new dog

Rainmaker · 17 May 2009 at 15:12

Teki187 said:
The only thing i have against a RAW diet, is getting the combination right so your not under/over feeding and missing out on certain nutrients. Other things like it being "expensive" and messy.

Pet food manufacturers love to perpetuate such myths and fears (aka FUD). Do you buy only pellets for the children in your family, lest you miss out important nutrients and over/under feed? LOL Nutrition doesn't work like that, a first year student could tell you so.

Raw is not expensive. A 'premium' sack of crap-in-a-bag is about £35 or more. Raw feeding costs as little as £3 to £5 a month for an average sized dog. Mess? LOL I feed my dogs in their crate and/or kennel and/or on the ground outside. They chew and tear up their carcass/raw meaty bones and eat it. Then they're finished. Hardly messy.

Teki187 · 17 May 2009 at 15:12

Rainmaker said:
Balderdash. Canned (wet) food is mushed up and reformed grain byproducts made to look like meat. Dry food itself doesn't dry out the coat and skin, the toxic nature of it and the unsuitability for a carnivore causes the system to break down. This produces varying effects from periodontal disease, auto-immune disease, 'dandruff', 'dog breath', arthritis, diabetes, cancer and early death. Read up!

Not all wet food is like that.

I know for a fact that the wet food i use is made up of at least 60% meat, the other is veg, ground bone and oils.

The dry food again is made from 70% meat, digestive cereals and oil.

Not all foods like this are bad, just the pedigree, bakers etc are.

KaHn · 17 May 2009 at 15:15

Teki187 said:
The only thing i have against a RAW diet, is getting the combination right so your not under/over feeding and missing out on certain nutrients. Other things like it being "expensive" and messy.

Expensive? I feed Max a raw diet and it costs me around £1/day of feed (1.5kgs) which include fresh chicken, lamb,beef,turkey,liver,heart,tripe.

I do include suppliements for vits/minerals if I am not feeding him green tripe with every meal.

The messy part doesn't bother me, just get my hands in and wash them afterwards.

I have never seen my dog happier than when he's sat in the sun eating a lap of lamb or neck end chop, he did strugle with half the pigs head but i put that down to his age.

KaHn

Teki187 · 17 May 2009 at 15:15

Rainmaker said:
Pet food manufacturers love to perpetuate such myths and fears (aka FUD). Do you buy only pellets for the children in your family, lest you miss out important nutrients and over/under feed? LOL Nutrition doesn't work like that, a first year student could tell you so.

I've actually done a lot of research into RAW diets and a lot of well respected working trial labrador breeders have said RAW for a new owner is very difficult to get right.

Raw is not expensive. A 'premium' sack of crap-in-a-bag is about £35 or more. Raw feeding costs as little as £3 to £5 a month for an average sized dog. Mess? LOL I feed my dogs in their crate and/or kennel and/or on the ground outside. They chew and tear up their carcass/raw meaty bones and eat it. Then they're finished. Hardly messy.

1 whole chicken costs £3, unless you break that up into insane portions, it costs far more then that a month.

Rainmaker · 17 May 2009 at 15:16

Teki187 said:
Not all wet food is like that.

I know for a fact that the wet food i use is made up of at least 60% meat, the other is veg, ground bone and oils.

The dry food again is made from 70% meat, digestive cereals and oil.

Not all foods like this are bad, just the pedigree, bakers etc are.

Have you seen what qualifies as 'meat' in pet food? Even so the very nature of the food and its physical and biochemical form is unsuited to a carnivore. Processed (junk) pet food causes ill health. Fact.

A dog is designed to eat carcasses. Not cooked grains, not veggies, not ground up bones and byproducts. Certainly nothing boiled to sludge and reformed into pellets and sprayed with grease. I honestly suggest you read up and learn some (not a dig, I'm trying to be helpful - you and your dog will be glad you did!).

Try "Raw Meaty Bones: Promote Health" by Dr Tom Lonsdale. >300 pages of peer reviewed, fully referenced literature on why you should feed your pet carnivore on its true diet. It also goes into great detail as to just how sick you're making your dogs by feeding them the **** peddled by pet food companies. He used to have the entire thing as an ebook free on his site (HERE) but I've not checked in a while.

Rainmaker · 17 May 2009 at 15:18

Teki187 said:
I've actually done a lot of research into RAW diets and a lot of well respected working trial labrador breeders have said RAW for a new owner is very difficult to get right.

1 whole chicken costs £3, unless you break that up into insane portions, it costs far more then that a month.

Again you're thinking how the big corps WANT you to think (crap, I sound like Magick :eek:

)... Who said anything about whole chickens in Tesco? Source your whole chicken frames (with breasts removed for human consumption) from poultry wholesalers. 20kg for £3! Slaughter houses will happily fill your freezer with lamb rib racks, necks, pig trotters, heads, cattle tails etc for free or a donation in the charity box. Use your noggin and look around!

EDIT: Time for walkies with the hounds, BBL.

KaHn · 17 May 2009 at 15:19

Rainmaker said:
Again you're thinking how the big corps WANT you to think (crap, I sound like Magick )... Who said anything about whole chickens in Tesco? Source your whole chicken frames (with breasts removed for human consumption) from poultry wholesalers. 20kg for £3! Slaughter houses will happily fill your freezer with lamb rib racks, necks, pig trotters, heads, cattle tails etc for free or a donation in the charity box. Use your noggin and look around!

EDIT: Time for walkies with the hounds, BBL.

Only problem with RAW feeding is a large enough freezer and sqeemish GF's (mine wont let me feed Max/Holly in the house)

KaHn

Rainmaker · 17 May 2009 at 15:21

KaHn said:
Only problem with RAW feeding is a large enough freezer and sqeemish GF's (mine wont let me feed Max/Holly in the house)

KaHn

The money you save in vet bills and bags of kibble inside six months pays for a 6ft chest freezer no worries!

As for the gf, trade her in. Mine skins the rabbits for the dogs without batting an eyelid lol Feeding outside is a small price to pay anyway, so meh.

Glad to see another raw feeder on here also btw. Now I really do have to go before it chucks it down. Dogs await lol

Teki187 · 17 May 2009 at 15:24

Rainmaker said:
Have you seen what qualifies as 'meat' in pet food? Even so the very nature of the food and its physical and biochemical form is unsuited to a carnivore. Processed (junk) pet food causes ill health. Fact.

Yes, if you ask Natures Harvest, they provide you with photo and video's of how they create there dog food, also you can go on tours.

Chicken from field > killed > blended > steamed > packaged > dog

I know for a fact that what i currently feed my dog is the very best of pre prepared food.

A dog is designed to eat carcasses. Not cooked grains, not veggies, not ground up bones and byproducts. Certainly nothing boiled to sludge and reformed into pellets and sprayed with grease. I honestly suggest you read up and learn some (not a dig, I'm trying to be helpful - you and your dog will be glad you did!).

I have no issues with giving my dog boney meat, he sometimes has lamb chops, pork chops, marrow bones and so on. But i personally am not confident enough to go to a RAW diet, I'd love to, but I'm not ready yet. I wouldnt even know where to start.

Try "Raw Meaty Bones: Promote Health" by Dr Tom Lonsdale. >300 pages of peer reviewed, fully referenced literature on why you should feed your pet carnivore on its true diet. It also goes into great detail as to just how sick you're making your dogs by feeding them the **** peddled by pet food companies. He used to have the entire thing as an ebook free on his site (HERE) but I've not checked in a while.

Reading it now.

Teki187 · 17 May 2009 at 15:25

Rainmaker said:
Again you're thinking how the big corps WANT you to think (crap, I sound like Magick )... Who said anything about whole chickens in Tesco? Source your whole chicken frames (with breasts removed for human consumption) from poultry wholesalers. 20kg for £3! Slaughter houses will happily fill your freezer with lamb rib racks, necks, pig trotters, heads, cattle tails etc for free or a donation in the charity box. Use your noggin and look around!

EDIT: Time for walkies with the hounds, BBL.

So if the chicken have had the breasts removed, what quality meat is left?

KaHn · 17 May 2009 at 15:39

Teki187 said:
So if the chicken have had the breasts removed, what quality meat is left?

Everything except the brest, the quality is still the same, its just not the stuff which is required by the masses.

KaHn

KaHn · 17 May 2009 at 16:16

This is Max and Hollys saturday or sunday treat.

Lap of Lamb.

KaHn

knip · 17 May 2009 at 16:26

Teki187 said:
Then there must be something wrong with your dog.

My Labrador is awesome! Full of energy, always ready to go, extremely alert, very intelligent and very good looking.

Chances are you either got yours from bad stock or show bred.

Same as mine, he's 7 and he still acts like a puppy. Never still for long!

s-man · 17 May 2009 at 17:44

Good to see people recommending a proper diet for their dogs here...pleasantly surprised with all the BARF chat! For what its worth we got a dog 5 months ago and the Mrs did all the reading about raw meaty bones and whatnot (I left her to it lol) and even though I can understand people not wanting to 'get it wrong' and being worried about striking the right balance once you start to get to know your dog it comes naturally. I'm not a highly knowledgable dog owner so I don't have years of experience to draw on but I have to say our dog is one very healthy, energetic dood

and he really seems content on a barf diet. We've just made sure we have kelp, liver etc and drop that in from time to time...oh and the other half mixes up a batch of veggie mix from time to time...oh and raw eggs as well!

Don't get me wrong it can be nerve racking and some people you speak to think you're nuts giving a dog chicken carcass, legs, thighs etc but most dogs can handle this stuff from a very early age and the soundtrack to dinner is 'cracking' lol.

Interesting info about sourcing carcasses etc btw ...we're still buying lamb, chicken from the supermarket and it is obviously more costly so I'll be looking into these suggestions that have been made.

Oh yeh...as for the original question...labrador lol

KaHn · 17 May 2009 at 18:07

s-man where are you located in the UK? I use a company called www.daf-petfood.co.uk and they are great.

KaHn

~J~ · 17 May 2009 at 18:17

s-man said:
Good to see people recommending a proper diet for their dogs here...pleasantly surprised with all the BARF chat!

To be honest, before I got my dog I honestly though this BARF was big heads sprouting off stuff, do-gooders, blah blah blah.

But, on recommendation by a few others (not on this forum I hasten to add), I introduced a 'kinda' BARF diet and didn't think anything of it.

One week I was off work, didn't manage to get into town to the butchers and just ordered normal dog food with a "that'll have to do attitude".

NEVER again!

Difference in my dog was visible the next day. She was hyper, 'stools' were messy and full of rubbish, a little too much over the top.

Switched her back to the BARF almost the next day and was back to normal.

Her usual daily diet is now Burns for breakfast, fruit and honey for lunch (usually an apple or a banana with a little drizzle of honey) and dinner is usually fresh meat with vegetables (carrots, potatoes) and a sprinkle of burns.

Don't wanna appear a preacher, but the BARF is definately something I'd recommend to any dog owner.

Rainmaker · 17 May 2009 at 18:42

KaHn, that's great buddy but I'd not cut it up like that. Feed it WHOLE! It's not just the content of food but the consistency that's VITALLY important for health. I can explain (in depth) about how lack of extended ripping, chewing, tearing and gnawing away at a whole piece of carcass leads to periodontal disease, heart and liver disease etc... But since you're already willing to feed raw, I daresay just telling you that "Bigger is better, honest" will be enough for you to give it a go.

~J~ that's geat mate, but honestly? Dump everything in that extensive list bar large bony pieces of dead animal and its derivatives. Dogs have zero use for (can't digest, make themselves ill trying to digest etc) everything else in that list. Veggies, honey, fruit, kibble... bad!

Raw meaty bones for the winrar. \o/

EDIT: I too am pleasantly surprised at the reactions here. Considering this is OcUK I was expecting a mahoosive back-and-forth for many man-sized pages about the science, literature, reasons, blah blah... LOL Good on you (Y)

Django x2 · 17 May 2009 at 18:49

People always forget Boxers. Boxers R THE WIN!

Very, very good with children too.

Rainmaker · 17 May 2009 at 18:51

Not the best pics I have, but in a pinch:

In this case, a whole rabbit, whole chicken quarters for the terrier puppy, and a full pig's leg (including skin) for the lurcher pup. Big whole pieces, people

Basically if it's bigger than the dog's head, you're laughing. Anything much smaller, marrow bones, sawn/cut bones, knuckle bones = BAD.

Look at those for glossy coats and rippling muscles. On a PUP! These dogs literally never saw commercial crap in a bag in their LIVES. Raw from weaning, from raw fed parents.

Raikiri · 17 May 2009 at 18:52

Bigger than their head? I'd have to give my dog half a pig :/