Nurse arrested for murdering babies

ANDREW GREEN said:
I can only think he's talking about her illegal collection of medical files of all the babies who were killed or attacked amongst medical files of other babies. The latter makes me wonder if she actually attacked more babies and it wasn't picked up on.
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It's come out today that she was also investigated at other hospitals she worked at.

www.bbc.co.uk

Lucy Letby inquiry: 'Tubes dislodged' during placement at other hospital

Lucy Letby worked two placements at Liverpool Women's Hospital in 2012 and 2015.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
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Jokester said:
www.telegraph.co.uk

Lucy Letby was not working on day Baby C was harmed, BBC investigation finds

‘Flawed’ pivotal evidence places serious doubt on a conviction, ex-government science adviser suggests
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk

The more that comes out about this the more doubt about the conviction there appears to be. Her defense team were absolutely useless.
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This all came out at court, below from the BBC shows the clickbait is misleading:

Letby was not working on the day the X-ray was taken and had not been on shift since before the baby was born - information the jury heard in her first trial. Letby’s former barrister Ben Myers also highlighted these details in his closing argument.

In his summing up the judge made clear to the jury this X-ray had been taken the day before Baby C collapsed, though he didn’t remind them Letby hadn’t been on shift. At appeal, the prosecution said Letby could have visited the hospital while off shift, but didn’t put forward any evidence that she was there.

The BBC has also spoken to five senior clinicians who reviewed Baby C’s medical notes made public at trial - although only one had access to the baby’s complete medical history. They all noted the baby was high risk and should have been in a higher level unit.

Prof Colin Morley, a retired professor of neonatology from the University of Cambridge, told File on 4 he was “very confident” Baby C died of natural causes.

At the trial, the X-ray was not the only evidence used to convict Letby on this charge. The prosecution argued text messages showed she was desperate to get into the room where Baby C was being treated, even though she wasn’t his designated nurse. Another nurse said she found Letby standing over the baby’s cot when he collapsed. After he died, Letby again searched for his parents on Facebook.
 
kindai said:
I think shes guilty, but at the same time also believe she has a right to a fair and just trial.

Based on what is coming out, it seems for at least some of the charges, that may not have happened.
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She had a fair trial and a very expensive legal team that made the decision not to call their own expert witness that they had sought out. There thinking was that they could try and throw out the prosecutions expert witness if they did not call their own expert witness
 
ANDREW GREEN said:
At the trial, the X-ray was not the only evidence used to convict Letby on this charge. The prosecution argued text messages showed she was desperate to get into the room where Baby C was being treated, even though she wasn’t his designated nurse. Another nurse said she found Letby standing over the baby’s cot when he collapsed. After he died, Letby again searched for his parents on Facebook.
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It’s not misleading - the cause of death was present before Letby had access to the baby. And whilst Letby was clearly a bit weird and obsessive that in itself isn’t evidence she murdered that particular baby.

The BBC investigation also found that the two babies murdered via insulin poisoning may have been natural deaths after speaking to experts as the insulin levels were at a level where they may have been misreading from testing and no verification testing was done to confirm the initial results. Experts also stated the levels were much much lower than what they would expect to be required to kill a baby. No evidence was seemingly provided that insulin was missing either.

The truth matters and what was presented at the court case has increasingly been found to be like Swiss cheese.
 
IvanDobskey said:
I can't believe anyone doesn't think she's guilty, baffling
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The same could have been (and probably was) said about the other similar cases where the convicted women were later found not guilty...
Even SGF, who knows far more and has seen far more evidence than any of us here, was previously dead-certain of things has now started to question them.
 
Jokester said:
It’s not misleading - the cause of death was present before Letby had access to the baby. And whilst Letby was clearly a bit weird and obsessive that in itself isn’t evidence she murdered that particular baby.

The BBC investigation also found that the two babies murdered via insulin poisoning may have been natural deaths after speaking to experts as the insulin levels were at a level where they may have been misreading from testing and no verification testing was done to confirm the initial results. Experts also stated the levels were much much lower than what they would expect to be required to kill a baby. No evidence was seemingly provided that insulin was missing either.

The truth matters and what was presented at the court case has increasingly been found to be like Swiss cheese.
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Could be nothing but the trusts management initially protective of the nurse might have dirty laundry they didn't want revealed and may have pivoted to just landing all the blame on her.
 
Jokester said:
It’s not misleading - the cause of death was present before Letby had access to the baby. And whilst Letby was clearly a bit weird and obsessive that in itself isn’t evidence she murdered that particular baby.

The BBC investigation also found that the two babies murdered via insulin poisoning may have been natural deaths after speaking to experts as the insulin levels were at a level where they may have been misreading from testing and no verification testing was done to confirm the initial results. Experts also stated the levels were much much lower than what they would expect to be required to kill a baby. No evidence was seemingly provided that insulin was missing either.

The truth matters and what was presented at the court case has increasingly been found to be like Swiss cheese.
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Experts on killing babies with insulin? How many tests have they done to check the amount that kills a premature baby? Also IIRC there was insulin that either went missing or was signed out. I'm unsure on my recollection of that though

Also A) you don't know the cause of death. B) you also don't know Letby wasn't in the ward on days she did not work. We know she tried to get shifts on those days and she was standing over the dead baby C when it died.

Also you don't know most of what was presented at court. For instance Letby was caught covering up and blood coming from a babies mouth and denying it happened despite the mother's witness statement.
 
ANDREW GREEN said:
Experts on killing babies with insulin? How many tests have they done to check the amount that kills a premature baby? Also IIRC there was insulin that either went missing or was signed out. I'm unsure on my recollection of that though

Also A) you don't know the cause of death. B) you also don't know Letby wasn't in the ward on days she did not work. We know she tried to get shifts on those days and she was standing over the dead baby C when it died.

Also you don't know most of what was presented at court. For instance Letby was caught covering up and blood coming from a babies mouth and denying it happened despite the mother's witness statement.
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Oddly enough, you'll be surprised to learn that there are experts on working out what safe drug limits are for infants.

Anyway, have a read of the experts assessment of the court evidence in the insulin cases and also the bowel obstruction death (which I assume was the cause of death because that was what she was accused of causing and found guilty of):

www.bbc.co.uk

Lucy Letby: Experts raise doubts about medical evidence presented in court

Doctors and scientists' concerns contribute to speculation about the safety of the nurse's convictions.
www.bbc.co.uk

Also looks at other death due to liver injury (which I think there was already concerns raised on the misuse of the diagnostic method by it's creator?).
 
ttaskmaster said:
The same could have been (and probably was) said about the other similar cases where the convicted women were later found not guilty...
Even SGF, who knows far more and has seen far more evidence than any of us here, was previously dead-certain of things has now started to question them.
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Whose SGF?
 
ttaskmaster said:
The same could have been (and probably was) said about the other similar cases where the convicted women were later found not guilty...
Even SGF, who knows far more and has seen far more evidence than any of us here, was previously dead-certain of things has now started to question them.
Click to expand...

Yes I work in a Legal Team in a Trust and we've had meetings on this case.

I'm not saying she's innocent but there is a lot of evidence that needs looking at.
eg The Timesheet didn't have all Staff on it and also didn't include all baby incidents & deaths, it's as though it had been made to only show her at every incident.
Jokester above has now mentioned the two babies with 'high insulin' where it wasn't.
Her diaries would be thrown out now because she was told to write stuff down by her NHS Counsellor and she wrote one thing down then wrote the opposite somewhere else.
She didn't have one expert to speak up for her and now we have several who will and put their jobs on the line.
There's quite a bit of stuff now that needs addressing.
 
SexyGreyFox said:
Her diaries would be thrown out now because she was told to write stuff down by her NHS Counsellor and she wrote one thing down then wrote the opposite somewhere else.
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This was the one thing that actually swung it for me, bit hard to ignore an "admission of guilt" even though it kinda wasn't explicit as such - but the report that she may have been told to write down her feelings as a way of managing her mental state puts new light on it.
 
Jokester said:
This was the one thing that actually swung it for me, bit hard to ignore an "admission of guilt" even though it kinda wasn't explicit as such - but the report that she may have been told to write down her feelings as a way of managing her mental state puts new light on it.
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If I'm told to write my feelings down, I'm pretty sure I won't state I'd been killing babies. Because you know, I don't kill babies.
 
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