Oculus Rift

Soldato
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@Pottsey i have to ask, why on Earth are you even here?”
I love 3D games and have had a strong interest in 3D since the going on the first VR helmet 20+ years ago. I even have various different generations of 3D glasses and a 3D projector. VR is a strong interest of mine. I am not a VR hater or against VR. But I do think it has limitations and is only suitable for certain game types and that many headsets have a PPI that is to low to use.

It’s not about being anti VR it’s about showing a reasonable balanced view. With Melmac all I was doing was pointing out what he said was misleading and it was. I was only pointing out the flaw in his bias view. That doesn't mean I hate VR. Just look at how unfairly Andy was treated. He had the correct settings, had multiple play sessions over multiple games but Uncle Petey couldn’t accept his experience and so tried to paint a completely untrue and unfair picture to write off his comments.
 
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. Just look at how unfairly Andy was treated. He had the correct settings, had multiple play sessions over multiple games but Uncle Petey couldn’t accept his experience and so tried to paint a completely untrue and unfair picture to write off his comments.

Absolute crap... You're delusional.

I tried skyrim VR for 20 minuets and refunded it. It looks horrible, everything beyond a few feet away is blurred out and it made me feel sick.
 
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I've been playing Fallout 4 VR for the last week

Nice.

Been doing some of that myself, really getting in to it now. The mods are proving to be a minefield, but it looks ok and runs nice and smooth. I'm just hoping there's something out there that adds a few different tunes, diamond city radio plays the same five or six songs on repeat.
 
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But I do think it has limitations and is only suitable for certain game types and that many headsets have a PPI that is to low to use.

Which is fine- it's your view and you're entitled to that. Stating the subjective standpoint that "VR is not of acceptable quality, or suitable for certain game types" as fact, is however, incorrect. I play VR and it's perfectly acceptable to me. And many other thousands of users. Hell, DK2 was acceptable. If it hadn't been, CV1 would never have made it off the ground.

Uncle Petey couldn’t accept his experience and so tried to paint a completely untrue and unfair picture to write off his comments.

No, Petey presented a viewpoint that doesn't match yours. He never stated that his viewpoint was fact, merely that it was his subjective opinion.

You're using abductive reasoning and ending up with a fallacy, because you're ignoring the wealth of evidence to suggest there are plenty of happy (or even ecstatic) VR users in addition to those who are disappointed.

...Unless we are all in VR right now and you are some kind of digital deity. And I doubt that (but I'll listen if you have any evidence to present :D )

Why don't we stop the bickering and just accept that viewpoints differ? Neither is fact, but there is plenty of evidence to suggest that subjective opinions exist on both sides.
 
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Absolute crap... You're delusional.
That is a perfect example of what you have been doing throughout the thread and how your strong bias is affecting your posts.

“In Andy's case, his blanket absolute opinion is a kneejerk response based on ONE game that he tried briefly...”

But the wrong settings is just something you made up as he researched the correct settings and he played a number of games over multiple days. You are trying to make it sound like he only played 1 game for 20mins with the wrong settings so you can write off his views. What about that he had the correct settings, has played different games over different days and play sessions? Yes he only played skyrim for 20mins but that's not all he did. His views are not based on just 20mins in Skyrim with the wrong settings. His views are based on 20mins in Skyrim with the correct settings and other games over a period of weeks. Which paints a very different picture to what you are trying to show.
 
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Good morning, Pottsey.

I play Skyrim VR. If it wasn't the specific setting (not settings) I mentioned that caused him to say "everything beyond a few feet away is blurred out", then there was something else that was very wrong.

How about you back up your claims with quoted posts that mention these "weeks and many games and multiple sessions?" The only other game mentioned is Elite Dangerous, and I specifically talked about his experience with first person, full locomotion games.
He also said that he only recently got a Rift.

I'll make it easy. Here are all five of his posts in this thread.

My information is based on what he's actually said. I have no idea where you're getting your info from.

EDIT:
I'll also remind you that the main issue I had was with his statement that it's only suited to seated games, and that this opinion was based on his brief experience with one first person, full locomotion game that made him motion sick.
I also agreed with his other issues regarding the shortcomings with certain aspects of the game's VR implementation, as well as said that I understood where he was coming from in regards to things like FOV/Resolution etc.

As for my bias, I'll ask again, since you've avoided answering the first time.

Views that fall outside my bias? What is my bias?
The way you carry on, it would appear that my stance is apparently "VR is perfect OMG amazing and you can't say anything bad about it" etc, when the reality is that I've REPEATEDLY acknowledged that it's not perfect, it does have failings and that things could and will be improved, and that we are are having fun DESPITE that, because it can and does offer a great experience.

Aside from making **** up, are you going to continue to ignore everything that doesn't suit the false narrative you're now trying to push?
 
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Higher FOV, Better Resolution and Wireless would be great.
I think wireless won't come for ages though due to the cost. I think it'll be optional for a long while.
FOV and resolution is already here with the Pimax which I might jump to....


Honestly people who hate on VR or don't get it.. I just don't have time to convince them cos idgaf. The only issue I have is it will hold back VR if it gets a bad rap when its quite clearly god damn amazing.

Superhot VR >>> Any FPS
Firewall Zero Hour >>> any competitive online shooter
Resident Evil 7 >>>> any horror game
Robo Recall >>> any wave shooter
Beat Saber >>> any rhythm game
Skyrim VR >>>> Skyrim


Its already setting precedents. If people can't get over the resolution... then they're really in gaming more for eye candy than gaming experience.

Playing Fallout VR and crouching down and punching a radroach is sick.
had my psvr for about a year and tbh hardly used it but firewall zero has changed that completely and the only game ive played in the last month, i have not even turned my gaming pc on in that time, vr has been out for a while but with some of the games about now i think this is just the beginning
 
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“How about you back up your claims with quoted posts that mention these "weeks and many games and multiple sessions?" The only other game mentioned is Elite Dangerous, and I specifically talked about his experience with first person, full locomotion games.
He also said that he only recently got a Rift.”
You’re the one pushing a false narrative of 1 game with the wrong settings. The settings are something you made up, he clearly said he researched and had the correct settings. The low detail/blurred is caused by the low PPI of that headset and some types of FSAA can amplify the blurred effect. He has clearly tried the Rift multiple times from as early as shortly after it was released to more recently when he brought his own 2nd hand one. See post 6089.

It is very clear he tried different games over a 2 and a half year time frame. Yet you are pushing the narrative of 1 game briefly for 20mins and so his opinion doesn’t count.



“I'll also remind you that the main issue I had was with his statement that it's only suited to seated games, and that this opinion was based on his brief experience with one first person, full locomotion game that made him motion sick.”
Where did he say he only played 1 single first person game? Where did he say he only had 1 brief experience? Just because he gave up on Skyrim it doesn’t mean that is all he played. Your bias is pushing you to jump to faulty conclusions.

Do you really think someone who has played on a Rift at a friend’s house and owns a Rift themselves has only played 2 games one of which for only 20mins? While he didn’t list the games its clear he tried various flight Sims other then Elite and other games. To quote him “I know exactly how to setup the games properly.”

As for the statement the Rift is only suited to cockpit style games that is true for a lot of people. Not for everyone but a lot. A few weeks ago at a house warming party there was PSVR and around 90% of the people said they will only play the sitting games or where you stand but do not move about. I feel the same, not due to motion stickiness but those are the only ones that work for me.



“The god rays and low res break the immersion for me in most games right away as it did for skyrim.”
Clearly he played other games then Skyrim.

You doing the very thing you accuse me off. You are ignoring what doesn’t fit into your narrative and making things up.
 
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Soldato
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You’re the one pushing a false narrative of 1 game with the wrong settings. The settings are something you made up, he clearly said he researched and had the correct settings.
Did he confirm that he had the specific setting I mentioned turned off? No.
How am I making it up? It's a ****ing setting that results in THE EXACT ISSUE HE DESCRIBED FFS...

His research mentioned nothing but supersampling.Also, just because he thinks he had the correct settings, it doesn't make it so. That particular setting is easily missable.

The low detail/blurred is caused by the low PPI of that headset and some types of FSAA can amplify the blurred effect.

A certain level of blur perhaps, but nothing like what he described.
The PPI and 'some types of FSAA' don't result in that.

Do you have any actual experience with the game and the setting? I do.
I wanted to get a screen grab of the effect in question, but since I've upgraded to a 1080Ti, the setting does nothing in my case because it doesn't need to adapt the res due to the card being powerful enough to handle it all. Either that, or my modlist ini settings have disbled it.
I had a 980Ti before that, which is about the same as his 1070. You do the math.

It is very clear he tried different games over a 2 and a half year time frame. Yet you are pushing the narrative of 1 game briefly for 20mins and so his opinion doesn’t count
Really? He said he bought a Rift recently.
Where is it VERY CLEAR that he's had one for two and a half years?

Where did he say he only played 1 single first person game? Where did he say he only had 1 brief experience? Just because he gave up on Skyrim it doesn’t mean that is all he played. Your bias is pushing you to jump to faulty conclusions.

He mentioned nothing but that one game and then went to talk about how that kind of game isn't suitable for VR in his opinion. I asked what other in that genre he had played and received no answer.

I say what I say based on what he's said. Other people have said the same and he hasn't corrected any of us.
You are the one making false conclusions that suit you. What information do you have that makes you think you know better?

Do you really think someone who has played on a Rift at a friend’s house and owns a Rift themselves has only played 2 games one of which for only 20mins? While he didn’t list the games its clear he tried various flight Sims other then Elite and other games. To quote him “I know exactly how to setup the games properly.”

I didn't say he's only played two games. i said he only mentioned playing those titles and yes, it is fair to sassume that he's played other seated games due to his wording.
Regarding first person, full locomotion games, it isn't fair to assume that based on what he's said and given the direct questions that he was asked.

As for the statement the Rift is only suited to cockpit style games that is true for a lot of people. Not for everyone but a lot. A few weeks ago at a house warming party there was PSVR and around 90% of the people said they will only play the sitting games or where you stand but do not move about. I feel the same, not due to motion stickiness but those are the only ones that work for me.

Yeah? Who is arguing otherwise?
Like I, and others have said, it affects most of us to begin with and it's something that most learn to get over in time.


“The god rays and low res break the immersion for me in most games right away as it did for skyrim.”
Clearly he played other games then Skyrim.

See above.

Now please **** off and leave me alone. I'm tired of dealing with your crap and nobody wants to read all this.
I stand by my opinion that you're utterly delusional and I seriously can't be bothered with you anymore.

Good day, sir.
 
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“Did he confirm that he had the specific setting I mentioned turned off? No.
How am I making it up? It's a ****ing setting that results in THE EXACT ISSUE HE DESCRIBED FFS...”
When you mentioned dynamic resolution his response was he exactly setup the game properly. He also talked about experiencing the low res detail problem in games when he first used the Rift just over 2 years ago long before Skyrim VR came out. So it’s clearly not the setting you are talking about but the fact the headset PPI is too low for him. I have the same problem with the low PPI on the Rift.



“Really? He said he bought a Rift recently.
Where is it VERY CLEAR that he's had one for two and a half years?”
He said he played on his friends Rift starting around two and a half years ago. Then more recently brought his own and so has played multiple games over 2 years. Clearly it’s not me that is utterly delusional, you are so extremely bias you are blinded and can only see what you want to see so there is no point continuing this. Your narrative has been shown to be false and I am not going waste any more time on you.
 
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stfg.gif


You're confusing low res with the issue he had. It's not the same thing and I'm tired of explaining it to you.
You clearly don't know what the **** you're talking about.

As for the rest. Whatever. You keep telling yourself that. The only person you're convincing is yourself. I'm done.
 
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Heh.

Somebody is definitely in the wrong place, trying to spell it out to mainly a bunch of 30/40 somethings about limitations. Growing up in the 8bit era with luck of the draw games you were purchasing on the back of a screen shot in a magazine with a review written by a bunch of 16 year old's ****** around in an office all day. God awful early pc gamming with all the hassle of compatibility, extended memory, the DOS era. The dawn of online gamming with your £200+ phone bill every month, because you were addicted to going online every night playing a slide show game of counterstrike or TFC with your 150/200 ping that was tied in to the frame rate. Or better still the q2 clan 4v4 match you were looking forward to all week being ruined by people phone jacking out after 5 minutes.

Limitations, nah... VR, it's living the dream.
 

D3K

D3K

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Heh.

Somebody is definitely in the wrong place, trying to spell it out to mainly a bunch of 30/40 somethings about limitations. Growing up in the 8bit era with luck of the draw games you were purchasing on the back of a screen shot in a magazine with a review written by a bunch of 16 year old's ****** around in an office all day. God awful early pc gamming with all the hassle of compatibility, extended memory, the DOS era. The dawn of online gamming with your £200+ phone bill every month, because you were addicted to going online every night playing a slide show game of counterstrike or TFC with your 150/200 ping that was tied in to the frame rate. Or better still the q2 clan 4v4 match you were looking forward to all week being ruined by people phone jacking out after 5 minutes.

Limitations, nah... VR, it's living the dream.
Absolutely if you hold such a horrendous past as the standard to compare against today. You must feel like you're in the matrix. The majority of people hold the last best experience up as the standard. For plenty people it's not VR... yet.
 
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Guess it depends what you value. If it's outright resolution, no. If it's immersion, I can't see that anything touches VR.

The two are so different though that I see them as different forms of gaming, and comparisons seem a little pointless.
 
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Guess it depends what you value. If it's outright resolution, no. If it's immersion, I can't see that anything touches VR.

The two are so different though that I see them as different forms of gaming, and comparisons seem a little pointless.
It wont last as VR helms improve but for some style of games you can get better immersion with 3D glasses on a projector setup over VR helmets like the Rift.
 
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It wont last as VR helms improve but for some style of games you can get better immersion with 3D glasses on a projector setup over VR helmets like the Rift.

As someone who sank a lot into monitor and projector-based 3D I feel qualified enough to disagree. 3D is not VR, and the point of VR is not 3D. It's the feeling of being somewhere else. For me, stereoscopic 3D did nothing for immersion. It looked like 3D figures sitting in a monitor-sized shoebox.

And again, in my experience what immersion was there wasn't a single-digit percentage comparable to VR.
 

D3K

D3K

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As someone who sank a lot into monitor and projector-based 3D I feel qualified enough to disagree. 3D is not VR, and the point of VR is not 3D. It's the feeling of being somewhere else. For me, stereoscopic 3D did nothing for immersion. It looked like 3D figures sitting in a monitor-sized shoebox.

And again, in my experience what immersion was there wasn't a single-digit percentage comparable to VR.
I've had this discussion in other threads, but there isn't a VR game out that holds a candle to any of the most engrossing titles I've played on a flat screen. The content just isn't there bar a few whimsical experiences. There is immersion, but it is fleeting. Like looking at a kaleidoscope for the first time and being wowed. It soon wears off. Enthusiasm is further hampered by the tech. I would happily just potter about in there, but with everything mentioned (FOV, res, SDE, cabling, etc) it just feels like too much of a chore and a sub-standard experience to 2D.

If Pimax 5k/8k and wireless live up to the hype of the initial reviews it might be enough to get me interested, as long as it's readily available and supplied by UK retailers. But aside from the tech, VR really needs a genre-defining title of it's own. Sure there are hordes of fans of sims/wave shooters/rhythm games, but it needs something with a narrative, compelling gameplay, and a playthrough time of more than a few hours.
 
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I've had this discussion in other threads, but there isn't a VR game out that holds a candle to any of the most engrossing titles I've played on a flat screen.

I agree that as far as dedicated VR games go, there aren't any which match the scale or depth of the biggest and best 'pancake' games out there. This is simply due to the fact that sales of VR software aren't high enough to justify the expense of developing those sorts of games.

Oculus has had a strategy of investing in AAA VR games, which has paid off with games like Lone Echo (which though short is as high quality as any AAA pancake game out there), and games like the forthcoming Stormlands are very promising.

However there are a few VR conversions such as Fallout 4 VR and Skyrim VR which do have all the depth and scale of their 2D equivalents, so there are VR games out there which are as engrossing as 2D games. They may not be as quite as good from a VR interaction perspective as dedicated VR games, but the feeling of being inside the game world instead of watching it on a screen is incredibly immersive. Plus you really get a chance to appreciate all the detail put into the worlds as you can freely look around - it's amazing how much detail went into the ceilings in Skyrim for example. In 2D you rarely look up, but in VR it's natural to do so.
 
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