NVIDIA 4000 Series

BigBANGtheory · 25 Apr 2022 at 13:25

Nexus18 said:
3090/4090 kind of gpus are for people with no care in value and/or with money to burn.

exactly, so one needs to be very aware of people/Nvidia drawing those comparisons and using the 3090 in any kind of value topic along with the non-reference 102 variants because that is the sort of argument used to raise prices on the lower end SKUs

TNA · 25 Apr 2022 at 13:50

Nexus18 said:
Don't think £500 will happen, expecting closer to £600 but still, even at £700, it would be a bargain

If you mean AIB ones yea sure, but the MSRP and FE will be closer to £500 imo.

HACO said:
I wouldn't hold my breath. I expect pricing will be £650, £850 and £1500 for 4070, 4080 and 4090. Performance could even be better than 3090 though.

Yes, we had this conversation last generation as well

Haha. You was coming out with some looney price projections as I recall :cry:

Yea, I mean if performance is substantially better then yea, they may try and charge a bit more. My guess is based on 3090 performance or thereabouts.

BigBANGtheory said:
Just remember £650-700 could have got you 90% of a 3090 performance a year and half ago.

So a £600 4070 edging out a 3090 in Q4 2022 isn't that great at all, be careful of Nvidia smoke and mirrors, the 3090 is a very very poor value GPU for gamers and always was.

2X a 3080 @£700 incl. additional vram would be compelling but you can bet Nvidia will do everything in their power not to give that to you even though they could.

Exactly. I got my 3080 which was just that for under £600 after selling the codes that came with it. That’s why I would be surprised if they cannot hit 3090 performance for £499 or less.

As with every gen though, you got the types that come out with surprise or anger at the fact. When all you have to do is look back and you will see more often than not this is the trend..

Nexus18 · 25 Apr 2022 at 13:56

TNA said:
If you mean AIB ones yea sure, but the MSRP and FE will be closer to £500 imo.

Haha. You was coming out with some looney price projections as I recall

Yea, I mean if performance is substantially better then yea, they may try and charge a bit more. My guess is based on 3090 performance or thereabouts.

Exactly. I got my 3080 which was just that for under £600 after selling the codes that came with it. That’s why I would be surprised if they cannot hit 3090 performance for £499 or less.

As with every gen though, you got the types that come out with surprise or anger at the fact. When all you have to do is look back and you will see more often than not this is the trend..

Referring to MSRP/FE.

3070 official price was £470 iirc? 4070 will be at least £500/550 along with the 4080 being £700/750 imo.

AIB will no doubt be silly prices again, probably with the 4070 pushing close/over £650 and 4080 AIB being £800/850.

TNA · 25 Apr 2022 at 14:11

Nexus18 said:
Referring to MSRP/FE.

3070 official price was £470 iirc? 4070 will be at least £500/550 along with the 4080 being £700/750 imo.

AIB will no doubt be silly prices again, probably with the 4070 pushing close/over £650 and 4080 AIB being £800/850.

Yeah, sounds about right. Most users when mentioning silly prices they mean AIB prices which is fair as those are priced way above msrp as they know people will lube up and buy them. Once demand goes down then prices start to also, but on launch we all know demand will be high.

Dave2150 · 25 Apr 2022 at 14:22

HACO said:
With AMD being competitive and the crypto cycle coming to an end, Nvidia will need to have competitive products otherwise AMD can take a big chunk of their market.

I'll be disappointed if 4070 didn't end up beating 3090 comfortably, and I expect 4080 to be at least 2x a 3070. The move from Samsung 8nm to TSMC 4nm should enable most of the gains, with IPC improvements providing the rest.

I completely disagree. The majority of high end gamers have bought 3080/3090's, at double or greater than double the cost of similarly performing cards from AMD.

IMO this is due to several factors, the main being as follows:

Reliability. No huge driver issues in the last few years, hassle free software. Tried and tested (old, boring) UI
Gsync. Many are locked in with Gsync monitors bought years ago. Also newer devices (LG OLED's for example) all have GSYNC plastered all over the box
Nvidia mindshare. This is extremely powerful and causes consumers to pick Nvidia even if AMD release better performing cards, simply as Geforce RTX is green and it’s released by Nvidia.

danlightbulb · 25 Apr 2022 at 14:39

Dave2150 said:
I completely disagree. The majority of high end gamers have bought 3080/3090's, at double or greater than double the cost of similarly performing cards from AMD.

IMO this is due to several factors, the main being as follows:

Reliability. No huge driver issues in the last few years, hassle free software. Tried and tested (old, boring) UI

Gsync. Many are locked in with Gsync monitors bought years ago. Also newer devices (LG OLED's for example) all have GSYNC plastered all over the box

Nvidia mindshare. This is extremely powerful and causes consumers to pick Nvidia even if AMD release better performing cards, simply as Geforce RTX is green and it’s released by Nvidia.

Also Nvidia released first, with a great FE design and compared to AMD, good availability with constant drops.

AMD shot themselves in the foot big time by not having enough chips because they were diverting them all to console manufacture.

This time around, if AMD don't learn their lessons then Nvidia will win again. I predict good availability this time from Nvidia, and a sweet FE design partially making AIB's redundant. AMD need to have power, price and availability to win this time. Can they do it?

HACO · 25 Apr 2022 at 15:32

Dave2150 said:
I completely disagree. The majority of high end gamers have bought 3080/3090's, at double or greater than double the cost of similarly performing cards from AMD.

IMO this is due to several factors, the main being as follows:

Reliability. No huge driver issues in the last few years, hassle free software. Tried and tested (old, boring) UI

Gsync. Many are locked in with Gsync monitors bought years ago. Also newer devices (LG OLED's for example) all have GSYNC plastered all over the box

Nvidia mindshare. This is extremely powerful and causes consumers to pick Nvidia even if AMD release better performing cards, simply as Geforce RTX is green and it’s released by Nvidia.

Gaps in all of those are closing, last gen was the first time in a long time that AMD was competitive with Nvidia, this time it will be second. People are much more confident that AMD can deliver top-class products. Monitor situation is pretty unanimous these days as all monitors are G-Sync compatible and FreeSync. Nvidia no longer has the ecosystem advantage that it did a few years ago.

gpuerrilla · 25 Apr 2022 at 15:45

HACO said:
Gaps in all of those are closing, last gen was the first time in a long time that AMD was competitive with Nvidia, this time it will be second. People are much more confident that AMD can deliver top-class products. Monitor situation is pretty unanimous these days as all monitors are G-Sync compatible and FreeSync. Nvidia no longer has the ecosystem advantage that it did a few years ago.

The basis means well though, he is quite right to point out the majority of folk in the UK bought from multiple retailers and AIB ones costing double. People also paid double buying off of the bay for FE editions to scalpers.

Apart from what, hundreds of enthusiasts who frequent these forums adding up to a few thousand nationally, most folk paid well over the going rate for what the cards should have sold for. A large portion of these people wont be upgrading so soon IMO.

I do agree with the AMD needs to get their finger out to enable more units to UK people but they do have two open goals this time to finish.. 1) better raster performance 2) power consumption. I imagine nvidia will still keep the ray tracing trophy for another gen but AMD should be able to beat Ampere's RT and by a margin otherwise the mindshare will again overpower.

HACO · 25 Apr 2022 at 16:34

gpuerrilla said:
The basis means well though, he is quite right to point out the majority of folk in the UK bought from multiple retailers and AIB ones costing double. People also paid double buying off of the bay for FE editions to scalpers.

Of course, but it wasn't like AMD GPUs were available at MSRP everywhere, those were in big shortage as well and were going for more than asking price too, maybe not double but usually 50-75% more at the peak.

gpuerrilla said:
Apart from what, hundreds of enthusiasts who frequent these forums adding up to a few thousand nationally, most folk paid well over the going rate for what the cards should have sold for. A large portion of these people wont be upgrading so soon IMO.

All the more reason for Nvidia to deliver more value and more competitive prices. If they don't, there's even less of an incentive to upgrade.

gpuerrilla said:
I do agree with the AMD needs to get their finger out to enable more units to UK people but they do have two open goals this time to finish.. 1) better raster performance 2) power consumption. I imagine nvidia will still keep the ray tracing trophy for another gen but AMD should be able to beat Ampere's RT and by a margin otherwise the mindshare will again overpower.

Yeah, what AMD needed this gen was just more availability, they sold everything they could make (just like Nvidia), but next gen there will be more supply (mining cycle is over, chip shortage is less severe, Apple will free up lots of N7/N5 at TSMC).

If AMD releases a £500 GPU that equals 4080 for rasterisation and has acceptable RT, Nvidia can't sell theirs at £1000 anymore. They will need to price it more competitively (e.g. 20% more than AMD will be fine, 2x would not).

Harlequin · 25 Apr 2022 at 16:58

danlightbulb said:
Also Nvidia released first, with a great FE design and compared to AMD, good availability with constant drops.

AMD shot themselves in the foot big time by not having enough chips because they were diverting them all to console manufacture.

This time around, if AMD don't learn their lessons then Nvidia will win again. I predict good availability this time from Nvidia, and a sweet FE design partially making AIB's redundant. AMD need to have power, price and availability to win this time. Can they do it?

nearly 3 months since last 3080 drop....

uscool · 25 Apr 2022 at 17:09

Well it seems like they eased off with the drops maybe preparing for next gen , can't see it being because of shortages because we got more drops when supposedly was at peak

KompuKare · 25 Apr 2022 at 17:24

Harlequin said:
nearly 3 months since last 3080 drop....

But haven't there been plenty of 3080Ti drops since then?

Samsung's 8nm wasn't meant to have had good yields and that should have improved now. They make a lot more money on the 3070 + Ti models as they were effectively pre-scalped.

Harlequin · 25 Apr 2022 at 17:25

KompuKare said:
But haven't there been plenty of 3080Ti drops since then?

Samsung's 8nm wasn't meant to have had good yields and that should have improved now. They make a lot more money on the 3070 + Ti models as they were effectively pre-scalped.

Founders Drops Europe - In Depth and Updated - Google Sheets

Not as many as people seem to think

Nexus18 · 25 Apr 2022 at 17:26

From an enthusiast POV:

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/t...eference-or-aib-model.18944597/#post-35335054

gpuerrilla · 25 Apr 2022 at 17:29

Harlequin said:
nearly 3 months since last 3080 drop....

@tommybhoy knows how easy these cards are to come by! :cry:

KompuKare · 25 Apr 2022 at 17:30

Harlequin said:
Founders Drops Europe - In Depth and Updated - Google Sheets

Not as many as people seem to think

Maybe 4000 is just around the corner then?

Still, while yields and power of Samsung's 8nm weren't great I am sure Nvidia got a good deal so next gen I still expect some Samsung parts somewhere. Maybe even just something like GA106/GA104 run at lower clocks to take over from where the 1660 and the like were.

As for AMD, their numbers have been way down and I suspect it's not just in the UK. That high-street vendor of used parts actually has better prices on 3000 series stuff compared to 6000 series despite Nvidia usually keeping their value longer. I think that is purely supply and demand.

Harlequin · 25 Apr 2022 at 17:36

KompuKare said:
Maybe 4000 is just around the corner then?

Still, while yields and power of Samsung's 8nm weren't great I am sure Nvidia got a good deal so next gen I still expect some Samsung parts somewhere. Maybe even just something like GA106/GA104 run at lower clocks to take over from where the 1660 and the like were.

As for AMD, their numbers have been way down and I suspect it's not just in the UK. That high-street vendor of used parts actually has better prices on 3000 series stuff compared to 6000 series despite Nvidia usually keeping their value longer. I think that is purely supply and demand.

Thinking September for release - either end of august or early september for announcement and launch a few weeks later. No stock availability as scalpers buy up the entire lot - pre launch rtx 3000 cards sold for fire sale prices (second hand) then instant regret when replacements arnt available till 2024......

tommybhoy · 26 Apr 2022 at 09:00

gpuerrilla said:
@tommybhoy knows how easy these cards are to come by!

The 3080 FE has probably been on general sale for a total of about 2 hours max since launch and thats me being generous.

g67575 · 26 Apr 2022 at 10:10

Will they even bother with a RTX 4080 at launch? If they call it a RTX 4080 TI they can charge £1000 or more for the Founders Edition, alongside a RTX 4070 and 4090 launch. Then maybe just release a RTX 4080 6 months later.

With so many eager buyers, I can't see why they wouldn't do this.

GAC · 26 Apr 2022 at 10:13

g67575 said:
Will they even bother with a RTX 4080 at launch? If they call it a RTX 4080 TI they can charge £1000 or more for the Founders Edition, alongside a RTX 4070 and 4090 launch. Then maybe just release a RTX 4080 6 months later.

With so many eager buyers, I can't see why they wouldn't do this.

4080 at launch, the ti will come once they know how well the parts tap out and bin, as well as see what amd do.