Nvidia Explains Why Their G-Sync Display Tech Is Superior To AMD's FreeSync

D.P. · 25 Mar 2015 at 18:38

shankly1985 said:
Fact one ghosting isn't from VRR do your research man..
Fact two increasing brightness doesn't increase shadow detail at all it washes them out. Making things easier to see isn't making the IQ better..

The lower you can get that brightness while keeping in the RGB range is better.

FACT 1: VRR stops the anti-ghosting technologies of LCD screens from working!
FACT2: Shaodw detail is clipped on most LCD monitors without good calibration by an external colorimitor. Increasing brightness will show more shadow detail.

shankly1985 · 25 Mar 2015 at 18:40

D.P. said:
FACT 1: VRR stops the anti-ghosting technologies of LCD screens from working!
FACT2: Shaodw detail is clipped on most LCD monitors without good calibration by an external colorimitor. Increasing brightness will show more shadow detail.

It doesn't Haaa increasing the brightness to much gives you washed out blacks. Yiu end up with a muddy gray image.

Ayahuasca · 25 Mar 2015 at 18:42

shankly1985 said:
No am now using it around 70% that was before I use test pattern for brightness.. All I changed at that time was contrast.

Even 70 is still really bright and I bet nowhere near what we'll see in the proper calibration tests. Each screen is slightly different but not that different.

It's just you keep mentioning yours is properly calibrated when it isn't.

D.P. · 25 Mar 2015 at 18:43

Ayahuasca said:
Nah I think that name will be reserved as a nickname for freesync if future monitors keep showing it.

It's funny how I'm the only one alongside the review video on here to show it. Yet everyone saying their screen doesn't have it can't upload the video to prove it.

TBH, not everyone's eyesight is very good. Just like some people can't see compression artifacts in DVDs while others can, some people never saw ghosting when watching sports on early LCD TVs, some people could. Modern monitors correct for ghosting, but that doesn't work with VRR.

Also some people interpret ghosting as motion blur .

Ayahuasca · 25 Mar 2015 at 18:46

D.P. said:
TBH, not everyone's eyesight is very good.

Well the last time I was at the optician my vision was described as near enough perfect. I can understand some people can't see it but a video like the one I did would still show it for those of us who can.

humbug · 25 Mar 2015 at 18:57

D.P. said:
Yes there are things Nvidia can do to reduce ghosting

All modern monitors have technologies that reduce ghosting, these technologies don't work with VRR because they don't know when or how the next frame will render -the GSYNC module knows the timings and so can correct for Ghosting. Freesync can't do that currently because they are missing the necessary hardware.

Thats Nvidia marketing speak doing its job right there.

This is a myth.

With AMD FreeSync™ technology, an AMD Radeon™ graphics card directly controls display timings. Direct control eliminates the need for polling or waiting on the display, which could impact latency and performance.

Upon connecting a AMD FreeSync™ technology-enabled monitor to a compatible AMD Radeon™ graphics card, the minimum and maximum times between the display of new frames (the vblank period) is exposed to the GPU via DisplayPort Adaptive-Sync. Because the minimum/maximum vblank period is known to the graphics card, successive frames will intelligently be sent within those boundaries. Predictive or speculative timing is not required under this model, and the GPU will adjust the display's refresh rate to match the current frame rate.

If an upcoming frame is delivered outside of the monitor's supported vblank period, that frame will be immediately presented on-screen when available to ensure the fastest possible screen update.

http://support.amd.com/en-us/search/faq/226

Free-Sync does not need the G-Sync Module because with Free-Sync the GPU knows where and when the frames are. AMD's GPU dictate the Screens Timings.

Nvidia need that G-Sync module because without the VESA standards its GPU does not know where or when the frames are. it is... or rather was a communication issue between ports.

shankly1985 · 25 Mar 2015 at 18:58

Ayahuasca said:
Even 70 is still really bright and I bet nowhere near what we'll see in the proper calibration tests. Each screen is slightly different but not that different.

It's just you keep mentioning yours is properly calibrated when it isn't.

When have I said mine was properly calibrated? Said couple times I have eye balled mine and used test patterns.. I have my brightness bit higher then normal anyway because my room is normally very well lit.

Put up a brightness test pattern and check yours around 70% still keeps the lower detail while keeping the screen nicely lit.

End of the day everyone taste is different when it comes to how your display is setup.. So choose to have there way over the top that's there choice. Me I don't I aim to keep mine within spec.

Ayahuasca · 25 Mar 2015 at 19:02

The very top of this page you mention correct calibration.

How do you know yours is correct without the tools to do so?

D.P. · 25 Mar 2015 at 19:05

humbug said:
Thats Nvidia marketing speak doing its job right there.

This is a myth.

http://support.amd.com/en-us/search/faq/226

Free-Sync does not need the G-Sync Module because with Free-Sync the GPU knows where and when the frames are.

Nvidia need that G-Sync module because without the VESA standards its GPU does not know where or when the frames are. it is... or rather was a communication issue between ports.

You have absolutely no clue what ghosting is do you :rolleyes:

Ayahuasca · 25 Mar 2015 at 19:09

D.P. said:
You have absolutely no clue what ghosting is do you

Looks like he's just went and found some random text from AMD support and quoted it.

None of that has anything to do with why gsync can combat ghosting and why freesync can't (at the moment anyway).

Gregster · 25 Mar 2015 at 19:10

humbug said:
Because Nvidia say it is, these people are clueless. they don't have the intelligence to understand anything let alone investigate it themselves and come to an independent conclusion.

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/tom-pe...seokp_posts_secondary_cluster_res_author_name

LMFAO

Clueless but you know better?

Ayahuasca · 25 Mar 2015 at 19:12

Humbug you should apply for AMD, they clearly need someone like yourself on their team. Maybe you can be their marketing and technical manager to save them further costs.

shankly1985 · 25 Mar 2015 at 19:13

Ayahuasca said:
The very top of this page you mention correct calibration.

How do you know yours is correct without the tools to do so?

Simple by keeping in spec of RGB test patterns.. The only thing using hardware calibration would do better is my colour. Brightness and contrast yiu can get very accurate results using test pattern.
Reminds me I'll after dig out my HD essential that has blue filter in it for colour.

humbug · 25 Mar 2015 at 19:14

D.P. said:
You have absolutely no clue what ghosting is do you

You said "the GSYNC module knows the timings and so can correct for Ghosting. Freesync can't do that currently because they are missing the necessary hardware."

I've just shot yours and Nvidia's G-Sync Module needs for timing down. Edit: sorry not me. AMD did.

Nvidia needs the G-Sync module 'to do what AMD do on the GPU' through the VESA standard Display Port. its exactly why AMD got those standards, so there was no need for an external Module.

D.P. · 25 Mar 2015 at 19:17

Ayahuasca said:
Looks like he's just went and found some random text from AMD support and quoted it.

None of that has anything to do with why gsync can combat ghosting and why freesync can't (at the moment anyway).

exactly, he has just posted some random AMD nonsense that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Ghsoting is a real phenomenon, a motion artifact. Manufactures have been aware of it since they started making LCDS, it was one of the big reasons people stuck to CRTs for gaming. All manufacturers then developed technologies to combat this, typically based on strobes back-lights and black frame insertions. Unfortunately these techniques don't work well with variable refresh rates, the gsync module takes care of this. Freesync can't do this because it is not enabled as hardware in the monitor so cannot control the backlight strobing properly.

Ayahuasca · 25 Mar 2015 at 19:19

Humbug I suggest you read this post from PCM2:

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=27814590&postcount=369

Quite clear nVidia have worked with the monitors their GSYNC modules are in to get the best from them.

So far it looks like AMD have left the freesync screens to the manufacturers and we don't know yet whether software alone can combat ghosting.

D.P. · 25 Mar 2015 at 19:21

humbug said:
You said "the GSYNC module knows the timings and so can correct for Ghosting. Freesync can't do that currently because they are missing the necessary hardware."

I've just shot yours and Nvidia's G-Sync Module needs for timing down. Edit: sorry not me. AMD did.

Nvidia needs the G-Sync module 'to do what AMD do on the GPU' through the VESA standard Display Port. its exactly why AMD got those standards, so there was no need for an external Module.

You just simply don't understand that is fine, this is complex subject, but stop digging a grave for yourself.

Of course Freesync know the relevant timing, otherwise it couldn't do anything. But that has absolutely nothing to do with ghosting or how LCD monitors reduce it! The Monitor needs to know when the next frame is coming, with variable refresh rates it can't and it can't know what the Freesync software will do, therefore it can't accurately run the technologies used to reduced ghosting such as backlight strobing. The Gsync module can help the monitor in doing this.

humbug · 25 Mar 2015 at 19:22

D.P. said:
exactly, he has just posted some random AMD nonsense that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Ghsoting is a real phenomenon, a motion artifact. Manufactures have been aware of it since they started making LCDS, it was one of the big reasons people stuck to CRTs for gaming. All manufacturers then developed technologies to combat this, typically based on strobes back-lights and black frame insertions. Unfortunately these techniques don't work well with variable refresh rates, the gsync module takes care of this. Freesync can't do this because it is not enabled as hardware in the monitor so cannot control the backlight strobing properly.

The G-Sync Module does not control the Back/Side Lighting (Strobe Lighting) your just making crap up now.

And even if it did, it is possible to do, Free-Sync can also do it because AMD's equivalent to the G-Sync Module is on AMD's GPU.

Ayahuasca · 25 Mar 2015 at 19:23

humbug said:
The G-Sync Module does not control Strobe lighting, your just making crap up now.

That's not even what he said :rolleyes:

...and you have the cheek to try and insult others intelligence.

shankly1985 · 25 Mar 2015 at 19:23

Gsync also uses software though does it not. The driver is the software the module is the hardware.

Freesync software is the driver the hardware is inside the DisplayPort, and GPU.