OcUK Dadsnet thread

[platypus]

That's so interesting. I'm going through this at the moment. Our daughter has just turned four months and while I love her deeply, I find myself frequently frustrated with her. Why does she wake up at 5:30 AM and then not go back to sleep? Why does she turn her head in loads of directions when I'm trying to feed her? Why does she rub her eyes even when it stops her drinking, even when I stop her 20 times in a row?

My wife said I've been short-tempered with the baby and not really myself. I'm trying to work out what's up with me frankly. We had a hard time getting to this point...

We were trying to conceive naturally for about five years, making taking it really seriously for about two years. So, we went for IVF. My wife had some sort of operation to inspect her womb only to find that was all fine. Went private and got pregnant on the first try. I then got a slipped disc, and a few days later, the baby aborted itself. My wife had a DNC, though, so not only did we have this horrific partial miscarriage at home in which we both saw the foetus, but she had to go in for surgery on Boxing Day or the day after (I think). Following that, I just had to tough it out to support my wife the whole time. Life ticked by. My Crohn's struck and I was only liquid drinks for months, or puking after every meal. During that period, we had a second embryo put in and it was, again, successful. We spent that whole time wondering how long it would last - I told her it would be fine and I think I believed it, but perhaps not. September last year, I had about 5% of my intestine removed and since then I've been pretty healthy, though still working on the slipped disc. And in January, our little girl arrived.

In the scheme of things, she's wonderfully behaved. She barely cries, she drinks her milk, ***** regularly, etc, and I am hugely attached to her, but when I have her I just don't know what to do with her. And while my wife looks after her virtually 24/7, my wife is socialising more than she ever did. I feel a bit like I'm looking into a tunnel in which I get up very early, sit with the baby and drink coffee, go to work, get home and look after her/put her to bed, then lay on the sofa and do it all the next day.

Sorry, this is all a big vent, but I've also had enough of my job. I'm wondering if I've had some sort of apathetic/bored burnout, combined with a lack of stress at work that has made me just feel ****. Looking into therapy because I can't be apathetic towards my baby. It's not right. When I think about it, maybe I've just needed a real break to get my **** together, rather than being on this baby/illness treadmill for so long.

Its not a big vent, its life . You don't sound like you need therapy, you just sound like a normal dad to me (that is not to say don't seek out some therapy if you want too, it can be very helpful). Society conditions us that childbirth is this big, massive event that will change our lives, but frankly whilst that is certainly true, its not the moment hollywood would have us believe - for Dads its a pretty big let down (I think). The baby comes and it takes a long time for a dad to bond with it.

As @bigmike20vt said, stick with it. It's not easy but it gets easier. You are in a tunnel at the moment, but just keep steadily driving towards the light. It doesn't matter how much men want to be the primary care giver - believe me I tried with #2 - we cannot replace the bond a baby has with its mother. We can still do a huge amount of really vital stuff, and it will take some time but they start to be fun, and then they start to need their dad. And then they start to be really fun.

I haven't hit the teenage years yet so this advice may well change in four years when I tell you to throw the towel in now .

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Its not a big vent, its life . You don't sound like you need therapy, you just sound like a normal dad to me (that is not to say don't seek out some therapy if you want too, it can be very helpful). Society conditions us that childbirth is this big, massive event that will change our lives, but frankly whilst that is certainly true, its not the moment hollywood would have us believe - for Dads its a pretty big let down (I think). The baby comes and it takes a long time for a dad to bond with it.

As @bigmike20vt said, stick with it. It's not easy but it gets easier. You are in a tunnel at the moment, but just keep steadily driving towards the light. It doesn't matter how much men want to be the primary care giver - believe me I tried with #2 - we cannot replace the bond a baby has with its mother. We can still do a huge amount of really vital stuff, and it will take some time but they start to be fun, and then they start to need their dad. And then they start to be really fun.

I haven't hit the teenage years yet so this advice may well change in four years when I tell you to throw the towel in now .

Thank you. It's not that I haven't bonded with her - I adore her. I don't understand her routine though, and I don't want to mess that up or I will be in big trouble hah.

 

[platypus]

Thank you. It's not that I haven't bonded with her - I adore her. I don't understand her routine though, and I don't want to mess that up or I will be in big trouble hah.

Oh sure, I didn't mean to say that you hadn't nor that dads in general can't, it just won't ever be the same as the mother baby bond. They have some weird unspoken way of communicating that we can't really replicate.

It is all part of lifes rich tapestry. And its great fun .

 

[Haggisman]

as a parent i found this upsetting this morning , I was on my way to work and found a 4 year old boy Cold and Dirty , he was crying i asked him where his mum and dad where he said he had woken up and his mummy was not there.
i took him in to the local bus station thinking that she may have gone to the public toilets , no surprise she wasn't there.
He said he was Hungry i gave him my dinner for the day and got him some drinks called the police who where there within 2 mins. they have taken him in to care.
I am Just amazed that a parent could do this to a child , I know not everyone has the means to look after a child and i know that times are rough but i would give everything to make sure my Kids where safe even if that meant i had to put them in care for a little bit till i could get sorted.

It has truly destroyed me this morning seeing a Boy the same age as mine in a situation like that.

Well done you! The bystander effect is a very real thing and many people would just walk on by thinking it's "someone else's problem", so good work on being "someone else".

Society conditions us that childbirth is this big, massive event that will change our lives, but frankly whilst that is certainly true, its not the moment hollywood would have us believe - for Dads its a pretty big let down (I think). The baby comes and it takes a long time for a dad to bond with it.

I found this a lot quicker with our second, I think the first was such a fundamental change to life that the first few weeks were just adjusting to everything! With our second the bond was there almost from the start (although this may have been partially down to the fact my partner had serious complications throughout the pregnancy and during the birth, and it was touch and go if he'd make it for the first month or so...)

 

[platypus]

Well done you! The bystander effect is a very real thing and many people would just walk on by thinking it's "someone else's problem", so good work on being "someone else".



I found this a lot quicker with our second, I think the first was such a fundamental change to life that the first few weeks were just adjusting to everything! With our second the bond was there almost from the start (although this may have been partially down to the fact my partner had serious complications throughout the pregnancy and during the birth, and it was touch and go if he'd make it for the first month or so...)

Yeah I found it much easier with number two, but then I took 6 months shared parental leave. My advice to anyone in a position to take any SPL is just do it. Its amazing!

And agreed, well done @Fringe !

 

[Yaayuh!]

So my 4 year old has started to ask about death. Which made for a depressing evening.

Getting him ready for bed, he was asking if our cat was going to die, which I explained that he's getting old so inevitably will. Then came the "why" and I explained that's what happens when you get old or sometimes very poorly.

He seemed okay and normal chipper self then before he got in to bed said that he doesn't want to die.

I reassured him all well and good. But man, that was a punch in the feels.

 

[bigmike20vt]

So my 4 year old has started to ask about death. Which is made for a depressing evening.

Getting him ready for bed, he was asking if our cat was going to die, which I explained that he's getting old so inevitably will. Then came the "why" and I explained that's what happens when you get old or sometimes very poorly.

He seemed okay and normal chipper self then before he got in to bed said that he doesn't want to die.

I reassured him all well and good. But man, that was a punch in the feels.

i remember having that chat when my lad was around that age. it was during lockdown and we were on a daily walk going through the grave yard and my lad said he was worried that the people would be cold and lonely in the dark under ground. he then said if he died could he be buried with his muzzy and his teddy so he would not get lonely.

it was gut wrenching to be honest.

i cant remember the name of the books but we got some after that aimed at kids his age to try to help explain death a bit.

 

[Junglist]

That’s not even a conversation I’ve thought about.

Though I think my daughter somewhat understands it as she was there with me in the room when my grandmother passed away.

 

[platypus]

So my 4 year old has started to ask about death. Which made for a depressing evening.

Getting him ready for bed, he was asking if our cat was going to die, which I explained that he's getting old so inevitably will. Then came the "why" and I explained that's what happens when you get old or sometimes very poorly.

He seemed okay and normal chipper self then before he got in to bed said that he doesn't want to die.

I reassured him all well and good. But man, that was a punch in the feels.

My brother dying last year was really tough for our eldest. He still cries about it occasionally now, as admittedly do I.

Our cat will probably be next to go, I feel like that will be easier, but I am dreading - for many reasons - when grandma or grandad go.

 

[Dup]

That's so interesting. I'm going through this at the moment. Our daughter has just turned four months and while I love her deeply, I find myself frequently frustrated with her. Why does she wake up at 5:30 AM and then not go back to sleep? Why does she turn her head in loads of directions when I'm trying to feed her? Why does she rub her eyes even when it stops her drinking, even when I stop her 20 times in a row?

My wife said I've been short-tempered with the baby and not really myself. I'm trying to work out what's up with me frankly. We had a hard time getting to this point...

We were trying to conceive naturally for about five years, making taking it really seriously for about two years. So, we went for IVF. My wife had some sort of operation to inspect her womb only to find that was all fine. Went private and got pregnant on the first try. I then got a slipped disc, and a few days later, the baby aborted itself. My wife had a DNC, though, so not only did we have this horrific partial miscarriage at home in which we both saw the foetus, but she had to go in for surgery on Boxing Day or the day after (I think). Following that, I just had to tough it out to support my wife the whole time. Life ticked by. My Crohn's struck and I was only liquid drinks for months, or puking after every meal. During that period, we had a second embryo put in and it was, again, successful. We spent that whole time wondering how long it would last - I told her it would be fine and I think I believed it, but perhaps not. September last year, I had about 5% of my intestine removed and since then I've been pretty healthy, though still working on the slipped disc. And in January, our little girl arrived.

In the scheme of things, she's wonderfully behaved. She barely cries, she drinks her milk, ***** regularly, etc, and I am hugely attached to her, but when I have her I just don't know what to do with her. And while my wife looks after her virtually 24/7, my wife is socialising more than she ever did. I feel a bit like I'm looking into a tunnel in which I get up very early, sit with the baby and drink coffee, go to work, get home and look after her/put her to bed, then lay on the sofa and do it all the next day.

Sorry, this is all a big vent, but I've also had enough of my job. I'm wondering if I've had some sort of apathetic/bored burnout, combined with a lack of stress at work that has made me just feel ****. Looking into therapy because I can't be apathetic towards my baby. It's not right. When I think about it, maybe I've just needed a real break to get my **** together, rather than being on this baby/illness treadmill for so long.

It's bloody hard being the bloke and it's not really well appreciated. My boys are 6 & 3 now, but when they were in the early stages I had similar struggles. The hardest part was their mum rather than them though as I just expected her to have the answers or I felt like I needed her permission to be their dad. The truth is there's no right or wrong answers to your questions, it's just a bonding thing and sometimes it can just be like that. The big thing for me was using my common sense and getting stuck in without waiting for permission. Do your thing and enjoy what you can.

My advice is be patient. I mean this for scenarios for example: If her head is wiggling while feeding and you're struggling, don't show frustration and don't act like you have somewhere else to be. Just embrace it's going to take a while and focus her attention away and try again later. The same can be said for any routine things with kids like bedtime. If you act like you're in a rush to get out and do what you want to do you're almost always guaranteed to fail. If you go in knowing it'll take a while and you need to

For the 5:30am thing. Again, embrace it. Adjust your routine and just get up with her, leave the other half in bed and go for a walk. You're blessed having a small baby at this time of year with longer daylight hours. I used to just throw mine in the pram, grab the dogs and go for a walk early mornings. We'd watch the world go by most of the time plus was nice to get some time with them before work. Big mental health boost too. You don't need to do much or put big expectations on yourself to entertain them. Play for a bit, let them sleep on you whilst you watch TV, push them around in the pram chatting away, hang out for a coffee/food somewhere, read to them... you get the idea. It might feel pointless doing some of this with a little spud in tow however you're bonding they're getting used to the sights and sounds of the world. It's all part of their development.

 

[platypus]

Also strongly recommend a wrap. Don't spend loads on a super expensive baby carrier, just get a long wrap and learn to tie it. You can take em for a walk whilst they're nuzzled into your chest. Its awesome, and they love it.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

It's bloody hard being the bloke and it's not really well appreciated. My boys are 6 & 3 now, but when they were in the early stages I had similar struggles. The hardest part was their mum rather than them though as I just expected her to have the answers or I felt like I needed her permission to be their dad. The truth is there's no right or wrong answers to your questions, it's just a bonding thing and sometimes it can just be like that. The big thing for me was using my common sense and getting stuck in without waiting for permission. Do your thing and enjoy what you can.

My advice is be patient. I mean this for scenarios for example: If her head is wiggling while feeding and you're struggling, don't show frustration and don't act like you have somewhere else to be. Just embrace it's going to take a while and focus her attention away and try again later. The same can be said for any routine things with kids like bedtime. If you act like you're in a rush to get out and do what you want to do you're almost always guaranteed to fail. If you go in knowing it'll take a while and you need to

For the 5:30am thing. Again, embrace it. Adjust your routine and just get up with her, leave the other half in bed and go for a walk. You're blessed having a small baby at this time of year with longer daylight hours. I used to just throw mine in the pram, grab the dogs and go for a walk early mornings. We'd watch the world go by most of the time plus was nice to get some time with them before work. Big mental health boost too. You don't need to do much or put big expectations on yourself to entertain them. Play for a bit, let them sleep on you whilst you watch TV, push them around in the pram chatting away, hang out for a coffee/food somewhere, read to them... you get the idea. It might feel pointless doing some of this with a little spud in tow however you're bonding they're getting used to the sights and sounds of the world. It's all part of their development.

Thanks for that advice. That's incredibly valuable and I feel weirdly emotional about how much it's hit the spot. The walk in the morning thing sounds excellent - I'm going to give that a go.

With the feeding and the head wiggling, I really have to remember that she's not going to focus instantly. I'm always thinking, well I tell her to be focussed and she's not done it, so that's it. But I have to remember she's a bloody baby and has no idea!

Also strongly recommend a wrap. Don't spend loads on a super expensive baby carrier, just get a long wrap and learn to tie it. You can take em for a walk whilst they're nuzzled into your chest. Its awesome, and they love it.

Hah, she's never liked it. I think when she can face outwards, she'll be a lot happier.

 

[OG]

Thanks for that advice. That's incredibly valuable and I feel weirdly emotional about how much it's hit the spot. The walk in the morning thing sounds excellent - I'm going to give that a go.

With the feeding and the head wiggling, I really have to remember that she's not going to focus instantly. I'm always thinking, well I tell her to be focussed and she's not done it, so that's it. But I have to remember she's a bloody baby and has no idea!



Hah, she's never liked it. I think when she can face outwards, she'll be a lot happier.

You're doing all the right things and your initial post about looking at therapy will be the right call I'm sure. Regardless of how people approach becoming parents there is definitely an unspoken burden on fathers that just feels completely impossible to bring up with the mother of your freshly minted child. I definitely had the mindset of how could this possibly be hard for me when my wife has been pregnant for 9 months, had a traumatic birth and now having to deal with feeding/postpartum everything/adjusting to a new body etc etc etc.

Therapy is a great space to have those conversations and you can definitely (and should!) communicate the same to your partner as well when the time is right but I appreciate it can feel impossible to find the time and space to talk properly about it.

As others have said, be patient and the 'better bit' will start happening sooner than you probably realise. I did struggle not being able to do the things I wanted to do with a child in tow (even something simple like doing some gardening or whatever) but before you know it they'll be out with you and at least showing an interest in what you're doing or happily playing alongside you. For me personally when our kids got to around 8 months or so is when I started enjoying it a bit more and felt like I could actually play with them, if you're into walking or hiking then yes a carrier is a great idea. Facing them forwards when there head stops being so wobbly is great, I can highly recommend getting one of those ridiculous hiking backpacks that you can stick a kid in. I used to go out for 90 minutes or so for a big walk and our kid just slept in it the entire time and so everyone wins... you get some exercise, the kid sleeps and your partner gets some time to herself.

Keep going and keep us updated!

 

[Junglist]

Walks are like a cheat code with babies.

Another +1 for therapy. I was fortunate to have just over a year worth of counselling paid through my old job. Had gone through something relatively traumatic and they decided my best course was therapy. Hated the idea of it at the start but after 2 weeks I loved it and looked forward to it.

It's a shame it's so cost prohibitive to so many people because now I've had it and see the benefits I'd love to recommend it to people but aware that I was fortunate to have it paid for me

 

[ci_newman]

You're doing all the right things and your initial post about looking at therapy will be the right call I'm sure. Regardless of how people approach becoming parents there is definitely an unspoken burden on fathers that just feels completely impossible to bring up with the mother of your freshly minted child. I definitely had the mindset of how could this possibly be hard for me when my wife has been pregnant for 9 months, had a traumatic birth and now having to deal with feeding/postpartum everything/adjusting to a new body etc etc etc.

Therapy is a great space to have those conversations and you can definitely (and should!) communicate the same to your partner as well when the time is right but I appreciate it can feel impossible to find the time and space to talk properly about it.

As others have said, be patient and the 'better bit' will start happening sooner than you probably realise. I did struggle not being able to do the things I wanted to do with a child in tow (even something simple like doing some gardening or whatever) but before you know it they'll be out with you and at least showing an interest in what you're doing or happily playing alongside you. For me personally when our kids got to around 8 months or so is when I started enjoying it a bit more and felt like I could actually play with them, if you're into walking or hiking then yes a carrier is a great idea. Facing them forwards when there head stops being so wobbly is great, I can highly recommend getting one of those ridiculous hiking backpacks that you can stick a kid in. I used to go out for 90 minutes or so for a big walk and our kid just slept in it the entire time and so everyone wins... you get some exercise, the kid sleeps and your partner gets some time to herself.

Keep going and keep us updated!

It's often overlooked but PPD affects men as well as women. Naturally a lot of the healthcare is focused on the mum (and rightfully so for such a traumatic effect on the body) and men are largely just told to suck it up and get on with it, despite both parents going through a massive life change. Thankfully it is starting to get more focus from childcare charities like the NCT:

Postnatal depression in dads and co-parents: 10 things you should know | NCT

It’s understandable that we focus on mums in the postnatal period but let’s not forget the dads and co-parents who also need support.

www.nct.org.uk

 

[Hutchy]

@dirtychinchilla I think the fact you have the back issues on top of a chronic disease is putting you over that edge that another Dad without those extra complications would manage to not get tipped over.​

I hope you can get yourself back into remission soon! I also think once your daughter gets a bit older and starts communicating her needs and feelings to you, as well as developing her own positive personality and traits you can take credit for it will get better.

​

 

[fez]

I found this a lot quicker with our second, I think the first was such a fundamental change to life that the first few weeks were just adjusting to everything! With our second the bond was there almost from the start (although this may have been partially down to the fact my partner had serious complications throughout the pregnancy and during the birth, and it was touch and go if he'd make it for the first month or so...)

I would have thought this is simply the change that comes when you have children already. I didn't care much for other peoples children before I got my own and the more I love and appreciate my own children, the more I generally enjoy interacting with other children. I don't see why that wouldn't be the case for your second child. I think once you have children you are just fundamentally changed.

 

[Haggisman]

I would have thought this is simply the change that comes when you have children already. I didn't care much for other peoples children before I got my own and the more I love and appreciate my own children, the more I generally enjoy interacting with other children. I don't see why that wouldn't be the case for your second child. I think once you have children you are just fundamentally changed.

Yeah, that definitely makes sense!

I also joined our local Scout group as a leader when our eldest started as a Beaver (must be ~7 years ago now! ) which is definitely not something I would have even considered before. It's great, both as bonding with my son, but also very rewarding teaching kids life skills that they are unlikely to get anywhere else (especially when there seem to be so many growing up without decent male role models these days), and giving them experiences they would otherwise miss out on.

I guess part of that "fundamental change" you mentioned (or at least for me) is wanting to make the world a better place in general. Sure it may only be a couple of hours a week and the odd weekend here and there, but if that keeps those kids out of mischief for a while and gives them a positive influence and something worthwhile to do, then it can't be a bad thing.

 

[Desmo]

My advice is be patient. I mean this for scenarios for example: If her head is wiggling while feeding and you're struggling, don't show frustration and don't act like you have somewhere else to be. Just embrace it's going to take a while and focus her attention away and try again later. The same can be said for any routine things with kids like bedtime. If you act like you're in a rush to get out and do what you want to do you're almost always guaranteed to fail. If you go in knowing it'll take a while and you need to

This....A LOT!!!!

Every time we have a bad bedtime or bad dinner time or bad bath time I look back on it and it's because I was in a rush to do something else..... usually to try and sit down and relax for a bit. It just makes everything worse and whilst there ARE times you need to rush, it's never as much as you think it is. Slow down and be patient, even as your kids get older. Give them time.

 

[vail3r]

I've found up to now quite easy. My son turned 1 in March. Recently though I absolutely hate him, I wish I could go back in time and not have him. He's become so difficult, especially for me.

I have him in the morning before nursery for 2 hours, and then 2 hours after nursery before my wife gets home. He just screams all the time and has tantrums it's a nightmare and the time in-between nursery isn't enough time for me to get all my work done so I then end up spending the rest of my evening finishing my work once he's in bed. Combined with extra work at weekends I feel trapped in a horrible dream that just won't end with zero down time.

I never expected parenting to be easy but I didn't realise id feel so miserable