NHS **** you

Is this it:

The drug, called abiraterone acetate and marketed as Zytiga by the pharmaceutical firm Janssen, has now been approved by the European Medicines Agency and goes on sale in Britain on Wednesday.

It's believed the Lockerbie Bomber was on and which kept him alive for much longer than doctors here predicted.

Report here

I would officially write to you're PCT requesting this be looked into again. Then there can be a formal meeting arranged to consider it. Which you can appeal I believe.

Best wishes to your father. :(
 
While it must feel unfair, this trial is there to determine the effectiveness of the drug, and it might turn out that it is less effective than what he's currently on. Trials are used for a good reason, as are QALY measurements. Unfortunately there is neither a omni-cancer busting drug, or an unlimited pot of money to pay for such a drug.

If there isn't any evidence that this trial drug works (or is even safe), then it would be irresponsible to hand it out to everyone that wants it - not all new drugs are better than the old drugs.

If it tuns out that it is effecive (and affordable on a QALY basis), then hopefully you'll be able to get some new decision. Anecdotes about miracle cures abound, but remember that it's the statistical success of a drug that counts, not one-off anecdotes.

Maybe if there was less wasted money (there was some documentary about the massive amount of money wasted on super-premature babies out of which only 1/100 or something go on to live proper lives afterwards) more would be available for expensive treatments for middle aged/early elderly patients where it might do more good, but that kind of thing throws up many difficult decisions on its own. It might be nice to give the NHS unlimited money to spend at the patients whim, but unfortunately healthcare really does cost a lot of money, and this just isn't desirable when you consider how much the general public would be paying out of their taxes for unproven treatments.

It must be hard for you and your family at the moment, but just be thankfull that you were born in an age where there is an NHS, and that you weren't born in Niger.

This probably won't help, but your dad has already lived longer than most people in the world can expect to live, and probably had a much more privileged life than most as well. The NHS does a good job by and large, but difficult decisions need to be made sometimes, and I can understand how frustrated you might feel, but the NHS will be trying to act in everybody's interests.
 
If you have not been to this website already then please do
http://www.macmillan.org.uk
My company and I personally raise money for them as they are our choice of charity.

What is fair is always a endless debate, my personal view is that each of us should have an account with NHS as we pay our NI. You lose money in your account if you don't look after your health e.g. smoker/drinker/drug users etc. Every time you use the NHS you will deduct the cost from your account. This will allow you to understand how much it cost the NHS for everything.

I hope your father will get well soon!
 
Cancer is a horrible thing for family to deal with, money worries should not come into treatment plans.
 
I really don't like Chemotherapy and Radiation treatment, it basically destroys the immune system, leaving the patient more vulnerable to further attacks from cancer, it's caused more problems than it solves.

The therapy that basically boosts the immune system is definitely the treatment to go for, as it signals your t-cells to go after the cancer and destroy it, basically increases detection of cancer so the immune system can deal with it.
 
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Got to love the conservative party.



wrong

its actually the repvios 13 years of Labours mismanagement of the NHS that has got us here today.

Who sepnt 500 million on a wasted revamp of the emergency services comunications system - LAbour

Who spent 12.7 BILLION yes thats BILLION on a completely shambolic and catastropic IT project for the NHS that all the staff said was worthless, did not work correctly and actually put peoples lives at risk - yep you guessed again that was Labour

To those who say its because the greedy pharma companies are extorting money...... do any of you know how the actual R&D cycle works..... for every 10 new potential discoveries that enter phase 1 they are lucky to progress 1 or 2 molecules to the next phases, by this time 100's of millions have already been ploughed in. By the time they get the one molecule to the point where they can start doing proper human trials there is still no guarantee it will make it the the final stages where they can get authorisation from the authorities to market it.

R&D cycles for innovative drugs cost billions. Pharma companies need to recoup those costs in order to be able to start on the next developments. If they couldn't then we would still be treating all ailments with leeches !!!!!

Sympathies to OP though as its not a nice position to be in :(
 
Many many years ago, my uncle was diagnosed with lymphatic leukaemia - his insurance company (for life insurance policy) tried to say that he knew he was ill before taking out the policy several years before his actual diagnosis.
He lived for almost 20 years with all sorts of treatment, much of which made him very very ill indeed, the poor *******. Having the extra stress of some miserable bean counter trying to accuse him of fraud was not right.

The sort of obfuscation your family are experiencing is nothing new OP, I'm sorry to say.
I hope you give them loads of **** and find someone who is willing to represent and fight your corner to the last.
 
What is fair is always a endless debate, my personal view is that each of us should have an account with NHS as we pay our NI. You lose money in your account if you don't look after your health e.g. smoker/drinker/drug users etc. Every time you use the NHS you will deduct the cost from your account. This will allow you to understand how much it cost the NHS for everything.

I hope your father will get well soon!

What happens if you contract a chronic illness at a young age? Blow your NHS budget on silly cancer or save it for your retirement, if you live that long? How would this system be weighted? How about conditions that are hard to diagnose, conditions of the mind for example? Or would it end up like the system we have now, which handles 99% of the populations' needs?

Hope OP and his dad have some good news soon :(
 
The therapy that basically boosts the immune system is definitely the treatment to go for, as it signals your t-cells to go after the cancer and destroy it, basically increases detection of cancer so the immune system can deal with it.
That is far from as simple as you make it sound.

Bad luck, OP. I can understand your frustration with the system, but there are always two sides to a coin. Get in touch with your PCT and see if they have any options you've not been made aware of.
 
As an oncologist I feel the need to comment.

Whilst no doubt there are many failings within the NHS, this isn't necessarily one of them. Thread starter, I make a couple of assumptions throughout this post, simply because there is some information in your particular case that you haven't mentioned. Excuse me if they are wrong.

Firstly, it's important to define what a trial actually is, and what is involved. Essentially a new drug trial is a hugely long process. To give you some idea of the process involved, consider the time scales for the process of getting a new drug certified. It takes on average about 6 years to take a drug from discovery into clinical trials, and then a further average 8 years from the start of clinical trials to being signed off by the relevant medical bodies. That's a total of 14 years. This won't mean a lot to you, but rest assured that clearly the administration of these drugs certainly isn't on a whim.

You then need to consider admission criteria and intended benefit. Even with prostate cancer, there are hundreds of variations in simple but fundamental factors, such as stage and grade of disease, extent of local involvement, co-morbidities, patient age and performance status etc etc. To get on a trial you have to fit within a very very specific target population. This is because they are trialling the intervention for that type of disease and that type only You havn't mentioned the name of the drug or the trial, but even though you know someone else who had the drug on the trial, the characteristics of his disease may be completely different to your fathers. Cancer isn't just cancer. There are thousands and thousands of different varieties and types. Prostate cancer isn't prostate cancer, which isn't prostate cancer, if you will.

Thirdly, you need to consider what a trial actually does. It establishes the effect and safety of a drug. The trial drug isn't administered because the doctors know it works and they want to write a paper on it. They think they might know (clearly they must) but they certainly can't guarantee anything for most drugs. This drug might not have any effect whatsoever on cancer. In fact it may even be dangerous. Just because your acquaintance is in some form of remission means nothing on it's own frankly - often plain old luck is what defines these things. The results across the recruited cohort might give you a result, but you can't proclaim it's success (or equally important lack of damage or failure) because some bloke took it and he got better. I've seen plenty of people who have had no treatment and had some remission, so does that mean that the best treatment for cancer is to do nothing? Of course not.

Ultimately you have to consider the following;

- The people administering the trial don't know for sure if it will work (or prove dangerous)
- If it does work, it only works for the specific tumour type, degree of cell differentation and local/distant involvement.
- The fact that your acquaintance got better means absolutely nothing, unfortunately.

I understand your anger and despair, but please consider that the reason you have been told you would have to pay for the drug is because;

a) It's effect (either beneficial or negative) is not known.
b) It might not even be a trial for your father's disease.

Whilst you consider that they are withholding the drug because of cost, consider that they're withholding it in the knowledge it will do nothing at all, or even that it may cause him damage.

I advise you to seek a second opinion - as you are entitled to do. Please be aware however that you may be at a juncture in which clinician's feel that further treatment is unlikely to offer anything except the trauma of actually having the treatment. If that is the case, do you want to spend all of yours and your families time in terrible stress about getting a treatment which your doctors feel will not do anything? Or would you all rather enjoy what I hope is your many years together.

If you would like to PM me with any questions, please feel free. I specialise in cancer treatment. Please don't PM me with any explicit details of your father's illness, it would be very inappropriate for me to give specific advice.

Please note once more that I know no specifics of your problems, and all information is purely train of thought. There is nothing specific in regards to your fathers care/success of treatment etc.
 
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I really don't like Chemotherapy and Radiation treatment, it basically destroys the immune system, leaving the patient more vulnerable to further attacks from cancer, it's caused more problems than it solves.

The therapy that basically boosts the immune system is definitely the treatment to go for, as it signals your t-cells to go after the cancer and destroy it, basically increases detection of cancer so the immune system can deal with it.

A lot of that is rubbish I'm afraid. Please don't perpetuate these silly myths that frighten and mislead people.

Do some treatment regimens cause lowered immune systems? Yes.

Do all treatment regimens cause lowered immune systems? Not even close.
 
I really don't like Chemotherapy and Radiation treatment, it basically destroys the immune system, leaving the patient more vulnerable to further attacks from cancer, it's caused more problems than it solves.

The therapy that basically boosts the immune system is definitely the treatment to go for, as it signals your t-cells to go after the cancer and destroy it, basically increases detection of cancer so the immune system can deal with it.

And this is why you shouldn't get your medical advise from abvoetopsecret...
 
That is far from as simple as you make it sound.

Bad luck, OP. I can understand your frustration with the system, but there are always two sides to a coin. Get in touch with your PCT and see if they have any options you've not been made aware of.

I didn't say it was simple, but it all starts with the immune system, which mean it can end with the immune system.
 
A lot of that is rubbish I'm afraid. Please don't perpetuate these silly myths that frighten and mislead people.

Do some treatment regimens cause lowered immune systems? Yes.

Do all treatment regimens cause lowered immune systems? Not even close.

It's not rubbish, look it up and you'll see what chemotherapy and radiation therapy does to the immune system, it not only kills cancerous cells, but it also kills white blood cells as well, leaving the patient feeling worse off than before.
 
It's not rubbish, look it up and you'll see what chemotherapy and radiation therapy does to the immune system, it not only kills cancerous cells, but it also kills white blood cells as well, leaving the patient feeling worse off than before.

You may wish to bear in mind that I have a degree in Oncology and work as a cancer treatment specialist.
 
Just found out today that the NHS will not be paying for a second course of treaetment for my dad. He was diagnosed with prostate cancer in 2009. Unfortunately the tumour had passed the stage of being operated on and he began a course of hormone therapy. This kept it at bay for a while until it was decided that he should begin a course of chemotherapy. This ended around 3 months ago now. Since then his PSA levels have risen quite rapidly, quadrupling since the treatment ended which is leading the doctors to believe it is quite aggressive. He was told few weeks ago that he would have to undergo another course of chemo.


They just got back from a well deserved holiday last week and were at the hospital today when he hit them with the bombshell. There was a trial of a drug which was free but that ended a few months ago and it now has to be paid for, 37k a year, the chemo is even more expensive than that. The gutting thing is is that my dads friend who also has prostate cancer got on the trial a few months ago and will be on it for free for the rest of his life. He's responded really well to it and the prognosis is good.


I'm so ****ing angry and upset that they can do this. My dad is 68, worked all his life, raised three children, been the best dad to me and my brother and sister. We are very close as a family and I have so much time and respect for him.


At work I deal with the absolute dregs of society most days, sponging wasters that get everything handed to them on a plate. Junkies who get put on drug rehab programmes, given methadone when its quite clear the scum will never change. Yet my dad who is more deserving that any of those ***** is basically given the middle finger and told to **** off.


Obviously as a family were going to try and look into funding this between us but I’m keen to explore all options. I'm hoping there’s some sort of fund or grant that can maybe be applied for. Is anyone aware of such a scheme?

Ring the prostate cancer charties, see if any will fund his Rx.
 

I appreciate your input here and obviously you knowledge on this subject is vastly superior to mine. From what reading I've done on Abiraterone and what I know of my dads condition it seems he is exactly the sort of patient that it would benefit. Unsuccessful chemo, failed hormone therapy and the cancer has spread to his bones and appears to be spreading rapidly.

It's just frustrating knowing that there is a drug there can help my dad but its just out of reach.
 
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