OCUK Official IC Diamond/ Perihelion Test Results

[IC Diamond]

PLEASE READ THOROUGHLY BEFORE TESTING/POSTING YOUR IC DIAMOND OR PERIHELION TEST RESULTS!!!



PLEASE ONLY POST WITH RESULTS WHEN YOU HAVE FULL RESULTS, OTHERWISE YOUR POST MAY NOT BE SEEN BY ALL IF YOU RESERVE THE POST FOR LATER RESULTS WITH IC7. PEOPLE TEND TO GO TO THE NEWEST POST, SO IF YOU WANT IT TO BE SEEN BY ALL, POST YOUR RESULTS ONCE YOU HAVE THEM ALL. ALL OTHER DISCUSSION/SUPPORT POSTS, GO RIGHT AHEAD!!

PLEASE BE SURE TO BENCHMARK YOUR CPU TEMPS WITH YOUR CURRENT TIM AND RECORD YOUR RESULTS BEFORE USING IC7 FOR TESTING. WE NEED BEFORE AND AFTER PLEASE!

ALSO, PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU DON'T CHANGE ANY VARIABLE OTHER THAN THE THERMAL COMPOUND USED FOR BEFORE/AFTER (I.E. SAME VOLTS/CLOCKS, COOLER, AND OTHER HARDWARE)


APPLICATION METHOD


For all those participating in the ICD/Perihelion giveaway, please follow this link to the Innovation Cooling website for more information on the products:

Innovation Cooling

Proper application is the key to this product. The nature and consistency of this product is likely quite different from what most of you are used to in a Thermal Compound. We don't recommend use of traditional methods of applying the TIM like razor blades, lines, Rice size, etc. ARE ALL Big BIG NO NO's. Through extensive end user testing, the best overall application method has been determined to be a pea sized amount directly in the center of the CPU. The TIM should be adequately spread via the down force of the CPU cooler (a sufficient amount of down force will provide best results; minimum 50psi of down force should be the goal for optimum results. please see the Innovation Cooling website for more info). Also, for coolers/surfaces that have many peaks and valleys, it may be beneficial to wet the surface(s) with a small amount of ICD/Perihelion to initially fill the voids in the mounting surfaces...then proceed with recommended application as usual. Please click on the link below for application methodology and shoot me a PM if you have any questions.
Keep in mind, ICD/Perihelion has been formulated with the specific goals of providing superb thermal conductivity with short set times, but also for long term stability and performance without pump/bake out through extended thermal cycling or usage. This stuff is very stable over long periods of time.



Please do feel free to navigate through the whole Innovation Cooling website as there is tonnes of information on there that might prove beneficial.


HOW TO POST RESULTS


THE FORMAT IS AS FOLLOWS (ALL TEMPS IN C):

OPTIONAL INFO: PROCESSOR, VOLTS/CLOCKS, HEAT SINK/COOLING USED, ETC.

Before Compound:
Ambient Temp:
Idle Temp:
Load Temp:

ICD/Perihelion
Ambient Temp:
Idle Temp:
Load Temp:

Added 5/22 - Cure Time- Cure Time averages 2 hours in most situations for sinks with adequate pressure loading with maybe .5C more overnight. Lightly pressure loaded sinks may take a day or more depending on the amount of pressure


If you have any problems or need support, please feel free to post here for now. Remember, proper application and good even heat sink pressure (goal should be minimum of 50psi or more) are crucial for peak performance. Too much or too little compound will impact your results so please do visit the Innovation Cooling website for Application Instructions with images and explanations. For those with direct touch heatpipe coolers, you might want to try wetting the contact surface of the cooler with a tiny amount of ICD to fill any small voids before proceeding with the normal application method.

If anyone has any questions, please feel free to post up. .

*** HEADS UP *** Post # 149

For the people running the test I would recommend using LinX. I have just done a run with Perihelion and noticed the load temps where 5'C better with Noctua NT H1. However after looking at the LinX results you can see that the Noctua NT H1 was infact causing thermal throttling with the time/GFLOP going all over the place. Anything from 31 GFLOP to 48 GFLOPs. Obviously using Primeor .... you would never know and Noctua NT H1 would come out on top.

I am going to let Perihelion bed in some more and re run the test. Interesting, very impressed.

I'm using a pea size as recommended and works very well.

It might be worth adding this to the first post otherwise results could be invalid.

*** HEADS UP ** # 2 post #162


Guys if you are going to use IBT/Linx for testing the compounds, make sure your GFlops values are more or less same in all the tests otherwise your results will be invalid.

For example

MX-3 or any other thermal compound: 33-35GFlops in IBT

IC Diamond: 40-45GFlops in IBT

What will happen is that your temps will be higher in the case of IC Diamond as you are getting higher GFlops values even if IC Diamond is better than MX-3.
So you need to get GFlops values in a similar range for both compounds. So it should be e.g:

MX-3 or any other thermal compound: 43-45GFlops in IBT

IC Diamond: 43-45GFlops in IBT

Consistent/same GFlops values across all tests



Ongoing/preliminary Test Results to Date

 

[IC Diamond]

Introducing myself, Andrew from Innovation Cooling (IC)

I will be cleaning the old TIM off the cpu with a q tip or cotton bud, is this sufficient?

Is the pressure of a waterblock enough to spread the TIM properly? It will be applied while the case is standing up, so I won't be able to put too much pressure.

Thanks

QTIP ,clean rag should be good as long as no lint residue remains.



Good mounting pressure is just good shop practice, especially for heat transfer. Do your best.

IC Perihelion, like ICD is a high viscosity compound, the high viscosity is designed/intended for long term reliability. Perihelion is slightly more sensitive than ICD to pressure requirements. On screw mounted systems the screws are set in a fixed position, when the system is turned on the compound heats up it continues to flow leaving a low pressure overly thick bond line because the screw position does not change.

A re torque after a 10 min warm up on screw mounting systems to close the gap and to optimize performance may be required. This is sort of like a re-torque on the older cars head gaskets after the first 1,000 miles or (?) km's.

Some background here on torque/pressure performance

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=681429

 

[IC Diamond]

Paste is a mechanical function

IC Perihelion, like ICD is a high viscosity compound, the high viscosity is designed/intended for long term reliability. Perihelion is slightly more sensitive than ICD to pressure requirements. On screw mounted systems the screws are set in a fixed position, when the system is turned on the compound heats up it continues to flow leaving a low pressure overly thick bond line because the screw position does not change.

A re torque after a 10 min warm up on screw mounting systems to close the gap and to optimize performance may be required. This is sort of like a re-torque on the older cars head gaskets after the first 1,000 miles or (?) km's.

Some background here on torque/pressure performance

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=681429

From our forum test surveys about 80% of the people sampled were over 50psi. The 20% who did not see a + result were under 50psi or had poor contact. When troubleshooting the dominant or most likely factor is pressure ( more pressure will most times cure contact issues) affecting performance.

Next in order is contact, usually resolved with added pressure and possibly lapping IHS and Sink.

The 3rd mechanical issue is application, better too much than too little. The waste in compound is having to redo your mount and the time spent - many start off with what they are used to like a riced sized amount which has been throughly vetted as insufficient for ICD or Perihelion. Waste of paste and time

Recommended reading

http://innovationcooling.com/ICDtroublshooting.htm


Below is a pressure test on an H50 this pic is part of a series where the guy tried to improve his mount after a equivalent before and after result. Resisting posting the full spread as it takes up a lot of space but screw systems will try the patience of the best mechanics and have gotten both great and marginal results from the H50's. Up to the individual mechanic's skill and persistence.

This mount has a left hand pressure bias with mostly edge contact and with little force applied along with minimal contact.

 

[IC Diamond]

Do you have any data concerning sub-zero performance with either of the TM's? Would be very interested to see some results, and if there are performance dips the colder it gets. Say the difference between a cascade/Dry Ice at -80 and LN2 at -180?

Giglamesh used dry ice in the Gigabyte UK overclocking Contest


Nothing on Perihelion yet


You might want to pre cure the compound for at least a couple of hours. If you apply it and go immediately to sub zero the BLT would probably be too thick.

I ran one test with some ICD at ambient room temp (20C) with a simulated IHS and 2 pieces of glass clamped together with some binder clips @ approx 60 psi . With the paste applied I used a micrometer to gage the Bond line thickness (BLT) at timed intervals. About 2 hours to get 80-90% max, overnight for optimum BLT. Hairdryer might speed it up a bit

with a screw mount you might want to re torque it a couple of times

 

[IC Diamond]

Just arrived, so thought I'd post subjective findings before I test for real

This shows the colour/spread of the compound compared to MX-3, I found they were quite similar in their consistency, with the IC Diamond being a little easier to spread. That said like the MX-3 it does bunch up a little compared to something like AS5.

Some people mentioned abrasiveness, under purely subjective testing, it feels the same as MX-3 when spreading a small amount, and when feeling with fingertips.

I know its not much, but thought it might get the ball rolling!

Looking forward to testing it

Feels the same because particle size is probably close

Most thermal compounds are Liquid sandpaper or lapping compounds by definition.

Light gray compounds are usually/mostly made up of aluminum oxide.

Aluminum oxide is what they make sandpaper out of.....MOHS Hardness scale 9

Diamond on the MOHS hardness scale 10

Copper MOHS 3

To be abrasive you just have to be harder than the material to be cut.

Most thermal compounds have particle sizes in the range of 600 - 800 same as your 600 - 800 sandpaper

http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/scales/grit.html

If you are ambitious you can calculate cutting speeds and material removal between diamond the hardest (cubic boron nitride is actually harder than diamond) and the second hardest aluminum oxide.

For the insignificant speed- distance traveled, light pressures, minuscule time slice You will not see any difference between the two under normal use.

Abrasives have to move to work,

For all compounds- if you are a habitual abuser who reinstalls his sink 20 times a week or constantly rotates the sink under pressure then switch to something less abrasive like a zinc oxide compound .

 

[IC Diamond]

http://hardwarelogic.com/articles.php?id=5379

i know its the best but....

That site was kind enough to host one of our first giveaways. Great crew on the forum at the time, small but energetic and friendly.

Capper who used to own hardwarelogic keyed in on some advantages to IC Diamond for Notebooks started a thread on repasting CPU/GPU's on notebookreview that resulted in sager and a number of other whitebox/SI's people integrating ICD into their products. A number of discussion threads there on repasting if you do a search.

Personally I prefer the field survey's we do over the review cycle. Empirical data from field testing has a long deep history and there are probably few products you use that have not undergone some field study of some such as drug testing, the make up your girl friend uses, marketing tests on food products or as in merchandising, what % are going to buy the blue shoes and how many should we order? it goes on and on.

We sell to a computer hobbiest niche so our interest is the real world results as it relates to them ----What does the average end user see at the desktop? Good, bad, indifferent the data is what it is.....

 

[IC Diamond]

Sadly no paste will come close to any lma.

In order to qualify you have to quantify - What are the theoretical limits of thermal compound performance?

There has been some serious lab work done in the last 20 years by some really good engineers, but you do run into practical limits.

Notes On The Limits Of Thermal Grease Performance

The best possible performance for any thermal grease would be 100% heat transfer from the CPU to the heatsink – which is impossible. We have measured thermal performance for the best possible case – directly soldering the CPU to the heatsink. In this extreme case using a solder joint, the difference between the CPU and the heatsink was 0.5 degrees C.

Based on test results from 391 users among 11 PC Forums, IC Diamond Thermal Compound showed 0.8 – 0.9 C difference between the CPU and heatsink – a difference of only 0.4 C compared to the solder joint.

User results showed other thermal compounds ranging from 1.1 C to 4.7 C difference less performance than IC Diamond, as shown on the performance graph, a difference due to the ingredients in the thermal compound used. Twenty years of thermal compound development have reduced the difference between using a solder joint to about 0.4 C. Further development may reduce this difference by a few tenths of a degree, but for all practical purposes you are at theoretical limits.

 

[IC Diamond]

Hey,

My results using the old spread it out yourself method ( I'm not comfortable trusting a blob to spread itself when you can't see it )

Before

I5 760 @ 4ghz with arctic cooling freezer 7 pro


AS5 IDLE-----------IC Diamond Idle
31-----------------31
27-----------------27
29-----------------29
24-----------------24

AS5 LOAD----------IC Diamond Load
69-----------------66
69-----------------66
63-----------------61
67-----------------65


I'd like to thank ocuk for the sample, but as far as I'm concerned those numbers are not worth the 3x price hike from AS5.
Thanks

tommytinkle, thanks for taking the time to test and post comments/results. Much appreciated

Thermal compound should be specified in volume vs weight as it leads to confusion in comparisons.

For example ICD7 Diamond weight is 1.5 gm or 7 carats - by volume approx 1/2 ml.

AS5 Silver weight is 3.5 gm - by volume approx. approx 1/2 ml.


Same volume same price - 6.99

You had the ICD24 for test which is approx 4x the AS5 amount.

Application amounts are different as AS5 is more liquid than ICD . you should be able to get 3-4 applications on a 30mm IHS with the ICD7 and 12 out of the 4.8 ICD24.

I do not know about about AS5 but as a general rule the more liquid compounds tend to bake or pump out and some have to be replaced every few months and for this reason a common OEM specification is a requirement/recommendation for a bulk loading of 90%+. The simple reason for this is that it is just harder to pump or bake out a more solid material than a more liquid retail type compound.

At xtremesystems I have a guy(123bob) with a 20 system farm folding @home who has run 2 years 24/7 overclocked with no change in temps or having to readjust his clock setting's for the period.

The unexpressed value here is the cost/time savings of not having to renew the mount every few months.

I always get a mix of customers as noted in the previous comments there are the performance people who are always pushing envelope on their systems and those that want best Value/Performance for the money.

Perihelion was introduced for the Value/Performance segment, performance wise @ 120W I only measure 1C difference between Perihelion and ICD and users in the first test groups have been getting an average of a couple of C over AS5.

Perihelion with aluminum oxide is 20% lighter than ICD so you get the same volume in a 4 gm tube of perihelion as you would in a 4.8 gm tube of ICD.

So from your comments you seem to be a value/performance end user, with Perihelion you get 4X the amount as AS5 for the same cost and may be worth consideration.

And to note the viscosity of the Perihelion is mostly the same as ICD for the same long term reliability issues as discussed.

Application

Maybe my application method has royally messed up my figures, if you all think it has I'll reapply it with the blob method and have another go?

Application can affect results from 1-20C but most are grouped in a range of 1-3 C. for optimal performance use our method. but other factors are more likely if you follow directions application is one thing that few screw up on but there are other factors that come into play.

Troubleshooting

 

[IC Diamond]

Technical/Troubleshooting Note:

As most experienced users understand that when troubleshooting thermal problems there are usually 3 areas of concern.

1.) Pressure
2.) Contact
3.) Application

Taking a thermal measurement on it's own is not enough without a relative basis of comparison. Application and use of thermal compound is a mechanical function though many electronically oriented people tend to attach little importance to mechanical measurements.

Every thermal compound has it's own unique ideal pressure/thermal performance curve. A highly liquid retail compound with great contact resistance will test well at low or moderate pressures as they hit their Bond line thickness (BLT) or average thickness relatively easily but since they are at optimum at these lower pressures adding more pressure fails to yield much of an improvement.

IC Diamond is of a much higher viscosity and has a very different pressure/ performance curve than a more liquid retail compound so at lower pressures and/or contact thermal results maybe equal or less. In paste reviews the major failure is in quantifying the mechanical aspects of what is being tested, are they @ 35lbs and 50% contact area? or 60lbs 60% contact? And how does that relate to multiple thermal/performance pressure curves of different compounds?

Note: 80% of sampled retail sinks were over 50lbs psi

Quantifying mechanical's is not realistic for the individual user but they get around that by observing multiple user results to mentally average a comparison unlike the individual anecdotal test they have a reference point(s) more or less like we are doing here providing samples for comparison.

We generated the attached charts Below from some forum user tests.

What they show is what most know already - that good C/P provides a good thermal result. What it also shows is that IC Diamond performance margins increase with over 50 psi force and with good contact margins are higher. Pressure is dominant and contact will increase with pressure.



Data point # 2 has weak pressure and poor contact resulting in a + 3.7C increase in temps over the liquid paste.

Data point # 10 with great contact and pressure shows a -5C improvement over the more liquid compound.

This is a nontrivial approx 9C spread and pretty well explains why people get different results.

Also observe Point # 6 it has a somewhat lower pressure but a higher contact hence the improved thermal

So to optimize your thermal result, apply enough compound, tighten your sink and do some lapping

 

[IC Diamond]

Does anyone know the best way of applying thermal paste to an exposed heat pipe cooler such as the titan fenrir?

Im guessing spreading it out with a credit card would maybe be the way to go? Otherwise a lot of paste will end up in the gaps between the heatpipes if just the pressure of the heatsink were used to spread.

I have not really looked at this extensively but my Australian reseller was kind enough to send me his application method.

Hi Andrew,

The way I have got the best results is like this.

Fill in the gaps between the Heatpipes and fins. Rub the IC Diamond in to the gaps very well to make sure there are no air pockets. ( Any air pockets or tiny bubbles between CPU and Cooler can greatly affect results.) Also warm up the HDT Cooler and the IC Diamond so they are easier to work with. This allows you to work the thicker compound into the gaps more effectively. Otherwise it can be a little hard to make it stay between the pipes and aluminium fins.

Then wipe off any excess leaving only the TIM between the heatpipes and aluminium fins and perhaps leaving a very slight haze over the copper of the heatpipes.

Then apply to HDT Cooler as you do with all other coolers, a pea sized blob on the CPU. Or the 2 thin lines on the aluminium fins. Try both and see which works best for your setup. The blob has worked best for me.

One last thing. Prior to application make sure the HSF and CPU are clean. To do this use Isopropyl Alcohol 90%+ pure (This is available from the chemist Drug store, and is very inexpensive.) or something like Arctic Clean and a lint free cloth or coffee filter paper. A clean HSF and CPU are very important for best performance. Good luck.



The thin lines were difficult to do as the IC Diamond is as thick as it is but can be done if the compound is warmed up well beforehand. I also found warming up the CPU with a hair dryer just before applying the IC Diamond helped get a more even spread when attaching the cooler. But you may not want to put that in instructions as it may seem a bit too much work for some people.

 

[IC Diamond]

i7 920 @ 4.0GHz, 1.32v, Dual Akasa Viper Megahalems.

Before Compound: Arctic Cooling MX-4
Ambient Temp: 21c
Idle Temp: 35c
Load Temp: 74c

IC Diamond
Ambient Temp: 22c
Idle Temp: 35c
Load Temp: 73c

Was expecting a bit more of a difference than that - it was a bit more viscous that I was anticipating though, perhaps I didn't do it right. I'll have to give it another go tomorrow, MX-4 is an awesome paste though.

Edit; Only gave it 30 mins - will try again tomorrowz o/

Thanks MooMoo444 for taking the time to test and post your results.

-2C adjusting for ambient and maybe another degree or two for pressure/contact and cure. You are in the rarefied region of compound performance where details make a difference.

GPU's from end user tests are a degree or 2 better than the CPU tests, a lttle more margin

We recommend 2 hours cure before taking a reading with maybe an overnight gain of of around .5 C. if pressure is adequate.

Compound is thick and on screw systems it is like re -torquing the head on your car run at load for 10 min and the re-tighten screws should help.

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?high=&m=681429&mpage=1#682642

 

[IC Diamond]

Updating some data this evening. These are end user test results from 17 different forums on test survey's/giveaway's like the one here. Not many MX samples available as only about 10% of of all samples are MX not many people use MX compounds. 10 samples cautiously indicates trends, 20 samples trend strengthens. Confidence level is pretty high once you get over 30 of what the average user result will be and will reasonably only change a couple of tenths of a degree C on the next couple of hundred sampled tests.

50 samples out so post your results

 

[IC Diamond]

Not a lot of Perihelion results to date counting on you people to beef up the results.

 

[IC Diamond]

I am not doing a good enough job on the Perihelion here. Perihelion is a real sleeper, we ran a forum giveaway with 100 IC Diamond and a 100 Perhelion in enduser testing was second only to IC Diamond by 1 C @ a much lower cost.

so what is a degree C worth? one of the reasons we do these giveaways/field surveys is to get user feedback on a number of issues to fine tune the product/application and marketing message any feedback would be appreciated

Somebody had a question about application of IC Diamond with a DTH saw this video where the guy does a decent Job

nVidia GTX 470 TIM Replacement Guide

Also came across a Stanbony IC Diamond Review - I wonder how the Joisey local accent sounds to you Brits.

As long as I am posting videos it's not complete without the IC Diamond song , another first I think as I can not find any other songs about thermal compound lol

Danielle sings IC Diamond

 

[IC Diamond]

Survey question

I am thinking that I might expand the giveaway to 100 tubes of ICD and 100 tubes Perihelion.

Question is, on a gentleman's agreement would you people post your before and after results? I have my doubts as it has been pretty light so far.

 

[IC Diamond]

Am I correct in saying that the only difference between IC Diamond 24 and IC Diamond 7 is the quantity (1.5 vs 4.8g)?

Carat = .2gm

Compound should be compared on volume not weight. Not sure why people call out weight maybe I will change to volume next time I do my labeling.

Perihelion @ 4 gm is/has the same volume as IC Diamond 4.8gm just under 2cc being 20% lighter.

AS5 is 1/2 cc weight is 3.5 gm so Perihelion and other compounds that use a good % of aluminum oxide can have as much as 4X the volume amount. ICD7 for example is 1/2CC same as AS5 3.5gm tube at less than 1/2 the weight. Suggested application amounts maybe different so use will vary.

 

[IC Diamond]

Thought it over and as I have gotten good returns on other giveaways in the UK, I think the first fizzled a bit with a lack of emphasis. So we will work on the gentleman's agreement - Free tube in exchange for posting before and after results.

100 Tubes of ICD24 & 100 tubes of IC Perihelion.

I will post the giveaway thread on January 9 in the evening, just need a few days to clear the decks and package them up for labeling.

 

[IC Diamond]

Lol you mean february 9?

lol Busy, running a month behind here - took a few days for somebody to catch it, yes Feb 9th it is

 

[IC Diamond]

lol, nasty rumor from our competitors

Post # 11 page 1 of this thread

Feels the same because particle size is probably close

Most thermal compounds are Liquid sandpaper or lapping compounds by definition.

Light gray compounds are usually/mostly made up of aluminum oxide.

Aluminum oxide is what they make sandpaper out of.....MOHS Hardness scale 9

Diamond on the MOHS hardness scale 10

Copper MOHS 3

To be abrasive you just have to be harder than the material to be cut.

Most thermal compounds have particle sizes in the range of 600 - 800 same as your 600 - 800 sandpaper

http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/scales/grit.html

If you are ambitious you can calculate cutting speeds and material removal between diamond the hardest (cubic boron nitride is actually harder than diamond) and the second hardest aluminum oxide, you will find a insignificant difference.

For the insignificant speed- distance traveled, light pressures, minuscule time slice You will not see any difference between the two under normal use.

Abrasives have to move to work,

For all compounds- if you are a habitual abuser who re-installs his sink 20 times a week or constantly rotates the sink under pressure then switch to something less abrasive like a zinc oxide compound .

 

[IC Diamond]

You can test it on your own, AS5 has aluminum oxide, the mx compounds Shin Etsu etc. are all abrasive.

Take an oxidized copper coin and try polishing for 20 seconds - they all should polish it up nicely and pretty well equally.