North Korea moves rocket into place (with video)

Soldato
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Video here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17650344

The simplicity of the set up is crazy in places - the launch setup is purely scaffolding! the launch room looks like they have 4 PCs with 3 monitors each. It's more LAN party than Launch room.

The satellite is designed to just broadcast songs?

Crazy..
 
Associate
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I'm surprised at the level of access given, although it's hard to believe those few PC's are whats controlling anything.
 
Caporegime
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The launch pad looks fairly similar to the US and EU launch pads... They all look like scaffolding... :p

There is a really big issue with this for me as fundamentally NK should not be banned from putting something into space, why should it be dictated to by other nations that have already done so? On the other hand I see the issue of an ICBM test, but don't think anyone in NK would be stupid to use one in anger anyway, unless they were invaded... Which IMO is one of the main reasons the US doesn't want NK to have the ability, it can't dictate as much to a nation that can fight back... Catch 22
 
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Associate
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i think they may very well be crazy enough.

we will see soon enough anyway. :S
 
Caporegime
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i think they may very well be crazy enough.

we will see soon enough anyway. :S

Really...? They know exactly what would happen if they did. MAD works just as well for small nations as large nations...

The only time that would change would be if they were pushed to the brink, bet that due to invasion or something akin to them loosing wholesale destruction due to economic/political destruction by external parties. Ie if the US decided to stick it's oar in... As I said catch 22, the small nations decide the only way they can protect themselves from the oppressive US is by building something to scare the US away and stop them invading, in response the US puts more pressure on them (and increased threats to invade), which reinforces the suggestion that the small nation needs something to protect them... which gets even more pressure from the US...

Not just NK, but Iran has the same legitimate reasons for doing the same. They can't protect themselves conventionally against the US/Israel so may have decided to build something to stop any chance of invasion, this has caused even more sabre rattling by the US and Israel, causing even more legitimacy for those suggesting Iran needs a deterrent/way of defending itself.
 
Caporegime
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The don't want them to have nukes + ICBMs because of their instability, not because the US has any ideas about invading :o.

You say they'd be stupid to use one in anger, unless invaded... but they've hardly been ruled by the most rational of people, recently...

I've yet to hear clear reason why NK would commit suicide by launching a nuke... It's not like one person would push a button in a moment of idiocy and launch, it would involve a concerted effort by hundreds to get one launched, all knowing as soon as they did they and their families would basically be saying bye bye. The only time that would happen is if there was a lethal threat to their loved ones/culture, which basically means an invasion by a foreign force.

Rational? Well the guy got to this point in life without jumping off a bridge so I assume he has some kind of self preservation about himself...

EDIT: Just to clarify I'm not saying I agree that NK should have nuclear weapons, just that:
1. It would take a lot to get one launched
2. You shouldn't be disallowing nations to do things like launch satellites in to space.
3. Sanctions are one of the reasons people in NK are starving, it's not just the regime in NK that are causing suffering.
 
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Associate
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i don't know why they are bothering, they are wasting valuable country funding on a missile system that the US would walk over in seconds. If america want to invade they will, and no ICBM's will deter them. they should just put their hands up and get on with trying to move out of the stone age.
 
Caporegime
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There is a really big issue with this for me as fundamentally NK should not be banned from putting something into space, why should it be dictated to by other nations that have already done so?

because they can?

Because those nations want to maintain their security and value it above that of others?

Same reason we don't let any one own a machine gun but let the military use them.


Why should we be dictated as to what we can do on a world stage, more importantly who's going to?


Japan is also worried more than the US, and iirc has stated it may look into developing it's own military nuclear program in response so it's also an issue of trying to control proliferation (after all while every where may be stable now what about in 50 years, or a hundred years? best to try and reduce numbers while it's controllable.)

Then there's also the possibility they could trade the information like Pakistan did with nuclear tech and north Korea, NK might not use an ICBM to nuke America but whoever they trade the tech to could use a long range missile to conventionally strike someone else.

There are lots of reasons, to think it's just about direct threat of a missile to the Us is a laughable over simplification.


Oh and one last thing, if they get a working long range nuclear capability to strike the continental US, do you think the US will step in if they start shelling Seoul or try invading the south?
 
Soldato
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It's all probably not a huge deal:

Missile test in 1998
Taepodong-1
"However, the satellite failed to achieve orbit; outside observers conjecture that the additional third stage either failed to fire or malfunctioned."
However: "North Korean state media, which stated that the satellite achieved orbit about 5 minutes after launch."

Missile test in 2006
Taepodong-2
"According to preliminary reports, the missile failed in mid-flight 35–40 seconds after launch"

Satellite Launching in 2009
Taepodong-2
"The US Northern Command said that the first stage of the rocket fell into the Sea of Japan (East Sea of Korea), while the other rocket stages as well as the payload fell into the Pacific Ocean, and no object entered orbit""
However: "North Korea maintains that the rocket successfully put its payload in orbit

from wiki
 
Man of Honour
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Do the US have ASAT weaponry or was that programme abandoned ? From my nerdy days as a jet fighter fan, I'm sure they had the capability to take out satellites using an F-15 as a launch platform.
 
Soldato
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Actually watched a report about this last night on NHKHD ( Japanese news channel in HD )

They went into a lot more detail about it and showed some other clips which the BBC didn't show.....

Needless to say - I don't think that satelite is going anywhere ( and if it does go up - it will last about 2 minutes ) - it looked like a cardboard box with some solar cells stuck all around it.
In fact here it is....
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/photo/2012-04/09/c_131514165_6.htm

The rocket on the other hand was well designed and pretty ominous looking - just right for the worlds media to start gathering around.

And this....

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iaMb7Xbj0J5eEY0bVeYJwF4c64nQ?docId=ae5e0f8fa4bd45e28a87e0aa01f590d4

And as for using nukes - what have they got to lose ? The people are starving due to santions imposed - the dictator/leader doesn't seem to give a monkees about anyone - and the world basically believes they are all lunatics anyway (and have the worst human-rights of any nation). And they have the 4th largest army - even though they haven't got enough money to eat.
 
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Man of Honour
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Here we go again with the why shouldn't they crowd.

How about they feed the population before deciding on a space programme?

Doubtless the next reply will be omg Americahas homeless people and a space programme.
 
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