Nissan Leaf: Future or Failure?

[Simon]

It is an automated system from below the car


An electric motor is always going to be more efficient than combustion in an engine, what we need is a good medium for storing energy be it a battery or hydrogen or something else

Who's going to set up the infra structure for the 'Renault battery swap machines' and where would it go next to all the other OEMs solutions?

Why would you even thing hydrogen is more effiecient than gasoline ? Making the stuff and compressing it is massively energy intensive.

Combustion in a gas turbine engine is more efficient than batteries.

'what we need is a good storage medium for energy' this is correct but you seemed to disagree when I said we need new battery technology. You seem to think we need more of the same by opening mines ???

 

[Simon]

Is veg oil particularly bad? Certain older diesel cars seem to run on it without too much trouble...

Is on common rail. Seems to be fine on unit injectors though.

 

[rypt]

ICE Engine is about 30% efficient
Gas turbine is about 60% efficient

EV is above that

As for Hydrogen, which is only possible solution via fuel cells, it can be created as a by product of the latest nuclear reactors

Oh and I agree with regards to battery tech, but it is an area of hot research and is constantly moving and improving

 

[Simon]

Electric cars are waste of time. A car that has very little chance of taking you from outskirts of M25 to the city and back on a winter morning/night without spending few hours glued to the plug let alone 6 days and 5 charges it will need to take a family of 4 and their holiday gear from London down to Cornwall at motorway speeds. Unless there is a sudden break through in power storage and antigravity technology, the Leaf is just a tool for measuring if stupidity and deep pockets coincide.

I wish car manufacturers just stopped doing expensive PR exercises and focused on alternative fuels for combustion engines instead.

Or just improve battery technology so they become a solution. Quicker charging, bettery performance(max current draw), cheaper, longer range, smaller and lighter.

Plenty of opportunity for all of these. My boss had a mini E for six months. The battery was huge and took up the whole rear seats yet only did 100miles on a full charge. Definately in the infancy of battery technology today

 

[v0n]

An electric motor is always going to be more efficient than combustion in an engine, what we need is a good medium for storing energy be it a battery or hydrogen or something else

For electric motor to be viable alternative it would need to be capable of towing huge weights for haulage industry, masses of people for public transport and provide fast enough pace and long enough distance for general public. When you consider how many tons of batteries and charges Ford would need to tow 18 tons of electric Mondeos from Germany to your local Dagenham Motors outlet, you will quickly realise you don't just need break through in energy storage tech - you need Jedi knights landing on swamps of Thamesmead to start training drivers in using The Force for antigravity pulls.

 

[Fuzz]

Unless we start putting money towards a smart grid infrastructure then our existing ailing grid isn't going to cope.
Bye bye petrol, hello brown outs every time we get home from work and whack our cars on charge

 

[Simon]

ICE Engine is about 30% efficient
Gas turbine is about 60% efficient

EV is above that

As for Hydrogen, which is only possible solution via fuel cells, it can be created as a by product of the latest nuclear reactors

Oh and I agree with regards to battery tech, but it is an area of hot research and is constantly moving and improving

If you go nuclear why bother with hydrogen ? electricity has all the infrastructure already there apart from charging stations which are easy to add

 

[rypt]

For electric motor to be viable alternative it would need to be capable of towing huge weights for haulage industry, masses of people for public transport and provide fast enough pace and long enough distance for general public.

Why? Why not run heavy industry on biodiesel from algae?

 

[Simon]

Inductive road charging is one option rather than Jedis

 

[G-MAN2004]

Nissan Leaf. Just lol at anyone who buys that.

 

[rypt]

If you go nuclear why bother with hydrogen ? electricity has all the infrastructure already there apart from charging stations which are easy to add

Because it depends if battery tech catches up fast enough

 

[Mon]

Interesting video on electric cars features the Nissan leaf..
Well worth a watch.

 

[Simon]

Why? Why not run heavy industry on biodiesel from algae?

Is this pond going to be the moon ? Ignoring the well to wheels arguememt you wouldn't be able to grow enough algae on this planet

 

[rypt]

Is this pond going to be the moon ? Ignoring the well to wheels arguememt you wouldn't be able to grow enough algae on this planet

Go read up on algae based biofuel

You need something the size of the UK to power the whole world afaik

The United States Department of Energy estimates that if algae fuel replaced all the petroleum fuel in the United States, it would require 15,000 square miles which is only .42% of the U.S. map (40,000 km2)

 

[v0n]

Why? Why not run heavy industry on biodiesel from algae?

Why not use biofuels for everything else? Why bother with electric cars? Leaf has a press tested, reported range of 75km when driven at motorway speed. 45 miles. Add weight of extra passengers. Add heating. Add radio. Add headlamps. You need it plugged in for 30 minutes if you run out. Look there's traffic ahead. It's another Leaf driver who misjudged power requirements blocking one motorway lane.

 

[Tute]

Also, it says a range of 70-odd miles, but I assume this is granny driving?

If you decide to try the performance of the car a bit, what are we talking then? I bet the average town driver is looking at less than 50 miles on a charge.

Oh, and...

Using level 3 quick charging, the battery pack can be charged to 80% capacity in about 30 minutes.[55] Nissan developed its own 500-volt quick charger that went on sale in Japan for ¥1,470,000 (around US$16,800) in May 2010 and plans to install 200 at dealers in Japan.[56][57] Nissan warns that if fast charging is the primary way of recharging, then the normal and gradual battery capacity loss is about 10% more than regular 220-volt charging over a 10-year period.

So if you use the quick charge too much, it degrades the battery. Fantastic.

I don't mind the Leaf succeeding as a car, hell it's good for the environment and although I don't believe in GW, anything that improves quality of air is a good thing.

But it needs to be implemented better than this.

 

[rypt]

Because ICE is not as efficient as electric, and never will be
ICE also generates plenty of toxic stuff, and especially diesel engines which is what biofuel is.


Batteries or similar media will eventually catch up, give it time.

 

[Tute]

The car companies should be using hybrids to improve battery technology - there's plenty of opportunity there to slowly better energy storing techniques before going for something like this.

I'm going to sit firmly on the fence on this. I think the Leaf itself will be a FAIL of 2011 simply because of the figures it claims. But if it leads to better things from the industry..

 

[Mon]

ICE also generates plenty of toxic stuff, and especially diesel engines which is what biofuel is.

Biodiesel in Diesel engines reduces overall emissions



Biofuels are allot more expensive to run than electric cars, my Mondeo runs on 100% home-made biodiesel cost of around 10p a litre and still a Nissan leaf will cut that cost in half!

 

[Dave85]

I actually want a prius or hybrid