OcUK & Cutters Rolling Road Day 19 @ Powerstation (Tewksbury) - Saturday April 25th 2015!!

[Gibbo]

Gibbo is the running order going to be pretty much as per the list in the OP? If not I'd appreciate an early spot if possible

I shall sort it tomorrow.

I don't mind putting some people near the top if they have genuine reasons for getting away quick, but this is a day event so people need to realise it shall be a busy day with a lot of hanging around.

 

[Gibbo]

Hi there

Here is the running order? Missed anyone and if your not coming, let me know now please so were not looking for you on the day.


NathWraith Mazda 3 Turbo MPS
MRK BMW E46 M3 Manual
Gibbo BMW E46 M3 SMG
Cossie BMW E46 M3
Too Tall Nissan 370Z
Freefaller Nissan 350Z
Howard Mondeo Ecoboost
Jumper118 Mondeo ST TDI
Havana UK BMW M135LCi
Vita BMW 330i
Skaif Corsair VXR Modified
Hurfdurf BMW Z4M
Clarkey Silvia S15
Voxination BMW E92 M3 DCT
S2KIP Honda S2000
Jezer1010 Honda S2000
Sandy's Mazda MX5
Matt Mazda MX5
Vigoro Mazda MX5
Frozennova Mazda MX5
Will Mazda MX5
Scoobydoo69 Impreza
Scoobydoo69 Seat Ibiza FR
Meh? Fiesta MP215
Steeps Toyota GT86
Scaza SLK350
Zeed Honda Integra DC2
JakeyCRX Honda Integra DC2
James KIA Ceed GT
Adeyspec WRX Wagon
BigglesPIP Audi S6 V10 5.2 FSI

 

[Gibbo]

That's fine with me too. We pay on the day right? . Where are we meeting at hopwood services?

YOU PAY ME, IN CORRECT CASH!

 

[Gibbo]

Is 8500rpm safe? Guess not, spun a shell or about too.

 

[Gibbo]

Was that during live mapping it at the end of the day?

Mapping went ok he increased limiter and said Rev it out we did and all was fine. Drove to pub, did a passenger ride but only using 8000rpm but when parked up engine was rattling sounding like bottom engine.

Not risking driving home getting recovered.

 

[Gibbo]

The stock limit on a CSL is 8000. Why is 8500 going to work.

These emailed maps are crazy

Agreed why I said is that safe, was not happy about it but they assured and said Rev it out.

Got guy on message now saying 8500 is fine just said put me back to 8k because clearly not, certainly not on my car.

He going to sort me out with some arp bolts and coated bearings, hopefully no damage is done and can swap out and be good. Will find out when stripped down!

 

[Gibbo]

Gutted for you mate, if it's started to rattle just after revving it that hard, i'd be shocked if it wasn't serious.

I'm guessing it doesn't have ARP rod bolts ?

Andy is with me sounds fine at idle but a little noise under load. Andy says as it is now probably fine but it won't do trip home.

Have to wait and see....

 

[Gibbo]

Bloody hell Gibbo, that seems madness running it to 8500rpm on the rollers, not convinced (hindsight I know mate) that was sensible. Hope it's just a lost Red Bull can rolling around the footwell

Hey man

I completely agree, when I originally specified the map I said stock limiter which is like 8000-8100rpm.

We ran the car, the guy live tuning the car said pretty good result(379BHP), but top-end looks down. So we ran again on same tune, but car was hot and heat soaked and it made 360BHP and the guy was monitoring car values and we were giving him AFR info with Andy saying it's pig rich, very safe.

So he wrote a new file and sent it over and both me an Andy were like that seemed to rev much higher, it made 362BHP. The tuner then sent a new file and I told Andy do not exceed 8000rpm as simply no need, this second tune had better fuelling and was upto 368BHP.

Tuner then sent last file and said rev it out, I asked what is limiter and he replied 8500. I responded are you sure, is it safe, he was like yes we set them all like this and had no issues. So Andy took it to limiter, made 362BHP and was a bit richer again.

So tuner said go back to tune before as that seems best, and the drive from Powerstation to pub the car was an absolute beast, it was even pulling the V8 M3 it's such a damn quick car. All seemed fine, took Voxination for a run again drove gorgeous and so strong but pulling into car park the rattle of doom was there.

Just pulled it of the RAC truck and now it's silent no rattle at all at startup and very faint rattle with very gentle rev when the revs fall, so switched off.

But neither me or Andy requested a higher rev limit, we were both against it. Tuner is saying he has literally 100's of cars and Evolve map them on the dyno as high as well which they do in fairness. But I just said well I never asked for a high limit and well you now have your first failure.

He says it's most likely a shell was already worn or oil pump is on it's last legs and this just highlighted it, but I said seems to much a coincidence. Anyway tuner has offered to help out with supplying ARP bolts and new coated shells which is pretty fair. I'll also throw a new oil pump in as well and just hoping that is all it needs and it's not spun anything, fingers crossed.

 

[Gibbo]

In all fairness, why rev it out that far if you weren't happy?

That said, unlucky though, and a nice gesture from the tuner.

They told us to because we stopped revving it out that far.

 

[Gibbo]

Maybe this is a bad idea, but I'm of to buy an engine support beam and am gonna start stripping down the car in the drive........



Anyone local to Stoke who knows what their doing willing to give a hand should I get stuck?

 

[Gibbo]

Gibbo - Car was nuts as per usual, very hard to keep with in convoy! Thanks for the ride and hope the rattle doesn't prove to be worse than we
]

Yeah hope so and yeah the car absolutely flies, but having 40-50BHP and over 200kg from a regular M3 will do that, on a private road it's pulled to 160ish very quick, very quick car.

Just hope I can fix it and engine is ok, with new final ratio in the thing will be like a missile.

 

[Gibbo]

Hi there

Video of the noise:

This is cold start and gentle revs upto 3000rpm, the noise that is worrying is when the revs fall, but it does seem vastly quieter now to the point its hard to pick up on video....

Everyone think its still bottom end? Got car up on jack stands and am about to start dismantling.

 

[Gibbo]

I've asked a couple of people and they all said very risky in standard form and of no real benefit. Hope it's nothing major.

Like I said I had no interest in the higher RPM, the tuner requested it to do the mapping. Afterwards I would have simply altered the map myself back down to 8000rpm.

Unless I am building a race engine, removing Vanos, uprating, changing cams then like you say there is no point in over 8000rpm.

Though just seen a thread by a guy who now has a 9700rpm E46 M3, that must scream, of course its not standard.

 

[Gibbo]

As I said, the map is far from finished. The manifold had only been on for a few days and it was the first map from Mase, so not really tuned for it yet.

What was the yellow S2000, stock or modified as it got identical power to yours?

 

[Gibbo]

The weather said it would be heavy rain fall today here and 18 degrees and dry yesterday. guess they were operating in opposites mode yesterday

10c and clear skies, perfect for stripping and engine.

 

[Gibbo]

So was this some guy creating maps remotely? Seems as a minimum you should upgrade valve springs if youre moving limits. I get you didnt want the limit raised, tuner should have respected that. Your car is not his bloidy test bed. Having been in your car i know how well it goes and frankly i dont see any map really improving that.

Yes.
The map improved it for sure and I was only driving to around 7500-8000 on the road, like Andy said it was tuned to much on the safe side as was way to rich. So he got fuelling spot on, but the rev limit was raised.

The tuners reasoning was, this is how we do them all and have no reported failures, in fairness loads do seem to commenting oh yeah its great and I push it regular to 8500rpm, I guess I got unlucky, it is just more annoying by the fact I did not want the limit raised anyway.

Guess mine is his first then, but you are right he should have respected the fact we were not interested in beyond 8000.

On the bright side he has offered to sort me out on the bolts and shells.

 

[Gibbo]

Hi there

We might have a false alarm. The exhaust/cat temperature probe was rattling on the whole exhaust system and the hard plastic wire protectors was banging the heatshield.

I re-fitted these and tied them away, the noise when the revs fall has now gone away.

Though I am not convinced but the car seems silent, going to upload some videos of cold start now, warm idle and revving and they are from directly below the engine next to the block. I can only hear ever such a faint knocking which is either bottom end or vanos ticking, just seems like basic engine noise.

When it warmed up it was silent, revved it hard and no strange noises....

Videos uploading...

 

[Gibbo]

I'm surprised - assuming it's not off camera - that it looks like there is no air blower assisting with cooling on the dyno runs....?


And Damn shame Gibbo, seems a poor show especially given you didn't want the limit raised.

Is the tuner offering any fiscal assistance to you? Seems to me it's his raising of the Rev limit and then telling you to rev it out that's resulted in this...

Edit: I hope you've struck lucky with the loose sensor...

Have a listen to these, once engine has run a couple of minutes I can't hear anything untoward, not even with my head next to the bottom of the engine.

Cold start

After couple of minutes running

Blips to 4000rpm

 

[Gibbo]

Sounds a bit knocky on cold but find on warm up. Try change the oil to something a bit thicker to see if it cures that?

Great pics guys.

Don't get thicker than 10-60W and it was fresh in last week.

Hard to know if that is how they sound from cold or not as that is first time I've ever put my head under the car from a cold start, but warm video was literally two minutes later so nothing was upto to temp yet , otherwise could not hear it and these things can sound like a bag of spanners on a good day and hard to tell if its vanos or engine noise.

 

[Gibbo]

Gibbo it doesn't sound right to me, sorry to say. But aren't the engines in M3's incredibly tappety like Honda engines anyway?

Yeah all the tappet noise they make is normal, that's the vanos, typically sound like bag of spanners/sewing machines.

Trying to see if a mate who knows more what to listen for can come take a listen, but putting the temp probe back in the exhaust cured the rattle we were all witnessing when revs dropped after revving.