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Nvidia and HDMI out less colour range

To quote someone else

This is only for nVidia users who are using HDMI on their display.

If you're display supports Full RGB, which most do, you may notice you aren't getting the right colors and the blacks don't seem so black and the whites don't seem so white. This is because despite under Display->Adjust Desktop Color Settings your digital color format being set at RGB, its actually by default set at Limited RGB, not Full. And you will see there is no option for Full RGB. Don't use ycbcr444 as it will oversaturate reds and magentas.

Full RGB is available only under Video->Adjust Video Color Settings, but this doesn't affect your games, applications, etc. Only videos.

The trick to enable Full RGB for everything is a reg hack, and luckily you can use a tool to do instead
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The option he talks about (and I mentioned above) afaik has now been removed from the drivers and you can only do it via a reg hack - I assume at some point it will be readded to the control panel when bug fixed.
 
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layte said:
WTF is going on in this thread?
yNIATdl.png
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That is for video only.

That does not affect de4sktop/games/etc.

So the colour toggler is still needed.
 
Just posting here to let you know that I completely agree with the frustration in this thread angled towards Nvidia on this one. As a monitor reviewer and somebody who recommends monitors to people (some of which have HDMI as the only digital output) I find it extremely frustrating and inexcusable that Nvidia haven't sorted this out yet.

If you plug in a PC monitor to a PC, you really expect the graphics card to treat it properly and feed it the correct 'Full Range RGB (0-255)' signal. I am sick of having to mention this in monitor reviews, time and time again, in the calibration section. Use that tool that edits the registry or set a custom resolution (which not all games will use) - a completely unnecessary step if Nvidia would just do their job and sort this out.

To add insult to injury it isn't just HDMI this applies to. I recently reviewed the U2414H over DisplayPort and found that its native resolution was listed as an 'Ultra HD, HD, SD’ resolution rather than a 'PC' resolution. And guess what - there is no magical tool to fix this when it happens over DisplayPort! A custom resolution can fix it for some things, but the user just shouldn't have to go through this. I recently emailed a user who was quite happy with their VA monitor (S2440L) but had the upgrade itch. I made them aware of how to correct the colour signal and that itch died down.
 
Over HDMI (and in rare cases DP, especially at 1080p) yes. Because HDMI is getting increasingly popular for monitors this is a real problem.
 
this is where i first heard about it

Nvidia GTX 780 was used on our test system and we tested both DisplayPort and HDMI – with interesting results. When using either DisplayPort or HDMI the GPU sent out the wrong colour signal (‘Limited Range RGB 16-235’ instead of ‘Full Range RGB 0-255’). This reduced gamma, skewed white point, hugely impacted contrast and simply gave everything a washed out look. We are quite used to seeing this with Nvidia GPUs connected via HDMI as that is their default behaviour – treat the connected device as an HDTV. But we aren’t used to seeing this over DisplayPort which is currently a PC-only output. We tested the ‘MiniDP’ port as well as the full sized DP port using both DP 1.1 and DP 1.2. The screenshot below shows that the native resolution of the monitor (1920 x 1080) is listed under ‘Ultra HD, HD, SD’ as ‘1080p, 1920 x 1080 (native) when connected by DisplayPort. This list of resolutions is designed for output in RGB 16-235 to devices such HDTVs.


Resolutions in Nvidia Control Panel designed for HDTVs
The resolution should instead be listed under ‘PC’ as ‘1920 x 1080 (native)’, but as shown below it isn’t.


The PC resolutions list lacks the native 1920 x 1080
This can be rectified for both DisplayPort and HDMI by creating a custom resolution with a 59.999Hz refresh rate. This will be treated by any application* as 60Hz but uses the correct Full Range RGB 0-255 colour signal. The process for setting this up is shown in the video below.





*Some games seem to ignore custom resolutions and will instead revert to using the default Limited Range RGB 16-235. That is why a preferred method for correcting the colour signal over HDMI is to use this utility. You just run the .exe file included in the .zip and click the button at the top right which is labelled ‘Set Full Range (0-255)’. You then simply restart your computer.


Nvidia RGB Full Range Toggler
Unfortunately this utility doesn’t do anything to the DisplayPort signal. We only had one U2414H with us for testing, but suspect that running them in ‘Surround’ using the MST/Daisy Chain capability of the monitor will use the correct signal as well because the resolution used (5760 x 1080) is PC only. If not a solution would be to use HDMI ports (or DVI ports using a DVI to HDMI cable) on the GPU(s). We simply used the HDMI connection and the utility to correct the colour signal (universally – even for games that ignore custom resolutions) and the difference in gamma, colour depth and contrast compared to an uncorrected signal was remarkable. AMD GPU users don’t have to worry about this and should be able to use DisplayPort or HDMI quite happily.
 
THC_SsSsSnake said:
so don't all monitors have the option for DVI input?
the problem seems to arise with HDTV's in this case that have no DVI input,is this correct.?
thanks
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DVI inputs are relatively rare on monitors these days. Using a converter cable doesn't help because the GPU recognises that the signal ends up as HDMI and decides to mess things up with the colour signal all the same. Most HDTVs are designed to use this limited range colour signal and compensate for it by other means, but many monitors aren't. I've only found acceptable 'Limited Range RGB' performance on some Samsung models that only feature HDMI but they're the exception.

And it seems you first heard about the issue on my U2414H review then? Despite me grumbling about this a lot I haven't actually taken it up with Nvidia yet. I might do that and see what they say. I know they are quite reactive to complaints from gaming communities usually so if anybody else wants to direct them over to this thread then feel free. :)
 
Eh? Dvi rare on monitors?
Just looked at the monitors section here and cant find a single monitor without one, must be some but the vast majority have

And if its for PC use, why not use DP?
 
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PCM2 said:
DVI inputs are relatively rare on monitors these days. Using a converter cable doesn't help because the GPU recognises that the signal ends up as HDMI and decides to mess things up with the colour signal all the same. Most HDTVs are designed to use this limited range colour signal and compensate for it by other means, but many monitors aren't. I've only found acceptable 'Limited Range RGB' performance on some Samsung models that only feature HDMI but they're the exception.

And it seems you first heard about the issue on my U2414H review then? Despite me grumbling about this a lot I haven't actually taken it up with Nvidia yet. I might do that and see what they say. I know they are quite reactive to complaints from gaming communities usually so if anybody else wants to direct them over to this thread then feel free. :)
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Oh I didn't realise that was you.nice job.!!
I am suprised you say it's uncommon to have a dvi input,I was under the impression that's the 1st option.
So would a sony Bravia wd653 via hdmi be better colours etc than a monitor doing HDMI?
 
andybird123 said:
Eh? Dvi rare on monitors?
Just looked at the monitors section here and cant find a single monitor without one, must be some but the vast majority have

And if its for PC use, why not use DP?
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THC_SsSsSnake said:
Oh I didn't realise that was you.nice job.!!
I am suprised you say it's uncommon to have a dvi input,I was under the impression that's the 1st option.
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DP is great for PC use, if it's there. But again there are too many monitors that don't provide a DP input.

It used to be a given that a monitor would have a DVI input. Now there is an increasing trend towards HDMI as the only digital input on PC monitors, particularly for lower priced models. That's because it is multi-device and can be used with PC, games consoles, Blu-ray players etc. DVI also takes up more space and many manufactures go for a quite minimalist design. Some of the most popular and relatively newly released models lack DVI.

Here is a small (and I mean small) subset of examples for you of monitors released recently where HDMI is the only digital input. Just a couple of upcoming models added as well for interest:

Acer S235HL
Acer S236HL
Acer S276HL
ASUS MX239H
ASUS MX279H
ASUS VX239H
ASUS VX279H
ASUS VN247H
ASUS VN248H
AOC i2367Fh
AOC i2367Fm
AOC e2243Fw2
AOC e2343Fw2
AOC e2461Fwh
AOC i2757Fm
Dell U2414H (*DP has the same issue so I'm including this - and no DVI on this one)
Dell S2240L
Dell S2340L
Dell S2440L
LG 23MP75HM
LG 27MP75HM
LG 24MP76HM
LG IPS234V
LG IPS237L
LG IPS277L
LG 27EA73LM
Samsung S22B300H/350H
Samsung S23B300H/350H
Samsung S24B300H/350H
Samsung S27B300H/350H
Samsung S24B750V
Samsung S27C750V
Samsung S22C350H
Samsung S23C350H
Samsung S24C350H
Samsung S27C350H
Samsung S23C570H
Samsung S24C570H
Samsung S27C570H
Samsung S27C590H
Samsung S24C750P
Samsung S27C750P
Samsung S24D360
Samsung S27D360
Samsung S24D390
Samsung S27D390

... And loads of others. Plenty more from the above manufacturers and also BenQ, Philips and ViewSonic models. But I got bored by this point. :p

I'm not arguing that DVI is 'dead' or that there aren't monitors out there with alternatives such as DVI and/or DP. But I follow trends like this very closely for my website and all too often end up recommending/reviewing models that are 'HDMI only'. And along with that goes explanation and for the users inconvenience that is simply not acceptable and something that Nvidia should sort out!

THC_SsSsSnake said:
So would a sony Bravia wd653 via hdmi be better colours etc than a monitor doing HDMI?[
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If you're looking at an uncorrected colour signal on an Nvidia GPU, most likely yes. The colours just become completely washed out and contrast is destroyed by an incorrect 'Limited Range RGB' colour signal on a monitor. And to quickly answer your last question, you'd have to reapply the 'fix' any time you install new graphics drivers let alone Windows. There are definitely enough 'HDMI only' monitors out there (and this number will just increase) that it would help all involved if Nvidia would sort this out in their drivers.
 
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Weird, like I said, looking at actual monitors in the big retailers, certainly the ones you wouldnbe interested in for gaming, they all seem to have Dvi

I looked up a few from your list and they came up as discontinued :D
 
andybird123 said:
Weird, like I said, looking at actual monitors in the big retailers, certainly the ones you wouldnbe interested in for gaming, they all seem to have Dvi

I looked up a few from your list and they came up as discontinued :D
Click to expand...

Most of those are current models. As I said it's a small sub-set and those that have been discontinued have usually been replaced with a similar DVI-less model. Fact is DVI used to be a given on a monitor. Now it isn't. Many very recently released monitors simply don't have DVI. A lot of the top-selling models on major retailers aren't actually particularly new releases. I follow new and future release trends very closely and this is something that has struck me. Even worse, this is a trend that will continue for reasons I've stated already - and more so when HDMI 2.0 is adopted as a 'do all' connection.

But it depends what monitors you're looking at. 120Hz? 144Hz? WQHD? They're all likely to have DVI and/or DP so users can readily use their full capabilities. Fully adjustable models tend to have a nicer range of ports as well. But 1080p models with IPS panels are becoming increasingly ubiquitous and have frequent refreshes from the major manufactures. More often than not they only have HDMI! Look at some very popular modern models like the ASUS MX239H, ASUS MX279H (plus VX models with H suffix), LG's upcoming IPS models I included in my list and any of Samsung's 1080p PLS models (including upcoming ones included in the list). Only HDMI, whack on MHL capability to keep the consumer happy. Ironically it's these models where the Limited Range RGB signal is particularly noticeable and insulting.

It isn't really about numbers, but, the fact is there are and will increasingly be an abundance of DVI-less monitors or monitors that only have HDMI as a digital output. This affects enough people that it would be very beneficial if Nvidia got off their backside and fixed their default driver behaviour. They've kept things the same way in their driver since HDMI was first on the scene as something of an HDTV connection. It is increasingly making its way onto PC monitors and increasingly becoming the only digital option available on monitors. It's high time Nvidia sorted this out.
 
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I have my 780 hooked up to my main screen Acer 21" via HDMI - DVI and then my second screen a TV/PC hooked up with the DVI-DVI and the TV/PC screen looks so much better, colours look full and viabrant.

This explains it, thanks for the link eyetrip doing it now! Hopefully see results.
 
As I mentioned previously DVI to HDMI doesn't help. The GPU treats the signal as HDMI.
 
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