status at present - earlier in the day it was reported he'd be sacked from government, then merely moved from health, now the rumours are that he's staying at Health. Not good

Semple · 14 Jul 2016 at 12:32

wildman said:
stop being so naive. In order to get us out of the EU there are going to have to be massive policy changes. The fact the the entire economic plan up to 2020 has effectively been thrown in the bin is a major indicator and in the eyes of many already enough to warrant an election.

I think an immediate election would be the worst thing for this country.

Frankly with the labour party in complete shambles, they couldn't be trusted to form a government.

UKIP/Lib-dems are unlikely to get a majority backing.

Secret_Window · 14 Jul 2016 at 12:33

wildman said:
stop being so naive. In order to get us out of the EU there are going to have to be massive policy changes. The fact the the entire economic plan up to 2020 has effectively been thrown in the bin is a major indicator and in the eyes of many already enough to warrant an election.

How is it being naive merely waiting to see what happens? We don't even know what the changes there are going to be policy wise. How can you call them out for a general election when you don't even know what the proposals are?

I agree partly in what you are saying. But right now what options do we have? Do you really think Labour is electable? We need some stability and calm.

Gilly · 14 Jul 2016 at 12:35

Right now is the worst possible time for an election. We have no viable opposition, a brand new leadership, a third party that was expected to die off, a far right one-trick-pony party that has no reason for being any more and the greens.

Voter turnout would be tiny.

[TW]Fox;29780596 said:
You can when ever so slightly more than half of those who bothered to show up to an election voted to fundamentally change the face of the country for ever. Infact it's more than just 'can', it's 'must'.

I'd say should rather than must, but I do agree with the sentiment of your post. The reason I would say should rather than must is that it depends what outcome those actions would most likely result in. If it's the worst possible outcome, then what should happen is a different approach that still carries as much of the public feeling as possible.

wildman · 14 Jul 2016 at 12:37

Secret_Window said:
How is it being naive merely waiting to see what happens? We don't even know what the changes there are going to be policy wise. How can you call them out for a general election when you don't even know what the proposals are?

I agree partly in what you are saying. But right now what options do we have? Do you really think Labour is electable? We need some stability and calm.

Stability and calm at the cost of our democracy is a poor trade off. Things are not going to be stable or calm for a good many years and people seem overly eager to simply allow themselves to be dictated to by what could possibly transpire to be a mandateless leader.

This is exactly what drove people to vote leave the EU, yet those very same people seem happy to see that very same model replicated domestically ?

Uther · 14 Jul 2016 at 12:37

scorza said:
Some doubt about Jeremy Hunt's status at present - earlier in the day it was reported he'd be sacked from government, then merely moved from health, now the rumours are that he's staying at Health. Not good

Semple · 14 Jul 2016 at 12:42

wildman said:
Stability and calm at the cost of our democracy is a poor trade off. Things are not going to be stable or calm for a good many years and people seem overly eager to simply allow themselves to be dictated to by what could possibly transpire to be a mandateless leader.

This is exactly what drove people to vote leave the EU, yet those very same people seem happy to see that very same model replicated domestically ?

So it's quite clear from your posts that you're very much anti-Tory. Would you rather have a PM where the majority of the MP's in his party don't like or agree with his views?

wildman · 14 Jul 2016 at 12:44

I am very much Tory, but do not like the usurping of our democracy in such a way that could potentially unfold here

Uther · 14 Jul 2016 at 12:45

Hunt staying on as health secretary