NVIDIA ‘Ampere’ 8nm Graphics Cards

CuriousTomCat · 3 Nov 2019 at 11:27

bru said:
You must be reading a different forum, because the hate for ray tracing is real, not nesscersarly because it is in its infancy, but because it is connected to NVIDIA.

Well that's becasue Nvidia failed at it. People were suckered into buying it.

RTX is basically a prototype that shouldn't have been released for another generation or two. It's an unfinished product and it was a joke to release it in it's current state.

TNA · 3 Nov 2019 at 11:35

CuriousTomCat said:
Well that's becasue Nvidia failed at it. People were suckered into buying it.

RTX is basically a prototype that shouldn't have been released for another generation or two. It's an unfinished product and it was a joke to release it in it's current state.

+1

Don’t think people hate RT, just the ****** implementations out there currently not being worth the asking price or sacrifice of FPS. Once we get the hardware we need in the future and have full RT games everyone will love it.

DarrenM343 · 3 Nov 2019 at 12:45

CuriousTomCat said:
Well that's becasue Nvidia failed at it. People were suckered into buying it.

RTX is basically a prototype that shouldn't have been released for another generation or two. It's an unfinished product and it was a joke to release it in it's current state.

How have they failed at it? It's just very early technology. Failing at something is completely different.
Important technology starts somewhere and it has to be put out there for people to use which then helps develop it further. Electric cars. First manned space craft and the huge list goes on. new tech is ever perfect from the get go, or even that good a lot of the time.
Release it onto developers when the hardware is much further advanced brings it's own problems. They basically wouldn't implement it well in games due to lack of experience/knowledge of it.

Anyone remember using a 14.4 modem and praying that the server you were downloading from supported the resumption of downloads and spending hours downloading stuff for your internet connection to fail and having to restart from the beginning? The internet in some ways was pretty **** back then due to slow performance of connections. Servers were frequently down too. Even emails didn't always turn up.

Next gen RT will be where it is partly due to the 2000 series GPU's, learning from it (NV and developers) and further R&D. It's not all about hardware, there's skills, supporting software all improving/evolving around what's available now.

Dirk Diggler · 3 Nov 2019 at 12:45

Ray tracing is hated because it inflated the price of GPUs without bringing much benefit. Those who have no interest in beta testing RTX have no option but to stagnate for the time being.

If RTX was such a great option then that's what it would be, an option; RTX2080 & GTX2080. If that option were available, then the GTX version would outsell the RTX version because no one's going to choose to run their titles at 30fps. And that's why there isn't an option.

RTX is hated because it's killing the market.

Ian Evey · 3 Nov 2019 at 12:56

String said:
Ray tracing is hated because it inflated the price of GPUs without bringing much benefit. Those who have no interest in beta testing RTX have no option but to stagnate for the time being.

If RTX was such a great option then that's what it would be, an option; RTX2080 & GTX2080. If that option were available, then the GTX version would outsell the RTX version because no one's going to choose to run their titles at 30fps. And that's why there isn't an option.

RTX is hated because it's killing the market.

I agree, if there was a gtx 2080 for £499 it would be a massive seller. If people cannot live without rtx then I have no problem them buying it, but I won’t ever say it is worth the extra money for it on the 20xx cards.

Phixsator · 3 Nov 2019 at 13:11

bru said:
You must be reading a different forum, because the hate for ray tracing is real, not nesscersarly because it is in its infancy, but because it is connected to NVIDIA.

I think you are reading more into it that needs be friend. Sure you got the very few very loud yelling persons who will hate due to the specific brand with no regard for the actual engineering, but they are everywhere and in every subject. My own take on RTX is simple, too little for too high a cost performance wise and this is price aside for now. Doesn't mean I don't like the idea. The tech looks cool but to me it is just not worth investing in due to the very lacking performance. We have just within the last few years come out of the whole "Cinematic 30fps is all you need" era and got to a standard of minimum 60. Why go backwards? You either improve performance further or offer much higher fidelity for the same frame target with each new generation of hardware IMHO.

Also, the coin has 2 sides. You mention those who hate on RTX due to nVidia being the owner of it. What about those who will defend RTX due to nVidia being the owner of it? Both sides can't seem to look objectively at the topic and admit when something is either positive or negative about something they "hate" or "love". I personally dislike nVidia a lot but as a company based on it's choices and decisions. Not the actual talent inside the company who creates the tech, those people I have mad respect for.

DarrenM343 · 3 Nov 2019 at 13:14

Ian Evey said:
I agree, if there was a gtx 2080 for £499 it would be a massive seller. If people cannot live without rtx then I have no problem them buying it, but I won’t ever say it is worth the extra money for it on the 20xx cards.

That's what it all comes back to (hate etc) - pricing

. Unfortunately the sheer number of people frequently raising issue with it, including today, a year on, is because people wanted the GPU's and therefore helps justify Nvidia;s pricing. They'd not give a damn about the overpriced products otherwise.
There was of course zero competition both from the performance aspect of the top end 20 series or the RT side of things. I don't think anybody thought they were a good price but if you wanted one, you had to pay up. We're entitled to nothing on our terms (a good price

) especially when zero competition exists for something.
It'd be stupid to hate nvidia for the 20 series. That's business. We'd all do the same in the same position (a superior product with huge demand and no competition - £££££)

CuriousTomCat · 3 Nov 2019 at 13:39

DarrenM343 said:
How have they failed at it? It's just very early technology. Failing at something is completely different.
Important technology starts somewhere and it has to be put out there for people to use which then helps develop it further. Electric cars. First manned space craft and the huge list goes on. new tech is ever perfect from the get go, or even that good a lot of the time.
Release it onto developers when the hardware is much further advanced brings it's own problems. They basically wouldn't implement it well in games due to lack of experience/knowledge of it.

Anyone remember using a 14.4 modem and praying that the server you were downloading from supported the resumption of downloads and spending hours downloading stuff for your internet connection to fail and having to restart from the beginning? The internet in some ways was pretty **** back then due to slow performance of connections. Servers were frequently down too. Even emails didn't always turn up.

Next gen RT will be where it is partly due to the 2000 series GPU's, learning from it (NV and developers) and further R&D. It's not all about hardware, there's skills, supporting software all improving/evolving around what's available now.

RTX has been out for a whole year now. It would be a sucess if there was about 500 RTX games and they ran on the full range of hardware from a 1650 up to a 2080ti. Instead, there's perhaps 5 RTX games and they had to remove it from low end hardware so I'd call that a failure.

When Blu ray was new technology for example, there was a lot more than 5 blu ray films after 12 months.

How can anybody call a technology with 5 titles to be a success? Explain? It's out of reach from the average consumer who buys something like a 1660ti. That's the level of hardware that the average consumer buys. Yet it doesn't have RTX.

DarrenM343 · 3 Nov 2019 at 13:49

it's 5 titles more than zero titles. It's the start of a decent move forward towards much more realistic games to come. The 20 series and NV have created the foundations for that. Developers are now learning how to implement/use/optimise the technology right now (not in 2-4 years time) How is that a failure?
Different ways of looking at it. Love it or hate it (and most hate it due to pricing atm), it's here to stay. In 10+years it'll probably be like tessellation, that is, nobody even talks about it anymore - but it'll be there

.

Lets ignore RT completely for the moment too. Nothing else even matches the raw performance of the 2080 Ti over a year after release. While this isn't what the discussion about - NV have been miles ahead with the top end 20 series even ignoring the RT capabilities.

opethdisciple · 3 Nov 2019 at 14:28

The AMD boys will be signing a different tune once AMD have RT support on their cards.

People dismiss stuff as a defence to not having access to it.

</thread>

4K8KW10 · 3 Nov 2019 at 14:38

DarrenM343 said:
it's 5 titles more than zero titles. It's the start of a decent move forward towards much more realistic games to come. The 20 series and NV have created the foundations for that. Developers are now learning how to implement/use/optimise the technology right now (not in 2-4 years time) How is that a failure?
Different ways of looking at it. Love it or hate it (and most hate it due to pricing atm), it's here to stay. In 10+years it'll probably be like tessellation, that is, nobody even talks about it anymore - but it'll be there .

Lets ignore RT completely for the moment too. Nothing else even matches the raw performance of the 2080 Ti over a year after release. While this isn't what the discussion about - NV have been miles ahead with the top end 20 series even ignoring the RT capabilities.

opethdisciple said:
The AMD boys will be signing a different tune once AMD have RT support on their cards.

People dismiss stuff as a defence to not having access to it.

</thread>

Raytraced games is to PC as ECC memory is to PC.
You can achieve a result which for the gamers won't be different than when without using them.

You just know that you spend a certain amount of CPU/GPU time to process something which is not needed for your use case.

bru · 3 Nov 2019 at 14:41

If it was AMD that had brought us RTX and it was priced at £300 instead of what it is, people wouldn't be slating it at all. Which is you are all hating it because of the price and it is connected to NVidia.

ljt · 3 Nov 2019 at 14:55

DarrenM343 said:
That's what it all comes back to (hate etc) - pricing . Unfortunately the sheer number of people frequently raising issue with it, including today, a year on, is because people wanted the GPU's and therefore helps justify Nvidia;s pricing. They'd not give a damn about the overpriced products otherwise.
There was of course zero competition both from the performance aspect of the top end 20 series or the RT side of things. I don't think anybody thought they were a good price but if you wanted one, you had to pay up. We're entitled to nothing on our terms (a good price ) especially when zero competition exists for something.
It'd be stupid to hate nvidia for the 20 series. That's business. We'd all do the same in the same position (a superior product with huge demand and no competition - £££££)

I agree it was mainly down to a new pricing structure. Myself included. I thought they were overpriced, and as they are a "want" item, rather than "need" I stuck to my principals and never bought one, despite having the money available. That's just how I work, if something suddenly rockets in price just because they can price it higher, if it's not something I need to live then I won't buy it, that applies to anything in life.

With regards to ray tracing as a technology I certainly don't hate it, but I don't think it was ready for prime time this early. We were finally starting to progress from 1080p 60Hz screens, moving into 1440p, 4k and high refresh rates of 240Hz and beyond. Now if you want ray tracing running at these new higher native resolutions and high refresh rates (without trickery like DLSS) you simply can't. It's now reset back to 1080p 60Hz. The technology should have been researched and progressed behind the scenes to a point where when it's finally released, it works at the current higher native resolutions and high refresh rates we've finally begun to accustom to. In summary: release ray tracing when it's performance matches that of it's raster performance for the card it's intended for, without the need to trickery like DLSS - i.e;

RTX 2060 series raster performance is capable of 1080p 144Hz, or 1440p 60Hz - so ray tracing on that card should allow native RT at those resolutions/hz to compliment it's raster performance.
RTX 2070 series raster performance is capable of 1080p 240Hz or 1440P 144hZ - Ray tracing should match that
RTX 2080 series raster performance is capable of 1440p 144Hz or 4k 60hz - Ray tracing should match

Dirk Diggler · 3 Nov 2019 at 15:37

opethdisciple said:
The AMD boys will be signing a different tune once AMD have RT support on their cards.

People dismiss stuff as a defence to not having access to it.

</thread>

You think it's only "AMD boys" that have no interest in RTX? :confused:

bru said:
If it was AMD that had brought us RTX and it was priced at £300 instead of what it is, people wouldn't be slating it at all. Which is you are all hating it because of the price and it is connected to NVidia.

If my Gran had balls, she'd be my Grandad. :rolleyes:

nashathedog · 3 Nov 2019 at 15:43

String said:
If my Gran had balls, she'd be my Grandad.

Not necessarily... :eek:

TNA · 3 Nov 2019 at 16:28

bru said:
If it was AMD that had brought us RTX and it was priced at £300 instead of what it is, people wouldn't be slating it at all. Which is you are all hating it because of the price and it is connected to NVidia.

Lol. So nothing to do with the lack of games, lack of difference it makes currently vs games like Crysis made to image quality then?

By dismissing this you are acting the same as the behavior you despise, just from the other side of the fence.

Why can't people just say it as it is? Sure you do have a point that it being expensive and it being Nvidia has played a big role in this, but there is more to it than that bro.

It is so obvious with posts like this to tell who is pro nvidia and pro amd, you guys need to take a page out of Gregster's book and "swing both ways"

opethdisciple · 3 Nov 2019 at 18:08

Regardless, Ray Tracing is not an Nvidia thing. It's part of the DXR API.

It's just that Nvidia have gone first with their implementation of it.

TNA · 3 Nov 2019 at 18:17

opethdisciple said:
Regardless, Ray Tracing is not an Nvidia thing. It's part of the DXR API.

It's just that Nvidia have gone first with their implementation of it.

Yep

4K8KW10 · 3 Nov 2019 at 18:27

opethdisciple said:
Regardless, Ray Tracing is not an Nvidia thing. It's part of the DXR API.

It's just that Nvidia have gone first with their implementation of it.

Err, afaik AMD and nvidia, and intel do propose to Microsoft, so it's not a MS' thing, for certain.

It's an nvidia's thing.

sideways14a · 3 Nov 2019 at 18:28

I have seen no reason to upgrade my 1080ti which does everything i need it to do well.
RTX is... a novelty at the moment and has added unnecessary cost and complexity to the 2xxx series cards that they simply have not been able to justify to the customer.

If AMD releases a raytracing card that does not cost a fortune, performs well in raster and of course raytracing titles then yeah go on... but if not then they can expect the same abuse as nvidia is getting now.