I've got to agree with An Exception, Nikon have missed a trick here. If this was a Canon everyone would be slamming it for being "crippled". Both Sony and Nikon could've taken my money, but both have just missed the mark. I'll just soldier on with the old 1Ds2 for now. I do fancy a 5D3 but bizarre as it sounds I can't face parting with the 1Ds2!
New Nikon digital FM2 (small bodied FX) on the way
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Probably someone should be fired but that doesn't stop it being true. Nikon make horrible decisions all the time. The shutter undoubtedly does 1/8000th (all the sensor stuff is taken straight from the D4). The thought of adding a 1/8000th position probably meant a different setting would need removing or a smaller font.
According to your logic since a smartphone takes photos we don'tneed cameras. Ironicly that is what most people do and they are happy with the compromise.
And no, I don't count mass produced electronics as art. My lg TV is not art, my phone is not art, and I haven't seen my toaster in an exhibition. Electronic tools can be attractive, but that is not art.
Caporegime
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Personally I think everything has an effect on everything. I think there is something to be said about creating art from a work of art, and the inspiration that brings.
Canikon are performers, they get the job done. They are however big and bulky and dull as dishwater, but while they still outperform there will be a place for them.
Some mirrorless camera's are works of art that you WANT to pick up. They can't go toe to toe with 35mm DSLR's yet for one reason or another, but they are training hard and improving fast. Soon they will be a match for DSLR's which they already are in some applications.
I walked into a camera shop a while ago to buy a 3rd D800E. I did something I have never done before. I said to the assistant, I have no intention of buying it but can you get that fuji out of the display so I can have a looksee. That is something I would never even think to do if it was a dslr.
Fuji just know how to make beautiful cameras. Makes me want to pick one up and take beautiful pictures.
I think Zach explains it well.
http://zackarias.com/for-photographers/gear-gadgets/fuji-x100s-review-a-camera-walks-into-a-bar/
Done the whole walk into a store to ask to see the Fuji things 3 years ago. It was an older model, forgot the name but it retails at £1k. My brother in law has one and I got to play with it too.
But you know what, they are no doubt a work of art and buying one because you like it for the design, that's fine, but buy it knowing you are not getting the best for your money in terms of what comes out of it.
Photography for me is about the pictures, I share my pictures, I don't share my camera, I am not a collector of cameras. That's what is more important to me, by a long shot.
Consumers will buy lots of compacts.
Professionals will buy DSLR.
Consumers who think they are getting DSLR performance in a smaller body get mirrorless.
People who has more money than sense buy a retro looking mirrorless costing £3,000.
As for can a camera be a piece of art? Yes of course it can, a piece of paper can be a piece of art, anything that is designed is a piece of art. It might be a crap piece of art but art nevertheless. The only difference is desirability, exclusivity, price, heritage and name.
People buy mechanical watches costing £10,000 and thinks its a work of art. Funny that 50 years ago it wasn't seen that way, not until Quartz came along and got cheap, as all electronics do, so SWATCH (Swiss watch maker) had to market their more expensive, desirable watches as "works of art". Before Quartz, a watch is a watch, like a frying pan is a frying pan, something you use to tell time, just as something you use to fry an egg, then all of the sudden it was seen as more upmarket, like why would you spend more money on something that does it less good? Because it is prettier than that Casio and because we tell you so.
So art is merely a perception, especially when it comes to a mass produced item. There is nothing unique about most of these £10,000 watch. There is no precious metal or gems, most of it are stainless steel or leather, some even have rubber straps, the glass are the same glass that can be found in a £300 watch, it will not keep better time as a £10 Casio Quartz. People buy it for the design, the heritage of the name behind that company. They certainly don't buy it for the time keeping aspect of it.
Anyway, can a nice retro looking Nikon be a piece of art?
Sure.
Will it be remembered like a Picasso?
Not a chance.
It can however giver the owner joy to hold something that is like it came out of the 70's with modern technology, I guess we call that novelty.
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It'll have a market as there are a group of photographers who crave the tactile feel of controls and often even manual focus, to really make every shot a challenge and joy to take. With a top end professional camera such as a 1Dx, a user won't think twice about jumping through the 80 odd shots they just took in around 5 seconds, when 1 is all they wanted in the first place.
There are a lot of people who still shoot film, not just for the unpredictability of the results, but for the tactile feel of most of the bodies. This is why the fuji x range has been so successful and has caused many DSLR owners who shoot for fun, not business, to jump ship.
There are a lot of people who still shoot film, not just for the unpredictability of the results, but for the tactile feel of most of the bodies. This is why the fuji x range has been so successful and has caused many DSLR owners who shoot for fun, not business, to jump ship.
Not many have jumped though, MILC sales have dropped more than DSLR sales. FF MILC might make a difference but Sony really need the lens line up, the A7 AF doesn't look to be that great either. The rumoured FF Fuji X200 is the next camera that may perk my interest.
Soldato
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That is true yesterday/today. However looking forward, that won't be the case in a few years except possibly for a few niche genres.
You are beginning to see it already. Some high profile pro's are downsizing their DSLR's. I know a few wedding tog's that have now switched to Fuji. Once Auto Focus meets/beats that of a DSLR, and Fuji have a full frame system with fast primes, then mostly it's game over for DSLR's.
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If or more precisely When mirrorless meets/beats DSLR's all around performance. This will be when Pro's jump ship on-mass.
And then slowly but surely, where the pro's go, Joe will follow.
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At the moment MILC = Consumer. DSLR = Pro (or serious enthusiast)
Pro's will keep upgrading because they can 'justify' the expense. It's easier to explain to GF why you need X camera, if X camera put's bread on the table. GF isn't to know she's being fed BS.
For a consumer it's a bit harder to justify blowing wads of cash, "because I really want it" won't sound like a plausible need.
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Well, time will tell if you are right.
No point debating about guess work, it is a waste of time.
Quality MILC systems aren't cheap though. So far this year for every MILC unit shipped there are 5 DSLR units shipped. MILC sales are even slowing in Japan, they've never really taken off in the US.
I've never seen a MILC being used by anybody in my travels. I probably live a sheltered life though
Soldato
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I've seen quite a few guests at weddings using them. Of course DSLR's greatly outnumber them.
It's also not that uncommon to see guests using the same level of kit as me, except they seem to stick with zooms mainly.
Edit:
Here is a fairly local tog who has downsized his Canon gear and shoot Fuji mirrorless.
http://www.kevinmullinsphotography.co.uk/fuji/
Personally I still consider mirrorless not quite ready to downsize personally, but that day is not that far off. Just waiting to see who shows more promise, Sony or Fuji, or maybe even olympus if they go FF.
It's also not that uncommon to see guests using the same level of kit as me, except they seem to stick with zooms mainly.
Edit:
Here is a fairly local tog who has downsized his Canon gear and shoot Fuji mirrorless.
http://www.kevinmullinsphotography.co.uk/fuji/
Personally I still consider mirrorless not quite ready to downsize personally, but that day is not that far off. Just waiting to see who shows more promise, Sony or Fuji, or maybe even olympus if they go FF.
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And that will happen when Nikon and canon simply remove the mirror from their DSLRs. Nikon has already shown DSLR performance capability in a small, cheap mirror less camera.
The mirrors will all disappear from all DSLRs soon enough, it just makes sense. That won't change the status quo of the canikon duopoly.
Sony has made many bold predictions in the past about being #2 in camera sales, they have failed miserably so far. And now they have a very disorganised and confusing choice of cameras based on different technologies.
Olympus and Panasonic have said similar stories if market sharegrowth but jhavegone in the oopposite direction.
Only to some, bigger , heavier more expensive lenses is a big turn off to others.
Aps-c cams far outsell FF. The general public and most togs simply don't need FF so sales won't increase.
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By the time Sony has a comparable lens line canon and Nikon will have a full line up of mirror less DSLRs.
In fact I doubt Sony ever will catch up. They haven't yet caught up on the alpha mount or nex E mount
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Yeah that's why Canikon are so keen to deliver entry full frame models, obviously no market there at all. It's almost like photography forums aren't full of people making the change from crop to full frame.
I agree with that as even the crop sensors are now having iso performance that negates jumping to FF. FF now is more for people who crave more depth of field, compared to a few years back who wanted better iso performance. The ISO performance on the fuji x100s for example makes my full frame leica m9 look like a toy in comparison. Obviously ISO performance isn't everything as quality of the body, lens choices and whether you like physical dials and buttons over menu's are all current debatable points.
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Actually I think even most APSC buyers at least want a 35mm upgrade path even if it takes them along time to upgrade or they don't upgrade at all. Mirrorless has the potential to mitigate the size weight disadvantage when compared to traditional DSLR's as the A7r has shown. Combined with the 35 2.8 it seems it offers incredible IQ. 2.8 is too slow for my taste though, still if the 55 1.8 has the same kind of IQ then it's a winner compared to Canikon equivalents (although way more expensive).
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I wouldn't say that's really the case with Fuji though, the image quality I can get out of my XP1 is fantastic. Very close to the last gen (5DmkII/D700) FF DSLRs in terms of noise and resolution, especially now that the big RAW converters have figured out the oddball sensor array. It's going to be interesting to see where Fuji takes the high end X series, as imo it's admirably doing the job that Leicas did best back in the film days - many pros shot their wides/35's/50's on an M, while 75mm and up was covered by a Nikon F. When I was covering LFW last season I just had the Fuji + 35/1.4 and a DSLR with a 85mm and it was wonderful to work with, even slotted in a wedding in the middle of it all. Still a few things that need to be fixed though, I'd love to see Fuji add weather sealing, improve the battery life (by a lot, I get only 600 shots out of a charge) and make the AF faster for the XP2.
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