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NVidia GameWorks - Is it AMD's fault?
- Thread starter Gregster
- Start date
Immediately saying AMD is to blame for gameworks straight away...
Comparing Gameworks, a middleware package, with the TWIMTBP Developer relation program...
Comparing Gaming evolved, a developer relation program, with Raptor the GPU application...
Going off on a tangent about Mantle...
Although Gameworks code being forced is spot on.
Guy has no idea what he is talking about more than half the time.
Comparing Gameworks, a middleware package, with the TWIMTBP Developer relation program...
Comparing Gaming evolved, a developer relation program, with Raptor the GPU application...
Going off on a tangent about Mantle...
Although Gameworks code being forced is spot on.
Guy has no idea what he is talking about more than half the time.
After quick search, AMD and Nvidia both employ roughly 9000 people fulltime (numbers can vary from source to source). I don't believe for a second AMD doesn't have enough engineers to send to sites.
I don't really know why he's comparing mantle to gameworks. They are 2 different technologies aimed for totally different areas. Quess he had a point, but I missed that.
Overall my feelings about gameworks, is that I do feel AMD will do better in it under dx12 than on dx11. Though I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time. I don't believe tesselation and lack of amd base code optimisation is the key problem. Problem lies in AMD's problem utilizing their gpu's fully under DX11, and addtionional thread 0 hammering ain't gonna make it any easier for them . But I don't wanna go deeper into that.
I don't really know why he's comparing mantle to gameworks. They are 2 different technologies aimed for totally different areas. Quess he had a point, but I missed that.
Overall my feelings about gameworks, is that I do feel AMD will do better in it under dx12 than on dx11. Though I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time. I don't believe tesselation and lack of amd base code optimisation is the key problem. Problem lies in AMD's problem utilizing their gpu's fully under DX11, and addtionional thread 0 hammering ain't gonna make it any easier for them . But I don't wanna go deeper into that.
He made this video because people were saying he was biased towards AMD. So he is playing devils advocate a tiny bit here.
Overall it's a good video and informative. He's earlier videos are also very good. Recommended viewing if your interested in that stuff.
For the people that don't want to watch, don't... your all adults lol. He shows his sources in the video for everything he says and the stuff he doesn't have a source for he admits it.
@Maullier He addresses the intent right away . He made a video a few weeks/months back slating GameWorks and he was immediately called a fan boy and bought out by AMD. This video is more a devils advocate stance and also to highlight AMD are not entirely angels in the matter.
@Dygaza he isn't directly comparing them. He even draws a picture to illustrate where mantle fits in relative to game works (ie mantle is compared to directx, not gameworks, however gameworks is built for directx, not mantle)
Overall it's a good video and informative. He's earlier videos are also very good. Recommended viewing if your interested in that stuff.
For the people that don't want to watch, don't... your all adults lol. He shows his sources in the video for everything he says and the stuff he doesn't have a source for he admits it.
@Maullier He addresses the intent right away . He made a video a few weeks/months back slating GameWorks and he was immediately called a fan boy and bought out by AMD. This video is more a devils advocate stance and also to highlight AMD are not entirely angels in the matter.
@Dygaza he isn't directly comparing them. He even draws a picture to illustrate where mantle fits in relative to game works (ie mantle is compared to directx, not gameworks, however gameworks is built for directx, not mantle)
Last edited:
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
He compares gameworks to TWIMTBP and Gaming Evolved then said Gaming Evolved turned into Raptor... he hasn't got a clue what he's talking about. Those are fundamentally different things, in no way did TWIMTBP turn into gameworks nor did Gaming Evolved turn into Raptor. To even suggest it makes him an idiot.
Guy makes an awful lot of sense on what he's actually talking about, and probably isn't what
People are thinking it is just because gregster posted it.
What he doesn't get is Mantle wouldn't be allowed in Nv titles anyway.
+1
Can't blame them for making assumptions with you though
Yer lol, I was expecting it in truth but hoped not.
Brian Burke from nVidia PR states that nVidia called the product of their labor on TWIMTBP, GameWorks.
I think he is trying to say TWIMTBP was a customer awareness and developer relations programme and from it was born GameWorks.
But yeah you have a point with the way it is phrased in his video.
I think he is trying to say TWIMTBP was a customer awareness and developer relations programme and from it was born GameWorks.
But yeah you have a point with the way it is phrased in his video.
Regardless of his intent to be impartial, he should get his facts straight first before starting with the speculation.
This is the same guy who made the "Nvidia GameWorks - Game Over for You" video.
https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18715263&highlight=gameworks
I remember the Nvidia guys panning and calling his analysis nonsense at the time yet somehow he is now a knowledgeable guy according to some of the same people..
https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18715263&highlight=gameworks
I remember the Nvidia guys panning and calling his analysis nonsense at the time yet somehow he is now a knowledgeable guy according to some of the same people..
I remember the Nvidia guys panning and calling his analysis nonsense at the time yet somehow he is now a knowledgeable guy according to some of the same people..
? most people in this thread aren't exactly full of praise for the video...
I remember the Nvidia guys panning and calling his analysis nonsense at the time yet somehow he is now a knowledgeable guy according to some of the same people..
]
Like who? Pretty much everyone including me has said he has got things wrong.
Well I've watched the video, but deliberately not read the thread 'yet', so here are my thoughts on it.
It is quite an interesting look at things and certainly most sane people would agree that the position that AMD find themselves in right now, is down to decisions AMD made a few years before. Now as for blaming Gameworks on AMD, well that is a stretch, but I do agree that their decision to abort the Mantle program, was probably a bad one. but of course hindsight is a fantastic thing, I mean I probably should have read the thread, to see what direction it has taken before posting.
I expect loads of NVidia fanboy makes an AMD bashing video comments, which is strange because the scotish one generally comes across as a more of an AMD fan in most of his content.
It is quite an interesting look at things and certainly most sane people would agree that the position that AMD find themselves in right now, is down to decisions AMD made a few years before. Now as for blaming Gameworks on AMD, well that is a stretch, but I do agree that their decision to abort the Mantle program, was probably a bad one. but of course hindsight is a fantastic thing, I mean I probably should have read the thread, to see what direction it has taken before posting.
I expect loads of NVidia fanboy makes an AMD bashing video comments, which is strange because the scotish one generally comes across as a more of an AMD fan in most of his content.
Well AMD knew in the end that Nvidia would more than likely not want to work with AMD on Mantle. So like they said, they would either continue working on it or give it to an open initiative. And in the end chronus received it and we now have Vulkan.
So in the end it was still a Win for the Mantle initiative, just not in the form that it could have been in the end if Nvidia had decided to work with AMD.
NVidia working with AMD, and AMD working with NVidia is a bit of a pipe dream that we will probably never see happen, seeing as they are direct rivals.
Personally I do feel that aborting/changing direction on mantle was a mistake, seeing as they had gone down that route to begin with. Now of course that decision (to start down the mantle path in the first place) is a whole different question, whether they should have or not, well as has been said, hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Personally I do feel that aborting/changing direction on mantle was a mistake, seeing as they had gone down that route to begin with. Now of course that decision (to start down the mantle path in the first place) is a whole different question, whether they should have or not, well as has been said, hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 9 Nov 2009
- Posts
- 25,754
- Location
- Planet Earth
It is technically AMD's fault since they are in all the consoles,and it wouldn't surprise me Nvidia was pretty worried about it,so needed to make sure AMD did not get one up over them.
If you go back about 8 years there is this interesting page in the GT200 review about DX10 and DX10.1 made by Anandtech:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2549/7
So,that is what Nvidia thought of 8 years ago. This is when AMD hadn't released the HD4000 series or the Phenom II yet and were billions in debt too.
It might be why that THREE Nvidia sponsored titles,ie, Rise of Tombraider,ARK and Project Cards have missing in action DX12 updates too,despite the devs being very enthusiastic initially about them.
So basically Gameworks is the response by Nvidia for AMD being in the consoles,and potentially decent DX12 performance on the AMD side IMHO,especially in the range under the GTX980TI and Titan X.
If you go back about 8 years there is this interesting page in the GT200 review about DX10 and DX10.1 made by Anandtech:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2549/7
So,that is what Nvidia thought of 8 years ago. This is when AMD hadn't released the HD4000 series or the Phenom II yet and were billions in debt too.
It might be why that THREE Nvidia sponsored titles,ie, Rise of Tombraider,ARK and Project Cards have missing in action DX12 updates too,despite the devs being very enthusiastic initially about them.
So basically Gameworks is the response by Nvidia for AMD being in the consoles,and potentially decent DX12 performance on the AMD side IMHO,especially in the range under the GTX980TI and Titan X.
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Soldato
- Joined
- 1 Apr 2010
- Posts
- 3,034
Good video and I have to agree that AMD should have stuck with Mantle as it was a great selling point for them.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
Gameworks has nothing to do with the consoles, nothing and having a clean sweep of all consoles and Gameworks aren't remotely comparable.
Gameworks is just an umbrella for stuff Nvidia was doing and things they added. Physx is part of gameworks. They more things they added the more it made sense to market it under a banner rather than have to recite a list of names every time someone mentioned them. Gameworks is a response to abbreviation and saving time, nothing else.
Nvidia has been paying devs to remove features or use ones that work less well with the competition for a decade or more, it's what they do.
As for Mantle being aborted... lol, from day one anyone with a little bit of sense knew exactly where AMD was going with it. Establish an API, prove it works, add support for some cards to prove it works, release a final version and then hand it off to a group to control it. I said literally within days of it being talked about that would be the end goal. AMD discontinued direct Mantle support once they literally handed it to OpenGL and let MS have a look at it. They stopped massive development on it the second it achieved what it was set out to do, cause an open standard move to a significantly better API.
Mantle achieved what it was supposed to entirely, it brought around a complete industry wide shift in gaming API support. What would they do with Mantle today... get MS and Khronos to make a new low level API.... oh wait.
Yes IF both companies refused to make a low level API AND Nvidia refused to take part in Mantle even if it was renamed and passed off to a third party for control then AMD would have continued Mantle. That was the last possibility and worst case scenario.
Everything AMD do, absolutely everything, is focused on furthering gaming for all gamers, supporting industry standards, supporting open standards and open source where appropriate. There is not even a question that AMD's first choice was for Mantle to cause an industry reaction to bring better APIs to improve gaming, Mantle couldn't have done any better.
