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NVIDIA 4000 Series

LtMatt said:
Something we agree on, and this one is Nvidia sponsored too.

Seems like performance is pretty good until you enable Ray Tracing, that goes for all GPUs.
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Indeed, performance data should be left to native resolution testing with none of these add in technologies such as RT, DLSS & FG.

RT, whilst a thing going forward, just impacts performance too much and DLSS & FG there to alleviate poor implementation/optimisation. Nice to have - but I think most of the time it's an add on poorly inplemented and if RT wants to become serious then they need to limit the impact on perfromance.

I get those who feel DLSS/FSR and now Frame Gen is cheating - FG I'm on the fence with, as whilst you do get more frames overall - half are delivered via another method and if you cant discernibly tell the difference and it feels like high FPS with no loss in quality then I'm getting more frames - half rendered traditionally, then insertion from some quick interpolation or whatever it uses, from the traditionally rendered frames.

Gfx cards back in the day had defined processors to do certain jobs - then we went to multistream processors (8800GT's?) that coukld do all tasks and switch between processing jobs to demand - current gfx cards seem to be introducing specific cores/processors to do certain roles again. such as Tensor cores etc. So whilst folk arent getting traditional increased raw processing power AMD & Nvidia are bringing new technologies to help get to 4k 120fps with minimal loss in IQ. These have a cost obviously, but folk slow to equate those costs as an alternative to raw traditional rasterization costs expected by many.

Increases in raw raster maybe hard to keep linear as in the past so new techs are implemented - would rather Nvidia removed the expensive GDDR6X from cards to cheaper GDDR6 and pass on the savings, as I see no advantages of using 6X over 6.
 
Woodsta888 said:
Right, so you trust none of the actual worlds tech press, but some wannabe off a forum somewhere? -

You get your world news and facts from TikTok too?
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Are these the same tech press sites that published reviews of 3,500 GBP-5,550 GBP, 4080 12GB based laptops yesterday and did not test Hogwarts?

funny how the 4080 laptop review embargo went down just before Hogwarts was released to the public.

Are these the same tech press sites that raved about the 4090s performance but did not warn 4090 buyers about coil whine? (apart from Debauer).

You can rely on the 'words tech press' if you want, I would sooner someone here ran the tests.

If I had ordered one of those 5,5k MSI laptops yesterday, I would not be very happy right now, until I had re-assurance from someone else other than, the world press.
 
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Besty said:
@LtMatt the only testing I fully trust is OCUK forum testing but if true one of the biggest games of the year just kicked Jensen in the nadgies.

On a serious note though, if anyone has pre-ordered a 3k laptop this week with a 4080 12GB inside, you might want to hold off until the OCUK forum has put this game through the ringer, if you are intending to use said laptop a lot with this game at max settings.

@Boomstick777 do you have a 4070ti (memory is hazy) and if so do you want to be a gineau pig by trying hogwarts at 4k?
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Yeah 4070 Ti, I will definitely be up for trying that game at some point. Got too much on atm, hopefully by the time I've got some free time the price will have come down a tad. PC games seem expensive these days like everything else lol.
 
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Woodsta888 said:
Indeed, performance data should be left to native resolution testing with none of these add in technologies such as RT, DLSS & FG.

RT, whilst a thing going forward, just impacts performance too much and DLSS & FG there to alleviate poor implementation/optimisation. Nice to have - but I think most of the time it's an add on poorly inplemented and if RT wants to become serious then they need to limit the impact on perfromance.

I get those who feel DLSS/FSR and now Frame Gen is cheating - FG I'm on the fence with, as whilst you do get more frames overall - half are delivered via another method and if you cant discernibly tell the difference and it feels like high FPS with no loss in quality then I'm getting more frames - half rendered traditionally, then insertion from some quick interpolation or whatever it uses, from the traditionally rendered frames.

Gfx cards back in the day had defined processors to do certain jobs - then we went to multistream processors (8800GT's?) that coukld do all tasks and switch between processing jobs to demand - current gfx cards seem to be introducing specific cores/processors to do certain roles again. such as Tensor cores etc. So whilst folk arent getting traditional increased raw processing power AMD & Nvidia are bringing new technologies to help get to 4k 120fps with minimal loss in IQ. These have a cost obviously, but folk slow to equate those costs as an alternative to raw traditional rasterization costs expected by many.

Increases in raw raster maybe hard to keep linear as in the past so new techs are implemented - would rather Nvidia removed the expensive GDDR6X from cards to cheaper GDDR6 and pass on the savings, as I see no advantages of using 6X over 6.
Click to expand...
Agree with all of that tbf. :)
 
Besty said:
Are these the same tech press sites that published reviews of 3,500 GBP-5,550 GBP, 4080 12GB based laptops yesterday and did not test Hogwarts?

funny how the 4080 laptop review embargo went down just before Hogwarts was released to the public.

Are these the same tech press sites that raved about the 4090s performance but did not warn 4090 buyers about coil whine? (apart from Debauer).

You can rely on the 'words tech press' if you want, I would sooner someone here ran the tests.

If I had ordered one of those 5,5k MSI laptops yesterday, I would not be very happy right now, until I had re-assurance from someone else other than, the world press.
Click to expand...


Hmmmm, I see what you are trying to say - Laptop Gfx cards whilst sold as a tier have the performance of much lower cards but you are still charged for the price. Charged for convenience if you dont have the room for a stand alone PC. Laptop gaming is in the same bracket to me as console gaming - people who need their rig mobile. £5,550 would get you a high end PC and a 42 inch OLED.

Coil whine - been about for ages - always dissipates over time but I get why when spending todays prices people expect more. I imagine people with their PC's on their desks next to them, who like looking at RGB etc and are interested in form are more affected. Though I don't see how bright RGB pC next to a monitor will aid game immersiveness, much like using speakers or headphones. People need to stress their cards on purchase to bed in the capacitor resonances creating the noise. Not send them back immediately. But have to somewhat agree that after so many years of it being a thing and todays prices, AMD & NVidia should be mitigating whine these days. Though playing any new game apparently, wont cause whine as FPS isn't high enough - except in menus.
 
Woodsta888 said:
Hmmmm, I see what you are trying to say - Laptop Gfx cards whilst sold as a tier have the performance of much lower cards but you are still charged for the price. Charged for convenience if you dont have the room for a stand alone PC. Laptop gaming is in the same bracket to me as console gaming - people who need their rig mobile. £5,550 would get you a high end PC and a 42 inch OLED.

Coil whine - been about for ages - always dissipates over time but I get why when spending todays prices people expect more. I imagine people with their PC's on their desks next to them, who like looking at RGB etc and are interested in form are more affected. Though I don't see how bright RGB pC next to a monitor will aid game immersiveness, much like using speakers or headphones. People need to stress their cards on purchase to bed in the capacitor resonances creating the noise. Not send them back immediately. But have to somewhat agree that after so many years of it being a thing and todays prices, AMD & NVidia should be mitigating whine these days. Though playing any new game apparently, wont cause whine as FPS isn't high enough - except in menus.
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Did you watch the video that @kindai posted? No amount of "bedding in" is going to fix the buzzing
 
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Noxia said:
Did you watch the video that @kindai posted? No amount of "bedding in" is going to fix the buzzing
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Not seen that one and clicked users name but they post a lot so couldnt quickly find it -

I'm just going by experience where I've had cards audible at the beginning - even bad ones in the past - but always dissipated over time. My 4090 has none - though it's in a case, on the floor and the inside of mine is more function over form.

If I put a pic of my PC internals on here - I'd be laughed out of the forum -


not that that hasn't already happened :D
 
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Noxia said:
Post in thread '4080 & 4090 Coil Whine Thread' https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/4080-4090-coil-whine-thread.18960456/post-36180289

youtu.be

Rambling about Coil Whine

AHOC Patreon/Shirts/Junkyard:http://cxzoid.blogspot.co.uk/p/support-fail.htmlThe Twitch:https://www.twitch.tv/buildzoidThe Facebook: https://www.facebook.co...
youtu.be youtu.be

I found it really useful because I didn't actually understand why there was an angry bumblebee in my PC case until I watched it.
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Watched that - didn't clock the bit that said it never goes away as someone said that's what the vid explains. Anything that vibrates will essentially wear or bed in as vibration is movement, albeit caused by electrical/magnetic resonance. Still stand by coil whine dissipates over time, even on those big coils AMD used to use as I had 7970Ghz & 7990. They whined badly on purchase but after a few months - silent.

TV's (plasmas) used to come with ferrite rings to add to power cables to dissipate EMI and thus noise to the panel.

I wonder if, as PSU's often go hand in hand with whine, someone put ferrite rings on the gfx card cables from PSU to card, or PSU power cable to see if it makes a difference to one suffering with whine - particularly as a PSU change has solved whine for some in the past?
 
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It was mentioned in the Asus 4090 ROG laptop review, if you take the fans down to 40db (silent mode - it throttles the GPU down to 2070 Super performance levels) you can hear the coil whine from inside the laptop.

This tid-bit confirms in my mind that its the components directly around the GPU that are causing it. It's highly likely that Asus knew about this before the laptops release but either a) refused to to anything about it b) it was too late for this product cycle to fix it
 
Woodsta888 said:
Watched that - didn't clock the bit that said it never goes away as someone said that's what the vid explains. Anything that vibrates will essentially wear or bed in as vibration is movement, albeit caused by electrical/magnetic resonance. Still stand by coil whine dissipates over time, even on those big coils AMD used to use as I had 7970Ghz & 7990. They whined badly on purchase but after a few months - silent.

TV's (plasmas) used to come with ferrite rings to add to power cables to dissipate EMI and thus noise to the panel.

I wonder if, as PSU's often go hand in hand with whine, someone put ferrite rings on the gfx card cables from PSU to card, or PSU power cable to see if it makes a difference to one suffering with whine - particularly as a PSU change has solved whine for some in the past?
Click to expand...

That is what I assumed tbh not based on knowledge lol. I guess it would be interesting to say leave the card on something that makes it buzz horribly and just leave it and see.
Don't think I've used any of my 4090s for more than like 5 hours.
 
Woodsta888 said:
Increases in raw raster maybe hard to keep linear as in the past so new techs are implemented
Click to expand...
Nvidia jumped from samsung 8nm > tsmc 5nm which was a much larger node increase than from tsmc 12nm > samsung 8nm yet managed a much smaller performance uplift on every card so far bar the 4090 and it gets even worse when you take the new prices into account.
 
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